What steps can Christianity take to re-invent itself?

Home Forums Urantia Book General Discussions What steps can Christianity take to re-invent itself?

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 203 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #15258
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Vern wrote:  When you consider these three factors you will recognise the achievement was the combined result of pivotal spiritually motivated individuals in whose minds the living truth had gained the degree of registry to motivate them wholeheartedly in service to their fellows.
    In the meantime while we await pivotal individuals, we have personal work to do.  I recall the in-between years Jesus roamed the civilized world, before he began his public ministry.
    123:5:8   Jesus received his moral training and spiritual culture chiefly in his own home. He secured much of his intellectual and theological education from the chazan. But his real education — that equipment of mind and heart for the actual test of grappling with the difficult problems of life — he obtained by mingling with his fellow men. It was this close association with his fellow men, young and old, Jew and gentile, that afforded him the opportunity to know the human race. Jesus was highly educated in that he thoroughly understood men and devotedly loved them.
    I think it behooves us to follow suit, to mingle with our fellows, to get to know the human race to the best of our ability.  And this is personal work.  But I’m of the opinion that the steps Christianity needs to take to re-invent itself is wholly dependent upon people – individual faith-sons as individuals.  How can Christianity evolve otherwise?  By decrees of the Pope?  Even the interpretations of the Pope are at rock bottom derived from the pressures of modernity in light of the honest examination of truth by the people at rock bottom.  One person at a time.
    #15263
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant

    Look to the upper right hand area of the post you are looking at and you will see these buttons: Reply, Report, Quote.

    4. Click on “Quote”.

    Thank you very much for teaching me this.

    Another thing I learned today is how to use the toggle button to reveal the second row of tools in the toolbar.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #15265
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant
    Mara wrote: But I’m of the opinion that the steps Christianity needs to take to re-invent itself is wholly dependent upon people – individual faith-sons as individuals. How can Christianity evolve otherwise?

    I agree.

    Mara, I don’t know if you participate in the Urantia facebook groups, Rick Warren does. I’ve also initiated this topic on the Urantia1 facebook group, here’s what I posted in response to a question from Colter, one of the group active there. It’s along the lines of what you wrote.
    No doubt you’ve been sharing with your Christian fellows to a great extent and have gained much experience. Having something worthwhile to contribute is one thing, doing something of lasting value requires tolerance, wisdom and patience. Our lifetime is a very short measure, knowing The Urantia Book speaks of thousand year time-frames. We are definitely pioneers and should consider our service as that of trailblazers.We speak to each other to gain a greater understanding of what motivates the other, to discover values of the person we meet, to make a friend. Being friendly and approachable is the lubricant of communication. I’m sure as a Urantia Book student, you are becoming more skilled at applying techniques of friendly non-judgmental dialogue. More effectively practising Jesus’ method, “Never attack their errors or even mention the flaws” in their teachings/thinking.

    In conversations you have had with your fellow Christian believers, have you discovered any recurring topical sticking points?

    Here are a few I’ve come across:
    1) The sacred book syndrome, (Bible is the word of God).
    2) Jesus died for our sins (the atonement doctrine).
    3) All of us are born sinners (already damned—evil).
    4) Only Christians will be saved (chosen people syndrome).
    5) Jesus was born to a virgin (abandonment of reason, acceptance of superstition/miracles in the face of scientific fact)
    6) Insistence on the fiat of Creation (denial of the natural course of evolution).

    I’m sure you could easily add to this list, as we are told it’s easy to see the problems, harder to articulate solutions. Solutions must be heartfelt, service motivated “fruits-of-the-spirit” powered by love. Love, after all, is simply the desire to do good to others.

    #15270
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    One of the habits Christianity should break is the habit of politicizing religion and religious-cizing politics.  In the USA religion has gone into politics. And politicians use Christian religious views overtly in their various politicking practices. 

    P.2085 – §5 But there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master. And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment.

     

    How likely in this day and age are Christian religions willing to borrow the best in their neighbors’ living spiritual faith, rather than denouncing them?  (P.1012 – §4 ) We won’t be erasing differences, but we can rejoice together in the worship of our Heavenly Father.

     

    (P.1012 – §5) All these religions have arisen as a result of man’s variable intellectual response to his identical spiritual leading. They can never hope to attain a uniformity of creeds, dogmas, and rituals–these are intellectual; but they can, and some day will, realize a unity in true worship of the Father of all, for this is spiritual, and it is forever true, in the spirit all men are equal.

    #15286
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant
    Mara wrote: One of the habits Christianity should break is the habit of politicizing religion and religious-cizing politics.
    Yes indeed. The spiritual focus must prevail an replace the perverse distraction of materialism.
    More than that, believers must be united and held together by the love they have in common. Disunity between believers is inexcusable.
    It is just because the gospel of Jesus was so many-sided that within a few centuries students of the records of his teachings became divided up into so many cults and sects. This pitiful subdivision of Christian believers results from failure to discern in the Master’s manifold teachings the divine oneness of his matchless life. But someday the true believers in Jesus will not be thus spiritually divided in their attitude before unbelievers. Always we may have diversity of intellectual comprehension and interpretation, even varying degrees of socialization, but lack of spiritual brotherhood is both inexcusable and reprehensible. [Paper170:5.20, page 1866:3]
    Mara, it’s been good to expand upon ideas arising from this topic with you. Wonder if others on this Forum find this topic as interesting?
    #15287
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Vern wrote:  More than that, believers must be united and held together by the love they have in common.
    I belong to a non-denominational prayer circle in my community.  We meet once a week for an hour.  The basic religion is Christian, though one member always mentions she was raised Catholic and converted to Judaism.  In general participants recognize that each one of us is religiously imbued with the traditions of one of the mainstream religions, though Islam is not represented.  The person who leads the group assumed leadership right off the bat when we (she and I) formed the group about six months ago.  She is a natural leader.
    A few weeks ago she assigned someone to lead in her stead, as she was unable to attend that week.  The new leader prepared a plan in advance.  She had an idea and a plan.  Undaunted by what happened that morning, she carried out her plan most lovingly.  She brought three candles, a rose, a bell, a stopwatch and short script.  She said we are going to pray for each other today; we are going to go around the circle and the person on your left will stand behind you and put a hand on your shoulder; together we will silently pray for healing for you for two minutes; when I  ring the bell we will say together “Thank you God for your mercy and healing love.”
    Immediately, one one the members balked and staunchly refused to participate in the praying.  Her husband did participate – good for him.  She was free to leave the room, but stayed throughout, though she would not participate in any part of what took place then or later.  There was a cloud of tension and agitation over our small group that morning, because of the overt reactions of one person.  The tension is now a part of our group memory, and it is an unpleasant memory.
    In the aftermath, emails of criticism went around and among several participants.  The end result was that the brave leader who dared to do something different in our prayer circle bowed out and she no longer attends.  It is a great loss to us and I miss her deeply.
    195:10:14   It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility.
    #15288
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant
    Mara wrote: I belong to a non-denominational prayer circle in my community. We meet once a week for an hour.
    Thanks for sharing the experiences you’ve had with this group of friends. Sad that the harmony has been disrupted in the instance you’ve described. Tolerance grows as friendships do.
    We are attempting to convey to our fellow Christian believers, the significance of the drawing power of “spiritual unity” where it is not necessary to think alike to be kindred spirits. Recognition of brotherhood under the Fatherhood of God is inclusive of diversity.

    SPIRITUAL UNITY

    One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, “Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?” When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: “James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity — and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.” [Paper141:5.1, page 1591:6]

    We are family, our social harmony must grow out of the fact of sonship, our spiritual hopes are identical. All of us share the same origin and are striving to achieve the same destiny. Before God there is equal opportunity, freedom of choice is a universe reality. The door is open, let all who will, come.

    #15333
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Vern wrote:“spiritual unity”
    You point is well taken, but spiritual unity lost in Christianity’s formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and I would include materialism and ironically, the denial of some discoveries of science.  Spiritual unity is lost in sectarianism.  Christianity looses in it’s fear of other great religions, and looses in it’s prediction of the end of the world when Jesus comes back and makes the world a paradise place.
    (P.2083 – §5)  Christianity has dared to lower its ideals before the challenge of human greed, war-madness, and the lust for power; but the religion of Jesus stands as the unsullied and transcendent spiritual summons, calling to the best there is in man to rise above all these legacies of animal evolution and, by grace, attain the moral heights of true human destiny.
    (P.2083 – §6)  Christianity is threatened by slow death from formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and other nonspiritual trends. The modern Christian church is not such a brotherhood of dynamic believers as Jesus commissioned continuously to effect the spiritual transformation of successive generations of mankind.
    P.2083 – §7 So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice. The stream of modern Christianity drains many an ancient pagan swamp and many a barbarian morass; many olden cultural watersheds drain into this present-day cultural stream as well as the high Galilean tablelands which are supposed to be its exclusive source.
    Even some non-Christians believe the end-times are here and happening now.  But these ideas are not new.
    (P.1500 – §2) About one hundred years before the days of Jesus and John a new school of religious teachers arose in Palestine, the apocalyptists. These new teachers evolved a system of belief that accounted for the sufferings and humiliation of the Jews on the ground that they were paying the penalty for the nation’s sins.  They fell back onto the well-known reasons assigned to explain the Babylonian and other captivities of former times. But, so taught the apocalyptists, Israel should take heart; the days of their affliction were almost over; the discipline of God’s chosen people was about finished; God’s patience with the gentile foreigners was about exhausted. The end of Roman rule was synonymous with the end of the age and, in a certain sense, with the end of the world. These new teachers leaned heavily on the predictions of Daniel, and they consistently taught that creation was about to pass into its final stage; the kingdoms of this world were about to become the kingdom of God. To the Jewish mind of that day this was the meaning of that phrase–the kingdom of heaven–which runs throughout the teachings of both John and Jesus. To the Jews of Palestine the phrase “kingdom of heaven” had but one meaning: an absolutely righteous state in which God (the Messiah) would rule the nations of earth in perfection of power just as he ruled in heaven–“Your will be done on earth as in heaven.”
    #15351
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Mara wrote:  P.2083 – §7 So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice.
    What will it take for so-called Christianity to lower its volume to a whisper in the social, political, economic and cultural arenas of human life?  Why doesn’t so-called Christianity look to Jesus and the life he lived that we each become inspired by his life and aim for the best which always pertains to “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” (1:0:3)
    196:1:3   To “follow Jesus” means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master’s life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.
    Just the other day in prayer circle the general consensus was that we are in end-times.  To these sincere Christians and one convert-to-Judaism, the concept of end-times explains all the turmoil, the wars, the  diseases, the problems and afflictions of the world today.  Period.  One person said, “We know who is behind ll of it,” meaning the devil by implication.  Someone asked, ” Where did wars start?”  I said, well, look at Cain and Able.  I then asked this: Cain went to the land of Nod and got himself a wife – Who were those people?  One person said she always wondered about that.  Were there people here before Adam and Eve?
    #15371
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant
    Mara wrote: Christianity looses in its fear of other great religions, and looses in its prediction of the end of the world when Jesus comes back and makes the world a paradise place.
    Christians are suffering the same delusion as the Jews with their endless search for a Messiah in this fairy story of rescue without need to do anything except pray and sway with arms extended.
    To make spiritual progress entails display of fruits of the spirit, sincerity and tolerance manifested in loving service to our fellows.
    That said, I wanted to draw attention to one conceptual step that is required to take Christianity to the next level and is is somewhat related to the prevailing attitude of miracle-mindedness surrounding Jesus’ promise to return.
    Just as there have been evolutionary steps to move from an angry God of vengeance to a fatherly God of love, we still tend to athropomorphise deity. What Christianity has achieved is the highest anthropomorphism that man can ever conceive.

    The concept of a semihuman and jealous God is an inevitable transition between polytheism and sublime monotheism. An exalted anthropomorphism is the highest attainment level of purely evolutionary religion. Christianity has elevated the concept of anthropomorphism from the ideal of the human to the transcendent and divine concept of the person of the glorified Christ. And this is the highest anthropomorphism that man can ever conceive. [Paper5:4.9, page 67:7]

    Christianity must discover the religion of Jesus to move beyond its present indulgence in the super-person of “the glorified Christ.”

    The Christian concept of God is an attempt to combine three separate teachings:

    1. The Hebrew concept — God as a vindicator of moral values, a righteous God.

    2. The Greek concept — God as a unifier, a God of wisdom.

    3. Jesus’ concept — God as a living friend, a loving Father, the divine presence.

    It must therefore be evident that composite Christian theology encounters great difficulty in attaining consistency. This difficulty is further aggravated by the fact that the doctrines of early Christianity were generally based on the personal religious experience of three different persons: Philo of Alexandria, Jesus of Nazareth, and Paul of Tarsus. [Paper5:4.14, page 68:2]

    Into this composite Christian theology the “glorified Christ” has  become a liability, a barrier to progress, a stigma of divisiveness, a source of spiritual pride, the height of human arrogance, a root of human selfishness in generating misguided notions of smug superiority in those considering themselves “saved.”

    Christianity can be humble. A virtue sure to reap benefits as it turns to the Religion of Jesus in place of the religion about Jesus.

     In the study of the religious life of Jesus, view him positively. Think not so much of his sinlessness as of his righteousness, his loving service. Jesus upstepped the passive love disclosed in the Hebrew concept of the heavenly Father to the higher active and creature-loving affection of a God who is the Father of every individual, even of the wrongdoer. [Paper 5:4.15, page 68:3]

    #15419
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Vern wrote:  .Christianity must discover the religion of Jesus. . .
    Isn’t Christianity satisfied with its status quo?  Have you any ideas how “Christianity” can discover the religion of Jesus?
    Our world is disadvantaged due to Lucifer’s folly and to Eve’s impatience.  And the adjudication of Lucifer’s machinations only recently have begun,  (67:4:7)   The missteps of Adam and Eve were errors of judgment, not the sin of conscious and deliberate rebellion. (76:5:1)  They were demoted to the status of mortals on Urantia.  But our world is tremendously advantaged by the fact and truth of the self-bestowal on our world of Michael, the Creator Son of our universe! and his subsequent bestowing of his Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, the spirit of Michael on Urantia.  Wow!  What an advantage we have!  Is our world now more difficult than ever in its history?  Do the problems and obstacles now seem more insuperable and beyond our solution in our time in history?  Adam and Eve were certainly discouraged by what they found when they got here about 38,000 years ago. (74:0:1)  Their knowledge and experience was superior to the primitives with whom they were to help uplift.  They were superior beings.
    We, who are trying to promote the teachings of the UB, are of the same cloth as our fellows on our planet.  We are not of the same cloth as the Material Sons and Daughters.  But Jesus is of the same cloth as are we, as he was born of a woman and lived as one of us.  The Creator of our universe who lived a human life 2,000 years ago! Wow!  Now we have the teachings of the UB – 60 years old – the teachings of Jesus.  But we are informed in the UB that we are a full dispensation behind, and we can learn more about this by studying post Adamic man in Paper 52.  For example:
    52:3:10   The postAdamic epoch is the dispensation of internationalism. With the near completion of the task of race blending, nationalism wanes, and the brotherhood of man really begins to materialize. Representative government begins to take the place of the monarchial or paternal form of rulership. The educational system becomes world-wide, and gradually the languages of the races give way to the tongue of the violet people. Universal peace and co-operation are seldom attained until the races are fairly well blended, and until they speak a common language.
    They say, “Your world is a full dispensation and more behind the average planetary schedule.” ( 52:3:6) We’re behind, even though our Creator Son bestowed himself here!  But his bestowal was to the benefit the individual to inspire him to go in partnership with his fellows to help solve social, economic and political problems, but not in the name of one’s religion.
    (99:3:3) The religionist is not unsympathetic with social suffering, not unmindful of civil injustice, not insulated from economic thinking, neither insensible to political tyranny. Religion influences social reconstruction directly because it spiritualizes and idealizes the individual citizen. Indirectly, cultural civilization is influenced by the attitude of these individual religionists as they become active and influential members of various social, moral, economic, and political groups.
    99:3:15   Religionists, as a group, must never concern themselves with anything but religion, albeit any one such religionist, as an individual citizen, may become the outstanding leader of some social, economic, or political reconstruction movement.
    Is there such a critter as a religious reconstructionist?
    #15431
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant
    Mara wrote:Is there such a critter as a religious reconstructionist?
    Are we speaking of the next John the Baptist? Perhaps not, for such a title would imply an exclusively spiritual mission.
    The leadership of individual religionists in pivotal positions of social influence seem to be the realm of the Seraphic Planetary Government in the co-ordinate activities of the United Midwayers of Urantia in their activities related to the Reserve Corps of Destiny.
    Religionists, as a group, must never concern themselves with anything but religion, albeit any one such religionist, as an individual citizen, may become the outstanding leader of some social, economic, or political reconstruction movement. [Paper 99:3:15, page 1089:7]
    We have within our ranks the potential movers and shakers of the future, religionists, rightly must remain spiritually focussed on values, this leaves them primed to accept practical social evolution when is it presented by those individuals who articulate reform based on ideals, vision and values.
    Consider the power of musician to transform a planet?
    …But be not discouraged; some day a real musician may appear on Urantia, and whole peoples will be enthralled by the magnificent strains of his melodies. One such human being could forever change the course of a whole nation, even the entire civilized world. It is literally true, “melody has power a whole world to transform.” Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits. Harmony is the speech of Havona. [Paper 44:1.15, page 500:6]
    #15445
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant

    In these accelerated times of applied reason and scientific discovery, thinking men and women are no longer satisfied by religion which is philosophically inconsistent. Faith is totally compatible with scientific enquiry, perfectly reasonable.

    Modern man is adequately self-conscious of religion, but his worshipful customs are confused and discredited by his accelerated social metamorphosis and unprecedented scientific developments. Thinking men and women want religion redefined, and this demand will compel religion to re-evaluate itself[Paper 92:7.13, page 1013:8]

    The pace of change has accelerated in this Material Comfort Era which we inhabit, therefore greater is the need to seek the stability of enduring spiritual values, the province of religion.

    Modern man is confronted with the task of making more readjustments of human values in one generation than have been made in two thousand years. And this all influences the social attitude toward religion, for religion is a way of living as well as a technique of thinking[Paper 92:7.14, page 1013.9]

    Faith does not shackle the creative imagination,

    neither does it maintain an unreasoning prejudice

    towards the discoveries of scientific investigation

     

     

    #15446
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant

    Humiliation and renunciation are debasing and at odds with the dignity of sonship as taught by Jesus. Christianity would do well to extoll the virtue of self mastery in place of demeaning self denial.

    …it became the custom to forgo many forms of physical pleasure, especially of a sexual nature. ([Paper 89:3.1, page 976:3]  

    Property was regarded as a spiritual handicap. These notions of the spiritual dangers of material possession were widespreadly entertained in the times of Philo and Paul, and they have markedly influenced European philosophy ever since.

    However, in these modern secular times where material comfort has become the goal of life more value is placed on earning capacity and unfortunately, has given rise to a culture of greed.

    Poverty was just a part of the ritual of the mortification of the flesh which, unfortunately, became incorporated into the writings and teachings of many religions, notably Christianity. Penance is the negative form of this ofttimes foolish ritual of renunciation. But all this taught the savage self-control, and that was a worth-while advancement in social evolution. Self-denial and self-control were two of the greatest social gains from early evolutionary religion. Self-control gave man a new philosophy of life; it taught him the art of augmenting life’s fraction by lowering the denominator of personal demands instead of always attempting to increase the numerator of selfish gratification. [Paper 89:3.3, page 976:5]

    Materialistic society without the stabilising influence of religion has made a run on increasing “the numerator of selfish gratification.”

    Life is meant to be enjoyable with rewards both physical and spiritual, “moderation eventuates in charm.”

    Someday man should learn how to enjoy liberty without license, nourishment without gluttony, and pleasure without debauchery. Self-control is a better human policy of behavior regulation than is extreme self-denial. [Paper 89:3.7, page 977:2]

     

    #15449
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant

    Woman is the moral standard bearer, spiritual leader, of society and Christianity would benefit greatly by elevating women to a equal status with men. To repair the lowly estate that Paul initially, and Christianity subsequently, unfortunately placed women in.

    …Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind.… [Paper 84:6.4, page 938:8]

    We are informed Paul belonged to a cult which renounced sexual relations with women and as a result of his own self-denial his personal views became attached to Christian doctrine. We are aware of the sad legacy that has resulted from this the male dominated “celibate” clergy with little appreciation of the importance of marriage and consequent family life.

     It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of “saints.” This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world’s great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: “It is good for a man not to touch a woman.” “I would that all men were even as I myself.” “I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I.” Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus’ gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, “I speak this by permission and not by commandment.” But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society’s veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples.[Paper89:3.6, page 977:1] 

    I smile when I think of Paul and read about the compensation for deficiencies experienced in a mortal life on the first mansion world. Was Paul a person of low sex drive or was he simply more comfortable in the company of men?

    Biological deficiencies were largely made up on the first mansion world. There defects in planetary experiences pertaining to sex life, family association, and parental function were either corrected or were projected for future rectification among the Material Son families on Jerusem. [Paper 47:4.7, page 535.3]

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 203 total)

Login to reply to this topic.

Not registered? Sign up here.