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Dear Elise,
Yes, I am a follower of Jesus, which to me means to live His faith with Him, to know and do God’s will, in service to all in the family of God. Our Master Son Michael achieved the ultimate relationship with his Thought Adjuster in his short mortal life, and while our world is not advanced enough for many, if any, to achieve fusion in one mortal lifetime, following Jesus helps us achieve this goal eventually on the mansion worlds. Yes, I think the revelatory commission believed that Jesus’ teachings can transform the world.
I know many readers who would say they are followers of Jesus; I just don’t know if they are reading this forum.
Peace and love,
Barbara
The 5th epochal revelation gives us a blueprint that is even more transformative than the 4th IMO. It carries on the same message that Jesus declared that we are sons and daughters of God. But it goes on to reveal that we are also cosmic citizens and we are part of a cosmic system. That 2nd part of the message is just as transformative as the 1st part. Our initial prejudice is to think that its not, but its because its just so completely unlike anything we have ever thought. Its not a message not for the timid.
I’m just astonished to discover that living as in the presence of God and striving to do his will is not good enough for some people. Isn’t that what Jesus did? It was good enough for him, so it’s good enough for me.
I’m always suspicious of those who want to change the world. It reminds me of the time that Peter and James came to Jesus saying, “We are ready – let us now go forth to take the kingdom,” and Jesus replied, “May your wisdom equal your zeal and your courage atone for your ignorance.”
.
Actually, and according only to additional apocrypha, Part IV was a late addendum to the Revelation, so I would dispute the notion that it is the most important part of the Revelation to the revelators, and there was about one year’s wait for a decision to be made for its inclusion. Don’t know why but I’m glad the Jesusonian gospel and story of his life was fully revealed. But Jesus clearly taught we are to seek, find, and follow the pilot, God within, and put our faith in Him. Neither of the great commandments given BY Jesus were about Jesus. The Jesusonian gospel is not about Jesus as delivered by Jesus. He did say he was the way….according to text, that means he and all Creator Sons are trailblazers and scouts, leaders for their created beings in time and space to know the way of living and being to ascend the pilgrim’s trail from time and space to Paradise.
All who have love for others follows Jesus. All who find faith in God, follow Jesus. All who sincerely pursue truth, beauty, and goodness follow Jesus. Love and faith are the way…the way shown by Jesus. Those who proclaim Him may or may not follow him. For following him is not about him, it is about his path and his way…to God. And we are told there is only one way to discern those who follow this way….and it is not by words, or even deeds, but the fruit of the spirit which results by following this way. It is not beliefs or declarations that bear such fruit. It is our motives, intentions, priorities, discernments, choices, and experience in spirit that brings forth spirit fruit.
Frankly, after 4 decades of working alongside hundreds of other believers in the vineyard, I get a little weary of those voices who are always so disappointed by what others are not doing…or doing. And the impatience displayed by the “lack” of progress lament. The time unit perspective of immaturity. If one is busy enough at work, there is hardly time or reason to be so disappointed in others. If one is joyful in this work and progresses in the spirit by such work, then confidence in all inevitabilities becomes a sublime experience of living each day seeking out the intersections of opportunity laid out before us in this eternal adventure. We are told that the more we depend upon others to be who we are and have what we desire, the more disappointment will attend our lives. I’m in charge of me….and no other. I am who I can change and no other. The measurement of other’s beliefs, acts, or words is folly. Weigh their fruit. See God within them. Know they are my kin. Discern their true need.
This is the way. It is not an easy way to be….at first. But experience and success in the way leads to an easier time upon the way, making such progress leads inevitably to new challenges and new mistakes to learn even more from. Interesting discussion. The fact is, according to text, that all paths walked in faith and hope and love lead to Paradise. No declarations required. No explanations needed. No words suffice. I am blessed to have known so many faithful pilgrims upon this way, including those here that teach me much and share the illumination of God within one with another. I have no disappointment or impatience to share here….and I am but a tadpole upon this way our Lord trailblazed for all. Thanks all.
117:3.4 Your Creator Son can actually be such a living channel from humanity to divinity since he has personally experienced the fullness of the traversal of this universe path of progression, from the true humanity of Joshua ben Joseph, the Son of Man, to the Paradise divinity of Michael of Nebadon, the Son of the infinite God…..
21:6.4 Just as the Deity of the Supreme is actualizing by virtue of experiential service, so are the Creator Sons achieving the personal realization of the Paradise-divinity potentials bound up in their unfathomable natures. When on Urantia, Christ Michael once said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” And we believe that in eternity the Michaels are literally destined to be “the way, the truth, and the life,” ever blazing the path for all universe personalities as it leads from supreme divinity through ultimate absonity to eternal deity finality.
(1091.5) 99:5.6 Any religious belief which is effective in spiritualizing the believer is certain to have powerful repercussions in the social life of such a religionist. Religious experience unfailingly yields the “fruits of the spirit” in the daily life of the spirit-led mortal.
(1091.6) 99:5.7 Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term “faith” stand for the individual’s relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. “Have you faith? Then have it to yourself.”
Bradley,
Beautifully written. You echo my sentiments exactly. I simply cannot wrap my mind around the idea of going backwards. The result of the Fourth Epochal Revelation was the “One true and apostolic Church,” which was a failure. Now some people want to start the “One true contact commission Church,” evidence that lessons have not been learned. Or, it could mean that weak souls find comfort in the conformity of a group.
I still have no idea what the Michael Planners want and would love to see a simple mission statement. In the meantime, I don’t recall Michael having a plan other than doing God’s will, which is entirely a personal matter, between individual creature and Creator. His message was one of sonship with God and a simple childlike loyalty to the Father which enables the soul to blossom, bringing love to life, the living truth, the living God.
Furthermore, Paper 195, sections 9&10, which Elise claims is Michael’s Plan, was written by midwayers, not Michael, and it’s all about Christianity and its problems. The Fifth Epochal Revelation is not Christianity and trying to make it so is not what is intended. If you go back and read the same paper, section 5, you’ll see quite clearly that the midwayers recommend that religion be a purely personal and spiritual experience forever distinguished from other forms of high thought such as logic, aesthetics, ethics and morals.
If the Michael Planners are looking for new world leaders, then have them look at themselves. I get the feeling that there is a campaign going on here to recruit new converts to the cult. Getting in people’s faces and demanding they commit to one person’s definition of “following Jesus” is eerily reminiscent of self-righteous cult behavior. It has a foul odor that repels. Better to have a spiritual fragrance that attracts. How does that quote go about graciousness, something like the loyalty of love results in a spontaneous and living devotion to all that is true, beautiful and good expressed by the aroma of graciousness. Beating people over the head is not gracious. You won’t woo converts that way, unless they’re hopelessly fear-ridden.
If the great hope of Urantia lies in a new revelation of Jesus, then I suggest that everyone welcome the Spirit of Truth into their souls and allow him to do his own work. If he is allowed to his work with the soul then that soul begins to manifest the same traits the Master manifested while he was living on earth; he is able to live his life anew as part of the experience of each living person. That is Michael’s Plan as I personally know it. He stands knocking at the door to the soul, just let him in so he can do his work. That will be the new revelation of Jesus, the great hope of Urantia.
p2062:11 194:3.1 The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character. The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. When man yields the “fruits of the spirit” in his life, he is simply showing forth the traits which the Master manifested in his own earthly life. When Jesus was on earth, he lived his life as one personality—Jesus of Nazareth. As the indwelling spirit of the “new teacher,” the Master has, since Pentecost, been able to live his life anew in the experience of every truth-taught believer.
Foruming has been a challenge for me. And I have learned far more by those who disagree with me. Many here have been foruming together for years now and know one another. We have also changed one another in perspective and appreciation and discovery that we share here together. So, for those newer posters among us, I hope you will be patient and persistent in your sharing here. Your welcome does not depend upon the agreements or disagreements we may experience but in the time given to come to understand and appreciate others. I really have to watch my own prejudice and passion. Peace.
I believe the more successful path is to uplift the current community of God-oriented people by showing them the real Jesus and his true teachings.
If you want to show people the real Jesus, then you must have him living inside of you. If he’s in you, please show us; reveal the Jesus who lives in you. We will recognize him because everyone here is a truth-seeker. You are in the right place. Everyone here loves Jesus and everyone here is working with him. He directs the loving contact between personalities. May I suggest a more loving, a more Jesus-like approach to your mission. Allow Jesus to do his work and get yourself out of the way.
If the Michael Planners are looking for new world leaders, then have them look at themselves. I get the feeling that there is a campaign going on here to recruit new converts to the cult.
Well, that seems a bit harsh and too far. Elise brought up the “Michael’s Plan” document but hasn’t seemed even to have examined it much, seeing as her assumptions about its contents are very different from what they are. I know I won’t ever find the “Michael’s Plan” document to be something to spend more time with, but I don’t find the people discussing it here to be on a “campaign” to recruit into a “cult”. It’s been all around an interesting conversation so far. Barbara has been forthright and upfront about the history of the document and very open to discussions and opinions and I’ve enjoyed hearing her perspective a lot though I don’t agree with her conclusions.
Bradly, very much have enjoyed your posts!
Well, that seems a bit harsh and too far.
Perhaps, but I think aggressive, in-your-face demands directed at specific individuals to make a written oath to being “followers of Jesus” is cult-like behavior. Cults tend to be excessively zealous and regard their ideology to be the truth and the law. Cults usually claim some special mission to save humanity and are preoccupied with bringing in new members willing to conform to a system of group-think.
Personally, I’m very put off by this tactic of demanding people to profess publicly their loyalty to “following Jesus,” browbeating people into accepting one person’s line of reasoning. That is a bit harsh and way too far in my opinion. Way, way too far.
“Man is not lost in the theological sense”. Jesus succeeded as a spiritual uplifter 2000 years ago. What people need is a better idea of God…
If all you do is love other people, you are doing all you need to do. You don’t need to do more than that. That IS living the 4th epochal revelation. Its unselfish loving ministry to your fellow brothers and sisters while dwelling in the kingdom. That is it. You don’t need the words of the revelation to do that either. You will change the world with your love if it is spiritual love. We also can’t answer questions that people are not asking. If someone is not asking us about the kingdom or about spiritual matters we don’t answer their questions. That is self-asserting our will on to them. They have to choose it. They have to recognize a higher reality in us and seek us out and ask us about it. That’s the only way we can answer their questions. They have to choose to ask. If in the context of a personal relationship someone is ready for something more than by all means we should be there for them.
If we are living the truths of the 4th and the 5th epochal revelation we will enjoy a “peace that passes all understanding”. People will recognize that and be drawn to you naturally. You won’t have to go out of your way, people will ask you “how are you doing that”?
(1098.3) 100:4.6 You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man.
Well said Scott and I concur.
But I’m not done spilling my guts on this topic and I’m sorry if some people think that what I’m about to say is harsh. The slightest whiff of a cult brings out my inner Klingon. Nothing will stand in my way of preventing zealotry from hijacking this Revelation. To hold a knife to people’s throats and demand they pledge allegiance to the Michael Plan Cult is too Islamic for my tastes. Militant confrontations with forum members, demanding answers to questions is not at all Michael-like. And so far, nothing I’ve read or heard about the Michael Plan Cult resonates with my inner Michael. I’m not a member of the UAI, but if I were, I would make a motion to have it removed from the archives.
I do admire Barbara’s sincerity, graciousness and willingness to answer questions, but I will not, and cannot, tolerate fanatic zealotry from other members of the Michael Plan Cult.
You’ll all be glad to hear that I’m done with this topic. I’ve seen all I want to see. I’m taking my stockpile of popcorn back to the store and turning the channel. I’m not really interested in how this movie turns out, mostly because I don’t think it has a chance. It’s too evil and by evil I mean imperfect. Tell the producers to shelve it and hire a new screenwriter. Giving it a final thumbs down.
Bonita says: ” And so far, nothing I’ve read or heard about the Michael Plan Cult resonates with my inner Michael. I’m not a member of the UAI, but if I were, I would make a motion to have it removed from the archives.”
As I said before – the disclaimer is clear that links are not an endorsement. But I will bring the matter to the committee and agree, perhaps we should await a review of the updated and revised edition before having it available for view – hopefully retitled – especially since the authors did not intend a public viewing to begin with and their true audience are the organizations themselves and not the general public. I’m no fan though of censorship….but a discussion on the matter is in order. Not my decision. Peace.
Dear friends,
As a new participant in UAI forums or any other reader- sponsored public forums for that matter, I would like to share that some posts on this forum have been of the nature where in my other electronic communication experiences, personal and professional, I would have engaged in private email, picked up the phone, or met in person. Even so, I would like to continue in the forum, if for no other reason than to express my thoughts as a UAI member about the forum discussion format. I will read through a few other forums, too, so this may take me some time.
Having thought and prayed about the series of posts so far, I feel it is important for me to say again that the document “Michael Plan” is presented by readers acting as individuals, and in no way represents any group, nor makes any proposals to any groups, only to individuals who are interested in exploring the content of the document. I am the only co-author or signer who has participated thus far in this forum. If others were to join, each would be speaking as individuals, just as I have.
I wish each of you the best in your truth-seeking.
Peace and love,
Barbara
Dear Bonita, where is your anger coming from? I asked a simple question: Do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus? Yet, you have characterized that question as:
1. Getting in people’s faces and demanding they commit to one person’s definition of following Jesus;
2. An aggressive, in-your-face demand directing people to make a written oath to being followers of Jesus;
3. A tactic of demanding people to profess publicly their loyalty to following Jesus, browbeating people into accepting one person’s line of reasoning.
4. Holding a knife to people’s throats and demand they pledge allegiance to the Michael Plan Cult
5. Militant confrontation
6. Fanatic zealotry
Really Bonita? Is that really what you read in my question? Why does that simple question evoke your inner Klingon. Didn’t you say Jesus is in you somewhere? And of course, your TA, right? What a trinity!! How do they all get along? Sounds odd. Actually, it makes me think of the 195:9.6
“Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and man-dominated. Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus because of their fears of what it will do to them — and with them. And all such fears are well founded. The religion of Jesus does, indeed, dominate and transform its believers, demanding that men dedicate their lives to seeking for a knowledge of the will of the Father in heaven and requiring that the energies of living be consecrated to the unselfish service of the brotherhood of man.”
So in a certain way you are correct that being a follower of Jesus comes with it a demand to not only believe, but to act on that belief in unselfish service to the brotherhood of man. That, my dear sister, is a ministry whether we like it or not.
Now, perhaps you won’t see this response, Bonita. But maybe curiosity will bring you back soon and this will give you some food for thought.
Elise
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