-
Posts
-
Bradly wrote:The “movement” is a social problem. Very interesting.
I didn’t mean to imply that about the movement. But some people will go to their grave with their underware in a twist over their grievances of the past and the way it all went down. Perhaps they have failed to adapt. I’ve adapted. If I can, others can too and maybe they have. Who knows? Have to go forward from where we are.
The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability — even to the heights of God-consciousness. 130:4:7
Makes me think of the secular progressive. They want progress without religion and ethics. Aint gonna happen. However whenever the topic comes up the idea that ethics and morals are associated with religion will make the SP cringe into a defensive mode and this is likely related to the idea of going to church, a traditional thing. If only the idea of morals and ethics that arise from their personal experience with the indwelling God could be made clear I think that real progress could happen. Until then the SP will hope for only political change without direction, change for the sake of change. I really see this energy as a fundamental spiritual influence at work but not recognized.
There are many people out there that only need this simple and very logical personal approach to religion, ethics and morals in order to begin making real progress. It seems so simple to me but how to make that happen is likely more influenced by what has been said about how we as individuals live our lives.
Bradly wrote:The “movement” is a social problem. Very interesting. Mara: “I didn’t mean to imply that about the movement.”
It’s not your implication, it’s a statement of a relationship condition by text quote!! I’m a little twisted in some ways and I just cracked up when I read that quote, as I do with so many others too….I think the humor in the UB is a deep current running throughout.
Now, a problem is, to me, a formula or equation of many variables with a solution…if one can work the equation. Since each person is so unique and the group dynamic so dependent upon this uniqueness….I certainly think any group of 3 or more is indeed a social problem of great potential….and the more individuals within any group, the more potential. But in the problem of group dynamics, every addition or subtraction of any one personality completely changes that potential…and the equation variable set and the relationship of that set of variables….fluid dynamics of individuals in group association deliver a constant state of change or flux – it’s never really stable or predictable.
Learning how to build consensus, rather than majority rule decision making, is critical to a functional and directional group dynamic that seeks harmony and unity as a shared ideal. There should be no minority left, ideally, after consensus building….an art form really….a social art form that can help solve every social “problem” of association. All voices are heard and considered, votes are often tabled for further reflection, compromises reached, egos self constrained, and a dedication to process and outcome is shared…..and decisions are reached with the support of the entire team/community…..not full agreement but with consensus and best efforts to achieve common goals, and succeed with group-selected strategies, tactics, and timing.
But that’s a group. What about an entire community or groups of groups? The bigger the number, the greater the “social problem”. It seems humanity has much yet to learn in such a challenge. It is far easier for any size group to agree on the desired outcome than on the best strategies and tactics to achieve that outcome.
Really enjoying the conversation. Thanks to all.
Some useful terms and definitions within any “movement”:
Collaboration
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Collaboration is working with others to do a task and to achieve shared goals.[1] It is a recursive[2] process where two or more or organizations work together to realize shared goals, (this is more than the intersection of common goals seen in co-operative ventures, but a deep, collective determination to reach an identical objective[by whom?][original research?]) — for example, an endeavor[3][4] that is creative in nature[5]—by sharing knowledge, learning and building consensus. Most collaboration requires leadership, although the form of leadership can be social within a decentralized and egalitarian group.[6] In particular, teams that work collaboratively can obtain greater resources, recognition and reward when facing competition for finite resources.[7] Collaboration is also present in opposing goals exhibiting the notion of adversarial collaboration, though this is not a common case for using the word.
Structured methods of collaboration encourage introspection of behavior and communication.[6] These methods specifically aim to increase the success of teams as they engage in collaborative problem solving. Forms, rubrics, charts and graphs are useful in these situations to objectively document personal traits with the goal of improving performance in current and future projects.
Consensus decision-making
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Consensus decision-making is a group decision-making process that seeks the consent of all participants. Consensus may be defined professionally as an acceptable resolution, one that can be supported, even if not the “favourite” of each individual. Consensus is defined by Merriam-Webster as, first, general agreement, and second, group solidarity of belief or sentiment. It has its origin in the Latin word cōnsēnsus (agreement), which is from cōnsentiō meaning literally feel together.[1] It is used to describe both the decision and the process of reaching a decision. Consensus decision-making is thus concerned with the process of deliberating and finalizing a decision, and the social and political effects of using this process.
Alternative to common decision-making practices:
Consensus decision-making is an alternative to commonly practised adversarial decision-making processes.[5] Robert’s Rules of Order, for instance, is a process used by many organizations. The goal of Robert’s Rules is to structure the debate and passage of proposals that win approval through majority vote. This process does not emphasize the goal of full agreement. Critics of Robert’s Rules believe that the process can involve adversarial debate and the formation of competing factions. These dynamics may harm group member relationships and undermine the ability of a group to cooperatively implement a contentious decision.
Consensus decision-making attempts to address the problems of both Robert’s Rules of Order and top-down models. Proponents claim that outcomes of the consensus process include:[3][6]
Better Decisions: Through including the input of all stakeholders the resulting proposals may better address all potential concerns.
Better Implementation: A process that includes and respects all parties, and generates as much agreement as possible sets the stage for greater cooperation in implementing the resulting decisions.
Better Group Relationships: A cooperative, collaborative group atmosphere can foster greater group cohesion and interpersonal connection.Our unseen friends, celestial helpers or whatever you want to call them do try to bring people together to accomplish a particular project.
39:3:5 Social architects do everything within their province and power to bring together suitable individuals that they may constitute efficient and agreeable working groups on earth; and sometimes such groups have found themselves reassociated on the mansion worlds for continued fruitful service. But not always do these seraphim attain their ends; not always are they able to bring together those who would form the most ideal group to achieve a given purpose or to accomplish a certain task; under these conditions they must utilize the best of the material available.
Me: So then, it would seem to me that the “movement” based on an Epochal Revelation would be on the radar and in the game plan for our unseen friends. My guess is we mortals muck up their best efforts due to our immaturities and egoistic natures as material minded and attached tadpoles. But our failures do not define nor preclude the work of celestials either. I think the leadership authority discussed earlier is one of those divine inputs to help counterbalance mortal frailties. It sounds above like the social architects are busy with group dynamics….bringing together effective collaborators….team building. Peace.
Spiritual unity and diversity of belief are not mutually exclusive. Spiritual unity demands unity of spirit feelings. These spirit feelings too deep for words are shared with both those who are involved in religions of authority, as well as those like me who haven’t joined one.
155:6:9 [#4]
The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience — uniformity of destiny — making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration.It is hard for me to isolate the “Urantia movement” from a view I have from the larger global perspective. Many, many people working within religions of authority are fruitful in loving service and merciful ministry to others. Such service and ministry are surely the result of spirit feelings too deep for words.It is hard for me to isolate the “Urantia movement” from a view I have from the larger global perspective. Many, many people working within religions of authority are fruitful in loving service and merciful ministry to others. Such service and ministry are surely the result of spirit feelings too deep for words.
That is true, but religions of authority are fearful of the Urantia Book. Education could ease some of that fear. But as long as the Urantia Book is associated with channeling spirits, aliens and new world orders, fear by the rank and file religious communities will continue unabated.
Part of the problem is the manner in which the text was received. It lends itself to fear and kooks. I’m sure the early Christians had similar problems. The whole idea of someone coming back from the dead, walking around talking to people, popping up out of nowhere for weeks, and finally ascending to the heavens, must have scared the bejeebers out of a lot of people. It also fostered a whole variety of kooks, not unlike the Urantia Book problem. The “end of the worlders” went viral. Channelers of Jesus, prophets, sorcerers who raised the dead and magicians who could make donkeys speak were on every corner. Christianity eventually conquered old fears by absorbing pagan religions and then went on to create their very own brand new terroristic fears.
Can the Urantia movement absorb current religions? I don’t think so, and it certainly should not foster new fears either. That being said, I think one of the biggest problems the movement has today is fear: fear of itself, fear of its own members, fear of error or failure and fear of public opinion. The book does have its crusaders but they are, for the most part, random and unorganized. If education is going to be the new crusade, then perhaps it should be a bit more organized, with generalized guidelines and goals, without being dogmatic or creating infallible doctrines. (Not sure how to go about that though.) We are told that the Sethite method of education was superb and has never been surpassed (76:3.10). Even Melchizedek organized his schools at Salem after the Sethite method (93:3.1). Not that the movement needs priests, but it does need dynamic educators who are also knowledgable and respectful of other religions.
Can the Urantia movement absorb current religions?
Personally, I do not think readers are trying to absorb current religions. I do think some are trying to lift them up by being involved there. And of course some people, even UB readers, benefit from belonging to a worshipful group of religionists. I wouldn’t hold my breath while waiting for religions to get upgraded or to update themselves.
Fear is an enslaver. Why worry about someone’s fear of the UB? That is their problem, not mine.
142:0:2 [#4]The first day in Jerusalem Jesus called upon his friend of former years, Annas, the onetime high priest and relative of Salome, Zebedee’s wife. Annas had been hearing about Jesus and his teachings, and when Jesus called at the high priest’s home, he was received with much reserve. When Jesus perceived Annas’s coldness, he took immediate leave, saying as he departed: “Fear is man’s chief enslaver and pride his great weakness; will you betray yourself into bondage to both of these destroyers of joy and liberty?” But Annas made no reply. The Master did not again see Annas until the time when he sat with his son-in-law in judgment on the Son of Man.Can the Urantia movement absorb current religions?
My opinion is that, eventually and given sufficient generations, that the Urantia movement can indeed absorb almost every variety of religionist….but not any institutional creed/doctrine. The Urantia movement, in total, will never be, simply can never become a singular religious institution. Not saying it hasn’t and won’t continue to spawn some multiples of group religious forms and congregations….it will likely do so.
But the text itself, if actually read and believed, makes no provision for any authoritarian social religion by the teachings within the UB. However, we are several centuries into the devolution or dissolution of such a central authority for creed and dogma in the Christian “movement”. And this, I believe, is an orchestrated reality designed specifically for and in preparation of the gift of the fifth epochal revelation we hold today. This is the moment, the very precise moment at the disenfranchisement of many religionists and upon the cusp of the digital world still to come, that I think this gift was made purposefully. I have always rejected the notion that this is some form of “emergency” intervention. It is, rather, an evolutionary response to conditions “on the ground”, very fertile soil, for this seed of truth to take root and flourish, at this historic moment when religion is being viewed, more and more, by religionists as a personal experience and expression.
There is no strategic or tactical need for or benefit from absorbing other religions. No religion is true religion except as it encourages and feeds the individual experience of faith, truth, beauty, and goodness. It seems obvious to me that much of the world, especially the Christian world right now (but the Muslims awaken to this reality to some degree….perhaps and especially because of the rise of basic human rights and women’s place as equal in the eyes of God), is being taught by the Spirit of Truth that the only real religion is within, by each and between each and our God, and thereby an expanding notion of “neighbor” and “citizen” is expanding now like never before in our history.
I think the movement need only remain true to the teachings, individually and by associative groups, and remain available to an ever growing audience of these believers who hear the teachings of the 4th restated to them individually and also, then, come to the 5th. And to remain available as a source of text and a source of educational opportunities of that text discovered by individuals over the centuries to come. Every prior epochal revelation was educationally grounded and centered. Even the Jesusonian gospel is so simple….God as parent, us as children related by source and destiny. The gospel of the 5th is no more complex, although the facts presented include those higher teachings reserved for special students by the prior 4 epochals. All we have is a primer text book on the organization of the heavens….and the Jesusonian gospel re-presented with more details related to the spirit circuitry within us each and all in the family of creation.
There is no “do this” or “go there” or “say that” of any importance in the UB for doctrines and creeds and ceremonies and priests to hold to or raise up as “proof” of worthiness and salvation. By the fruits you will know and only by the fruits can any know. Fear will only subside as knowledge is gained and familiarity with the actual teachings in the text are known. Afraid of what? God within? Religious leaders live in fear and rule by fear and it is that reality that leads their flocks to other pastures and folds that offer nothing to fear….except fear itself.
May the movement find a way to remain free from fear and to welcome all who will….to come. In their own way and in their own time. History is obviously trending to the reality of personal religious experience and expression. What might that change, which pre-dates the UB by centuries, bring to bear upon planetary progress, especially with this new salt, leaven, and mustard seed that is the Urantia Book?? Exciting to contemplate the possibilities. May we exercise restraint and patience and allow the celestials to do what they do as they do it in the time frame they will do it…..advancing the world through the mortal epochs to come. Peace. Thanks to all.
If education is going to be the new crusade, then perhaps it should be a bit more organized, with generalized guidelines and goals, without being dogmatic or creating infallible doctrines. (Not sure how to go about that though.) We are told that the Sethite method of education was superb and has never been surpassed (76:3.10).
Me here: I agree wholeheartedly!! And it surprises me that there has not been a more formalized educational and testing format established to measure the depth and width of the student’s knowledge of the Book’s contents. A simple thing really. Now, there are educational curriculums evolving to be sure. The Urantia Book Internet School (UBIS – http://ubis.urantia.org/moodle/ ) offers a fine selection of courses for every level of student and others are offering other classes and coursework – but there is no central organization to vet or endorse or monitor these various offerings. UBIS does have an educational and curriculum committee of some notable scholars though and also provides teacher recruiting and training sessions (I’ve personally completed 3 of the UBIS classes and personally endorse that experience – 20 students per course, several courses per semester, with students from over 30 countries participating).
I remember my bible studies course work completed as a child – very academic and not denomination specific – just a working knowledge and memory test of everything from characters and timelines to quotes – once could quote over 1,000 scriptures – and I also belonged to competitive teams which could answer any biblical content question asked….for points and prizes!! This educational approach was directly responsible for my grounding in religious scripture and my discovery of the Jesusonian gospel hiding in plain view within the Bible and also the discovery of so many conflagrations of content self contradiction. I became a truth seeker and critical thinker and a religionist by this educational foundation.
Without getting into beliefs and practices, could not the UB community establish such a system of knowledge discovery and testing?? It doesn’t need to be doctrinal….just a systematic presentation of text content for various levels of student experience in text and some effective measurement of knowledge retained with an ultimate goal of actual scholarship in the text…..not a holy status…..just a measurable knowledge base. We can never objectively determine or measure the fruits of the spirit – or an individual’s actual spirit progress or standing, but surely we can measure a knowledge base. And we could use traditional progressions of such knowledge acquirement: elementary, secondary, bachelors, masters, doctorate with some sort of degrees presented and perhaps some “test-out” of the elementary and secondary to prove knowledge already acquired. I would (if I were king) also require every student at every level to teach in the level before, creating a continuous chain of knowledge transfer and turning all students into teachers.
Bonita….I think yours a brilliant and noble aspiration! Thanks for sharing such a vision….such a practical vision for the Movement’s progress into the future.
I get weirded out imagining schools that confer upon students certificates or degrees of some sort in UB-ology. I do not envision it. Too formal for my taste.
I wonder if we shouldn’t acknowledge the universal pattern Mara? And give it the old college try? Surely it is better than any attempt at a new churchification of religion? What might happen if some future generation actually aspired to a great knowledge of this great text? This has nothing in common with priests or creeds or dogmas….it’s just knowledge. Such knowledge does not assure any spiritual progress or measure any life value of such students. I love acquiring knowledge and even like taking tests of knowledge. I hope some day that what has taken me 40 years of study to acquire my body of knowledge of the text might be accelerated and how that acceleration in the mind of a younger truth seeker and religionist might bring forth great progress in the individual and the community. I’m ready to write the exam for the primary while I would nominate Bonita for the Doctorate exam!! Think of all the specialties in the Bachelors and Masters – science, history, astronomy, particle and light physics, etc. Just thinking out loud……
(412.2) 37:6.2 This training of mind and education of spirit is carried on from the worlds of human origin up through the system mansion worlds and the other spheres of progress associated with Jerusem, on the seventy socializing realms attached to Edentia, and on the four hundred and ninety spheres of spirit progress encircling Salvington. On the universe headquarters itself are numerous Melchizedek schools, the colleges of the Universe Sons, the seraphic universities, and the schools of the Teacher Sons and the Union of Days. Every possible provision is made to qualify the various personalities of the universe for advancing service and improving function. The entire universe is one vast school.
(449.1) 40:7.3 The details of the Adjuster career of indwelling ministry on a probationary and evolutionary planet are not a part of my assignment; the elaboration of this great truth embraces your whole career. I include the mention of certain Adjuster functions in order to make a replete statement regarding Adjuster-fused mortals. These indwelling fragments of God are with your order of being from the early days of physical existence through all of the ascending career in Nebadon and Orvonton and on through Havona to Paradise itself. Thereafter, in the eternal adventure, this same Adjuster is one with you and of you.
(449.2) 40:7.4 These are the mortals who have been commanded by the Universal Father, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” The Father has bestowed himself upon you, placed his own spirit within you; therefore does he demand ultimate perfection of you. The narrative of human ascent from the mortal spheres of time to the divine realms of eternity constitutes an intriguing recital not included in my assignment, but this supernal adventure should be the supreme study of mortal man.
(449.3) 40:7.5 Fusion with a fragment of the Universal Father is equivalent to a divine validation of eventual Paradise attainment, and such Adjuster-fused mortals are the only class of human beings who all traverse the Havona circuits and find God on Paradise. To the Adjuster-fused mortal the career of universal service is wide open. What dignity of destiny and glory of attainment await every one of you! Do you fully appreciate what has been done for you? Do you comprehend the grandeur of the heights of eternal achievement which are spread out before you? — even you who now trudge on in the lowly path of life through your so-called “vale of tears”?
(279.13) 25:4.12 Those mortals and midwayers who serve transiently with the advisers are chosen for such work because of their expertness in the concept of universal law and supreme justice. As you journey toward your Paradise goal, constantly acquiring added knowledge and enhanced skill, you are continuously afforded the opportunity to give out to others the wisdom and experience you have already accumulated; all the way in to Havona you enact the role of a pupil-teacher. You will work your way through the ascending levels of this vast experiential university by imparting to those just below you the new-found knowledge of your advancing career. In the universal regime you are not reckoned as having possessed yourself of knowledge and truth until you have demonstrated your ability and your willingness to impart this knowledge and truth to others.
(587.1) 51:6.3 Think what it would mean on your world if somewhere in the Levant there were a world center of civilization, a great planetary university of culture, which had functioned uninterruptedly for 37,000 years. And again, pause to consider how the moral authority of even such an ancient center would be reinforced were there situated not far-distant still another and older headquarters of celestial ministry whose traditions would exert a cumulative force of 500,000 years of integrated evolutionary influence. It is custom which eventually spreads the ideals of Eden to a whole world.
(587.2) 51:6.4 The schools of the Planetary Prince are primarily concerned with philosophy, religion, morals, and the higher intellectual and artistic achievements. The garden schools of Adam and Eve are usually devoted to practical arts, fundamental intellectual training, social culture, economic development, trade relations, physical efficiency, and civil government. Eventually these world centers amalgamate, but this actual affiliation sometimes does not occur until the times of the first Magisterial Son.
I wonder if we shouldn’t acknowledge the universal pattern Mara? And give it the old college try?
Thanks for the references. I acknowledge the pattern. Education is a life endeavor both before and beyond college. And already people are giving it the old college try. But to my mind knowledge of the UB does not necessarily indicate wisdom or spiritual insight. How would you test wisdom and spiritual insight? I do not have the educator gene in me.
I wonder if we shouldn’t acknowledge the universal pattern Mara? And give it the old college try?
Thanks for the references. I acknowledge the pattern. Education is a life endeavor both before and beyond college. And already people are giving it the old college try. But to my mind knowledge of the UB does not necessarily indicate wisdom or spiritual insight. How would you test wisdom and spiritual insight?
I do not have the educator gene in me.
Such knowledge does not assure any spiritual progress or measure any life value of such students.
How would you test wisdom and spiritual insight?
Me here: Well….that’s done off campus, in a darkened room, by those who know how to operate a tadpole meter and they would have the usual accoutrements – pyramid hats, crystals, a rack, some probes, and ……perhaps we shouldn’t attempt such tests until we get to the mansion worlds? I believe such assessment might be considered judgment rather than testing? Let me take tongue from cheek here: no such test exists, as you know. It remains best, as always, to hope an education grounded in fact and truth combined with the spirit ministry within will come to bear fruit and good citizens….cosmic citizens who feel they belong to something grand that lasts forever.
An old saying goes – information is not knowledge and knowledge is not experience and there’s no substitute for experience. Education is quite important but it does not build character nor impart wisdom unless the student wills it and builds it with curiosity, passion, determination, wonder, and awe. A good school with a good curriculum and good teachers should recognize the opportunity within education to build such character. As Bonita points out….this will be hard. I just think it a noble endeavor and one we have a clear pattern presented for recognizing this opportunity for the Movement.
From the core curriculum of the UB itself, one might envision all the arts and sciences becoming integrated eventually, as they were in Dalmatia and the Garden. The point is, to me, that education of the supernal adventure we live within is a straightforward form of pure dissemination….not conversion or spiritizing. We can measure knowledge but only acknowledge the fruits that come from its application by the individual student.
I also know it will indeed be difficult and it will take lots of time and money…..and many have already begun this generations long quest. We shall see what the movement does as more and more students gain more and more knowledge in the text and experience with the truth and what doors our unseen friends might open along the way. I won’t be at this taxi stand long enough myself….but one dreams of what might be.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.