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Greetings!! I am starting this topic – The Urantia Movement – to discuss the issue of unity without uniformity. . . .
I listened to an in depth interview with Reza Aslan on CSPAN in which he shares his views and understandings of religion/s. I recall comments he made about the rise of the christian movement in the early centuries. There were many interpretations then, until an official version was put together in Nicaea under the rulership of Constantine. I am of the opinion no one person or group of people in this day and age will rule the interpretation of the UB or create an orthodoxy, as happened in the past. Probably some will try and other may like it, but I think the best way is to live your understanding/s of the teachings in the book. The teachings will uplift all people no matter their religion. In reality all each of has is a personal interpretation. We are in the age of personal religion. People get it. They know it is personal. It’s about God as you understand him, and, it’s about brotherhood as you understand it.
All these religions have arisen as a result of man’s variable intellectual response to his identical spiritual leading. They can never hope to attain a uniformity of creeds, dogmas, and rituals — these are intellectual; but they can, and some day will, realize a unity in true worship of the Father of all, for this is spiritual, and it is forever true, in the spirit all men are equal.Well said Mara…and thanks to all. Bonita’s point about things being potentially very dangerous is true at the group level too. Self deception and delusion seem to be shareable traits and trends. Like-minded does not mean right-minded as many examples illustrate, regardless of affiliation or purpose. My hope with the topic is to discuss this very diversity in the groupings of those who hold the Revelation in common and who also work in their own way(s) to disseminate the FER to those without it and recognize that those efforts are the definition of the “movement”, whether it be an individual effort or a group effort or an organizational effort.
This is to differentiate from the actual individual study of the book or from any and all celestial activities associated to all forms of planetary progress – I only meant to explore the current state of the movement and the potential future of that movement and how to approach diversity with unity of purpose and some of the obstacles to that ideal.
By way of one example: there are readers and groups of readers that proclaim Reservist status and/or direct contact with celestials who give them messages for the rest of us, continuing or completing or revising the FER. And there are what I call “circle counters” – claiming to know they have personal guardians (third circle) or some other status of progress and righteousness.
It seems difficult to homogenize such diverse beliefs and practices around the UB. I agree Mara that the seed is sown upon many soils and stones and only the fruitful crop to come will show that which withers and that which flourishes, and I further agree that there will not ever be a singular authority or organization that serves the needs of all or provides for the expressions of all. So perhaps, today’s diversity of form, strategy, and purpose among those who work to support dissemination is an important process that time will sort out. There is far more unity in purpose and cooperation in strategy than I think many realize.
Not sure if I’m remembering those things correctly. But then again, once you pass a certain age, memory becomes less and less reliable.
You are not remembering these things correctly, Bonita. If you wish you can go back to the old Forums and look it up. Besides, I can remember things back to my infancy, with visual recall, something like an eidetic memory.
Bradly wrote: By way of one example: there are readers and groups of readers that proclaim Reservist status and/or direct contact with celestials who give them messages for the rest of us, continuing or completing or revising the FER. And there are what I call “circle counters” – claiming to know they have personal guardians (third circle) or some other status of progress and righteousness.Have you ever read about Simon Magus? They had the same problems back in the first century. There will always be prophet wannabes. And as for circle counters, don’t we also have those who insist on being seventh circlers, those who haven’t changed one bit since age 5? What a bunch of hooey that is. People will distort reality to suit their own agenda. The trick is to figure out what the agenda is before they hoodwink you.There will always be Kool-Ade drinkers and I commiserate with your concerns about them. What to do with those led astray by false prophets? I don’t think you can stop people from being stupid. Education might help. Offering alternatives might help. I don’t know if we will ever know what makes people suck up to these mesmerizers and swallow their mumbo jumbo. I think it might be a kind of laziness when it comes right down to it. It is much simpler if someone else tells you what to think and what to believe; then there’s also that feeling of being special, part of a secret club of insiders. That’s really enticing, heady stuff, that chosen people thingy.We do know that there are hordes of directionally lost people on this planet looking for answers. So education, supplying some of the answers, in contrast to the bafflegab coming from the wizards of the circles and god’s elite emissaries might be about all you can do. Always do and say what you believe to be true, beautiful and good and let it be. If I were running this “movement” (God forbid) I would put all of my efforts into education, all kinds of education at all levels for all people. It would be hard to do though.By way of one example: there are readers and groups of readers that proclaim Reservist status and/or direct contact with celestials who give them messages for the rest of us, continuing or completing or revising the FER. And there are what I call “circle counters” – claiming to know they have personal guardians (third circle) or some other status of progress and righteousness.
Got involved with this sort of thing quite a long time ago. A UB study group that had a couple of leaders that proclaimed many unreal and unnatural abilities – if they were correct, Jesus would have returned in 1973.
It put me off to study for more than a couple of decades.
For reinforcement and help with study, this forum has been spot on, blog talk radio with Halverson is good. I am always looking for real association and help with study, still remain open to a group.
Yes Bonita, there are those who count their own circles and those with the seeming ability or willingness to assess the progress of others. I also agree that a charlatan without an audience is not a charlatan at all….it does take an audience. And while it is often true that it is the newer reader that is more easily misled, that’s not always the case. The “special” status or chosen people syndrome is a greater temptation in my view. But there are those who seem grounded and well read and still succumb to the allures of self delusion. I’ve known many of each flavor over the years.
The UB is filled with facts and truths which contradict the preconceptions of the student. For me, it seems, that new concepts I come to believe by study of the UB, still offer further opportunity for prejudice and the need for correction of those new, now preconceptions. I find group study, like this forum and other forms of association, helps me to continually challenge my current thinking or conclusions and keep me always in a state of transcending prior understanding into greater understanding by the contributions and various perspectives encountered in groups…..especially open and multiple groups. It is quite educational, if one is open minded, to learn about the Revelation, about other people, and about my own response/reaction to both of those by listening to and conversing with many different perspectives.
I spent a long time as an isolated reader before meeting another one. And I spent a long time, again 20 years later, as an isolated reader by choice due to some bitter disappointments in organizational disunity and dysfunctionality before dipping my toe back in the pool of diversity and within the “movement”. And this is one source of my interest in the topic. What are the advantages of engaging with others despite the great disparity between so many beliefs and practices, despite the one shared text?
Bonita, I agree so much with your call for educational opportunities as a priority within the movement…rather than so many of the other options available. This is key to me as well….the Revelation speaks for itself and the reading and studying of it, both individually and together, is the primary goal of mine as a member of the movement – dissemination of the text and association with those with the fruits of the spirit as evidence of personal progress in the spirit….the dedication to truth, beauty, and goodness by each to support those who find this book and also wish such community with others.
Regarding Brad’s thoughts about connections between planetary seraphic activities and human lives, I may be reading between the lines, but I saw simply his humorous implications. Bradly wrote:
“We mortals are short term “temps” that provide energy and error for their utilization. Or something like that!”
Indeed! If the Seraphic planetary government is to make their splendid lemonade, they need us lemons.
Rather than worry about what we students of these papers might be “meant to do”, I thought he was saying that simply by doing as Bonita suggests — living a life sensitive to Adjuster promptings and cosmic intuitions — then those whose job it is can plan ahead. Of course, the more reliable we become, the more interesting their plans can be.
PS: let me get one thing straight. Bonita, you lock up your house elves ??
Nigel
Thanks Nigel for seeing my point and my attempt at humor. Indeed it is my view that everything done by mortals that are by good intent, proper motive, and sincere desire are available not only to the Supreme but also to the angels. Our efforts, whether they be in family or profession or community….as we walk by or with forethought, planning, and purpose become “elements” for the formulaic activities of our unseen friends….not that anyone should try to predetermine what their agenda is or influence or even participate….just support by sincere efforts. I only claim tadpole status after all…..I don’t have any confidence in my abilities, influence, skills, or outcome management except for the task before me or the choice at hand. Those keep me keep me quite busy….and confused enough.
Mortals tend to self importance and great impatience. But those are only 2 things that lie within the topic….the aggregate movement of dissemination, education, fellowship, and community. There most definitely is a movement. It will certainly get bigger. There is great diversity and some division. And all of that does absolutely provide raw material and potential for our celestial family to work with in their own ways. No great claims made by that simple acknowledgement. Divine lemonade is made by celestials from the lemons we mortals provide…I’ve said this many times on many topics and is all I intended to say on this topic as well.
But I would like to explore the text Mara brought up about kindred spirits and groups of 3 or more becoming a mechanism of organization and how such an alignment of wills can be directed or managed at the group level for effectiveness. And what if the individuals so mutually aligned are sincere and aligned with Father’s will – what might get accomplished. Could a movement with a greater and clearer perception of fact, truth, beauty, and goodness by association with epochal revelation have a better outcome than Christianity came to? Or are mortals left on their own doomed by our very natures? Interesting to consider. Thanks all.
What are the advantages of engaging with others despite the great disparity between so many beliefs and practices, despite the one shared text?
1. It gets you out of the house.
2. When you meet with others, you share yourself with them; they share back with you.
3. Relationships are ends in themselves. Period.
4. Inherent in relationships is mental and spiritual stimulation.
5. Questions about the material are raised and you and/or others get to share answers – sort of like we do here.
6. Questions make everyone think.
7. Refreshments are always tasty.
We do know that there are hordes of directionally lost people on this planet looking for answers. So education, supplying some of the answers, in contrast to the bafflegab coming from the wizards of the circles and god’s elite emissaries might be about all you can do. Always do and say what you believe to be true, beautiful and good and let it be. If I were running this “movement” (God forbid) I would put all of my efforts into education, all kinds of education at all levels for all people. It would be hard to do though.
This is a place for such ideas!!
Yes Mara….relationships are an end of/in themselves. And relationships between like minded people who are will aligned in their joint efforts to serve? There is this from Rick’s OPAD yesterday:
“…in all group relationships we unfailingly provide for definite leadership. Our kingdom is a realm of order, and where two or more will creatures act in co-operation, there is always provided the authority of leadership….“ (1958.3)181:2.16
Very interesting concept to me.
Nigel Nunn wrote: PS: let me get one thing straight. Bonita, you lock up your house elves ??Wait . . . . you mean you don’t? I do let the garden fairies roam free though. But the elves? Not so much. They’re always moving my stuff around, like my car keys for instance, and my cell phone, and what about those socks! They’re trouble, I tell ya, nothin’ but trouble.
“…in all group relationships we unfailingly provide for definite leadership. Our kingdom is a realm of order, and where two or more will creatures act in co-operation, there is always provided the authority of leadership….“ (1958.3)181:2.16
Where do you think the AUTHORITY of leadership comes from? Personally, I don’t think celestials send leaders, I think they inspire people to lead. When the inspiration comes from the Spirit of Truth, it has a certain air of authority which is recognized by those who are also seeking truth. What I’m trying to say is that it still comes down to centering on the inner life while also providing a social milieu for ripening of fruit. Authoritative leadership may not necessarily come from elected or self-appointed leaders, but from those who are inspired by the Spirit within. It is the truth which has authority, not necessarily the leader.
“…in all group relationships we unfailingly provide for definite leadership. Our kingdom is a realm of order, and where two or more will creatures act in co-operation, there is always provided the authority of leadership….“ (1958.3)181:2.16 Very interesting concept to me.
This reminded me of the snippet about the constituents of a social problem – three or more persons grouped for service. In my experience when differences of opinion crop up a simple majority usually fixes the problem. You have to learn to lose gracefully, or, do a better job arguing your case.
39:3:6 [#2]These angels continue their ministry on the mansion and higher morontia worlds. They are concerned with any undertaking having to do with progress on the morontia worlds and which concerns three or more persons. Two beings are regarded as operating on the mating, complemental, or partnership basis, but when three or more are grouped for service, they constitute a social problem and therefore fall within the jurisdiction of the social architects. These efficient seraphim are organized in seventy divisions on Edentia, and these divisions minister on the seventy morontia progress worlds encircling the headquarters sphere.We haven’t about “unity”. I think it is important (at least to me
) to draw attention to the word that qualifies “unity” in this discussion. Aren’t we talking about “spiritual unity”? I think so.103:1:1 [#3]The unity of religious experience among a social or racial group derives from the identical nature of the God fragment indwelling the individual. It is this divine in man that gives origin to his unselfish interest in the welfare of other men. But since personality is unique — no two mortals being alike — it inevitably follows that no two human beings can similarly interpret the leadings and urges of the spirit of divinity which lives within their minds. A group of mortals can experience spiritual unity, but they can never attain philosophic uniformity. And this diversity of the interpretation of religious thought and experience is shown by the fact that twentieth-century theologians and philosophers have formulated upward of five hundred different definitions of religion. In reality, every human being defines religion in the terms of his own experiential interpretation of the divine impulses emanating from the God spirit that indwells him, and therefore must such an interpretation be unique and wholly different from the religious philosophy of all other human beings.Authoritative leadership may not necessarily come from elected or self-appointed leaders, but from those who are inspired by the Spirit within. It is the truth which has authority, not necessarily the leader.
Yes indeed!! There are leaders and then there is leadership. The persons and the qualities or source of those qualities/values is not the same thing at all. But it does sound as if this authority of leadership is one expression of how the celestial and Divinity itself utilizes mortal minds and acts on behalf of grander outcomes. The alignment of will and groupings of will are “useful” in the process of progression….both personal and societal I think. And this is not due to any cognition or intellectual cooperation, but a cooperative spirit led effort of the mortal. So it does sound to me as if mortal efforts can be “blessed” with this leadership quality that is not of their own making? Will alignment is key and so is the sincerity of the mortal….but what a faith son/daughter whose will is aligned might do is rather a fascinating potential. And what of a group of such ones? Even more potential, no? Errors are not thereby eliminated…there’s still mortal mind involved after all. But even those errors by righteous intent and effort yield up fruit….even lemons are fruit!
39:3:6 [#2] These angels continue their ministry on the mansion and higher morontia worlds. They are concerned with any undertaking having to do with progress on the morontia worlds and which concerns three or more persons. Two beings are regarded as operating on the mating, complemental, or partnership basis, but when three or more are grouped for service, they constitute a social problem and therefore fall within the jurisdiction of the social architects. These efficient seraphim are organized in seventy divisions on Edentia, and these divisions minister on the seventy morontia progress worlds encircling the headquarters sphere.
Me: I can really relate to that….a “social problem” indeed!! The “movement” is a social problem. Very interesting.
Bradly wrote:The “movement” is a social problem. Very interesting.
I didn’t mean to imply that about the movement. But some people will go to their grave with their underware in a twist over their grievances of the past and the way it all went down. Perhaps they have failed to adapt. I’ve adapted. If I can, others can too and maybe they have. Who knows? Have to go forward from where we are.
The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability — even to the heights of God-consciousness. 130:4:7
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