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@Mara regarding the revelation lasting a thousand years. I am guessing this is where you heard about that??
(330.2) 30:0.2……. Such conceptual expansion would hardly be desirable as it would deprive the thinking mortals of the next thousand years of that stimulus to creative speculation which these partially revealed concepts supply. It is best that man not have an overrevelation; it stifles imagination.
It would definitely seem that this revelation is supposed to give man something to work with for the next thousand years.
It was not my intention to comment directly regarding the documentation presented as “The Michael Plan”, but with the addition of various posts to this topic by individuals who have some primary reasoning for its presentation as such, would indicate that it is a viable subject and in my resent additional understandings of the various processes which went into the production of “The Urantia Book”, and my review of recent additional information which has come to my attention, added to what I personally have acquired through experience and association with various individuals, have I found that “The Michael Plan” has undeniable concerns as to the editing of the Urantia Book from the original Papers as presented by the revelators.
As I am involved on another Forum, currently discussing the validity and viability of the Islamic Quran, as its content and context as written seems to have been altered through many translations and misinterpretations of the many Islamic Sects, where when one actually reviews its translated text, and put into proper context, that even the Quran and the Hebrew Old Testament and the disregarding of the New Testament participation of Jesus, where Jesus is well documented in the Quran, seems to indicate that the Quran was an attempt by the Celestials to intervene through corrective measures to counter the effects of various groups, who have molded or fashioned any original plan in such a way as to, alter mandated bestowals, by personal religious beliefs or opinions by their position, whereby they take an over-controlling position of authority thinking that what they are or were doing was correct, or maybe just plain ignorant of Our Fathers Plan.
Nevertheless, it would seem that the damage is done, and now we are in recovery mode, but it is good that there are some who feel that it is important to identify that there is a problem and that it needs to be fixed.
It is my understanding that the Urantia Book was edited in such a way as to focus attention away from the resurrection, where repersonalization was only viable in a Mansion World setting, whereby the original text would put to much emphasis on reincarnation verses mortal repersonalization of sleeping survivors on Urantia. It was my understanding the this was mandated by someone other than Dr. Sadler, yet still having enough authority or influence to have changes made to the Urantia Book. On a personal note, I was in association with a person who had actually seen the copies of the original Papers, where he was able to see them, and told me where they were housed, and were not destroyed as per his visual confirmation. I had no reason to question this ex-Marine’s words and latter found that the location was viable based on my research of Dr. Sadler’s vocational travels. So, it would seem that although The Urantia Book is a valid text, it would seem that its context may have been deliberately altered to change specific notations which would have been more directly narrated for specific reasons.
Therefore, I can understand why “The Michael Plan” was presented, and why it was presented in such a way as to not focus back on the original concerns of the individuals involved in its presentation. It would also seem that there are some people within the movement who really do not have full confidence in our Father’s ability to make thing happen the way they should, or maybe this is the natural progression of His Plan, based on weeding out the chaff prior to the Harvest.
For those interested, the link here will connect you to the spreadsheet of all known edits made and considered but not made as determined by the Standardized Reference Text Committee that was completed 5-6 years ago. The original text from the original plates is also still published elsewhere for personal comparison. It should be noted that the readership has been aware of this editing process for many decades…and it has been somewhat a divisive issue and thus, the Committee. I’ve found no changes of any profundity myself but there are those who think any change is profound and undesirable. My opinion doesn’t matter.
I have no knowledge or information about that which Midi makes reference to but the original stainless steel printing plates remained intact until the mid 70s anyway and the first printing was by those original plates to my knowledge. This topic is well covered in several historical documents available for public viewing and research. The original manuscript was hand written and then transcribed by manual type and then made into printing plates.
Enjoying the conversation – thanks to all. Peace.
Glad this came up,
Thanks all for the fine thinking and rethinking.
I saw Barbara and Charles present the plan at the Kansas conference last year, and asked three questions:
Is it wise to base it in apocrypha?
Does cobbling quotes and calling it a plan of our Sovereign set a bad precedent?
Is is wise to involve our organization, either supporting or proclaiming?
$.01 Rick
Richard E Warren
Hello Rick…and All!! I wonder too about the logic of basing any human organizational and dissemination plan on any work that is not by or from the many patterns presented to us directly in and by the Revelation…surely there is sufficient structural design templates provided therein for us mortals to idealize and implement for our experience and improvement based on results and that experience.
The name is problematic….and fraudulent on its face. And damages any credibility the “Plan of Mortals” might actually aspire to by its misleading current title (easily remedied and revised though). Jesus clearly left the “keys” of mortal ministry management in the hands of mortals to work out such plans themselves and not, as I recall, with any expectation that a singular authority would claim them….except, perhaps as was mentioned here by another, as the nursemaid of a newborn infant or nurseryman of a new sprout. The Creator Son’s plan (now Master Son) is, of course, a multi-faceted and multi-dimensional and responsive “plan” placed into the capable hands of many agencies and agents of celestial orders with great diversity in focus, priority, and effect. To claim this one element of planetary upliftment as “THE” is, again, a falsehood that presumes an authority that does not exist among any mortal or group of mortals.
As to “our organization”…..I can only offer my opinion as I do not speak for or represent the membership on any such issues and in the Association, it IS the membership that determines policy. I don’t think archiving documents or posting web links should be perceived as any sort of organizational endorsement though in this or any other example…..but perhaps that issue should be considered more seriously. The endorsement of our previous President of the Board, though, could be viewed by some as more than a personal endorsement (incorrectly however).
To my knowledge, Urantia Association International does not aspire to any singularity of domination or authority but, rather, seeks simply to organize supporters into a corps of activists who are dedicated to the Foundation’s mission of publishing, translating, and distribution of the whole text to the whole world and support that effort by the affiliation and networking of students to meet, gather, read, discuss, debate, teach and learn by a system of connectivity resources – people linked to people to link people to people. This is the agenda as I understand it and its outcome will be determined by those people so engaged in time to come – it is but a super-structure and vehicular organization, not a doctrine or creed or authority, designed to flexibly adapt to the certain changes to come in membership, readership, opportunity and challenge.
IMO, that does not allow for the organizational supporting or proclaiming this project due to its title, its presumptions, and its goal of authoritarianism. However, I am very interested in any and all scholarly work that would help extract organizational patterns from the Revelation itself which might be useful in guiding future development of the cooperative and coordinated integration of shared goals by multiple organizations and activists which does not require uniformity by such an effort of unity. Diversity has its downside, as does authoritarianism. So far as I can discern, the parting words of “….you’re on your own now.” were definitive and instructive. This piece of apocrypha matches repletely our Master’s giving the “keys” of mortal ministry into the hands of the mortals then and there and to come. This is our puzzle to piece together, over time, by the evolutionary demands of error, improvement, new error, new improvement, ad infintum.
I hope I stated clearly that such is but one opinion by but one tadpole……..Peace.
The desire to spread the book is something that I think readers just naturally assume they need to do. However I think that we should exersize caution when we start handing books out to people.
(998.2) 91:4.4 But the spiritually advanced person should exercise great caution in attempting to discourage the primitive or immature mind regarding such prayers.
If we are handing out TUB’s left and right to people who are practicing primitive prayer that is esentially an attempt to discourage their primitive prayer. TUB takes a dump on the entire notion of primitive prayer. Its taking a dump on every primitive practice people have ever known.
Would it be wise to go to a primitive country like Iraq and start dropping books off at their feet? They would go through the book and just read about how primitive they are. There would be MASSIVE disillusionment. Essentially the majority of the world is engaging in a primitive form of prayer and religion, I think we should be careful how we give this book out. To leave someone alone with this book without any help is probably a bad idea, we could be doing more harm then good.
I am not saying we shouldn’t share the book, but I think we should pay close attention to the “great caution” part of it and ask ourselves the question why do we want to exersize great caution when sharing the book. In a personal relationship its not so bad to be given a TUB, because you have someone there to help you when you do go through periods of disillusionment. But if you are all alone going through disollusionment without someone there, it may not be a good thing. You may just end up going through so much disollusionment that you stop where you are and give up. Or you may just sit there and beat yourself up over everything. Some people may be better off not going through all of that.
The one nifty thing about wisdom is that it doesn’t come in a tidy package, completely assembled and ready for use. Wisdom is earned by experience and experience is messy; it includes making mistakes, sometimes lots of them. It took about a decade after Pentecost for the early believers to fractionalize. There was plenty of bickering between the various sects, James, the Lord’s brother and Abner getting the short end of the stick rather early on. I suspect that this type of disputation is part of the process, especially since the same thing is happening with this epochal revelation as the last, and even the ones preceding them. It seems to be a recurring theme, and probably necessary for the growth of wisdom.
Both mind and spirit tend toward unity; therefore, it’s no wonder that humans desire it so ardently. But it is all about unity of purpose, motivation and goals derived from spiritual insight. It’s about the inner recognition of truth and how it is interpreted on an individual basis. As long as everyone is striving to discover, recognize, interpret and choose the truth, then why does it matter what social form it takes?
In fact, I believe it should take many different forms in order to satisfy the intellectual, emotional and social needs of various groups of people. There are such things as kindred spirits, and I see nothing wrong with like-minded individuals gathering together and establishing themselves according their beliefs concerning the Revelation. But this works only if these groups refrain from succumbing to the “chosen people” syndrome. I also urge strongly against central organization directing any part of these groups’ functions. (Thinking of the chaordic design proposals here).
If there exists a group of people particularly interested in preserving the original text inviolate, then I think they should organize themselves around that goal and do it. Consider it a service to the overall community of believers. There is no reason to ram it down anyone’s throats. Just do it, if you’re moved to do it, and put it out there as a gift to mankind. There is no need to wrap egos around true service. Either it is service (God’s will), or it isn’t. If it is, then it will find a place in God’s Kingdom, and that is all the recognition you really need for your efforts.
To summarize, the only uniform thing about people is the indwelling spirit. Everything else is subject to individual co-creativity. On page 1591:06, Jesus said, “I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality.”
I think that the scaffolding of any organization should be only to foster the freedom of personalities, enabling them to explore their own original ideas. Then, allow them to branch out in their service, individually or in groups, as new growths on the spreading vine. I think the current scaffolding is accomplishing this goal. There doesn’t seem to be emphasis on establishing a religion, or even a particular philosophy of living, as much as in assisting personalities with their efforts to socialize their thoughts concerning the Revelation and share their inner lives in the process. With that and the distribution of the text in multiple languages, what else do you really need?
Hi all,
I am new to posting in this format, and just realized my messages from yesterday and today did not reach you. I will send them later today. Please know that I appreciate all of your comments and have been reading them as emails.
Meanwhile, I am wondering if we could change the title of this forum thread to “Michael’s Plan” instead of “The Michael Plan”? None of us who co-authored or support the principles and practices in the document entitled “Michael’s Plan” would ever presume that we have “The” truth on the subject, nor would we presume to impose our views on others. We simply want to share our various views, as do many readers, on these subjects, for the purpose of group wisdom.
Isn’t it wonderful that our Planetary Prince has a plan that we may discern as we wish with the guidance of Jesus’ Spirit of Truth available to all of us all the time?
Peace, Barbara
[. . .]
If we are handing out TUB’s left and right to people who are practicing primitive prayer that is esentially an attempt to discourage their primitive prayer. [. . .]
Would it be wise to go to a primitive country like Iraq and start dropping books off at their feet? [. . .] To leave someone alone with this book without any help is probably a bad idea, we could be doing more harm then good.
I am not saying we shouldn’t share the book, but I think we should pay close attention to the “great caution” part of it and ask ourselves the question why do we want to exersize great caution when sharing the book. [. . .]
“TUB” makes some interesting points, regarding distribution of “The Urantia Book”, but over the many years which the Book has been in circulation it has amazed me that so few people even know about the Book. It took me until the late 1990’s to fall across the Book at a book store, although it had been around for forty year until that time. On another note where I agree that it would not be wise to go to a country like Iraq, which might imply a missionary type of approach, but it has amazed me that there has been not public media used to even bring it to the publics attention. How many TV networks are there that offer any number of religious programming to attract attention to their cause, yet The Urantia Book does not proclaim a religion, it does contain religious material, which may appeal to those who are looking for some alternative to a religion, where they may be looking for something more on the lines of a more spiritual understanding of the world and or universe. There is no reason why a nondenominational program could not be established that promotes the reading of The Urantia Book, like a public reading group program which takes specific section of the Book and presents them, audibly and texturally on the screen, then with a scripted question and answer session afterwards which may incorporate as many alternative proposed definitions as to be discussed as if there is not cut and dry answer to the Book’s interpretation. This may indicate to an interested person that there may be alternate ways to reading The Urantia Book. If it is scripted properly, it may also show parallels to an alternative which may shed some light on the message being projected in the Book.
Besides what could happen? they don’t watch or change the channel, but this will set a mental and visual note in their minds and the word “Urantia” will find its way into the modern dictionary, and may prompt enough controversy where other established religion will need to be aware of its existence.
P.S.: Posted 6:54 PM EST (DST).
Hi Midi,
As a longtime student of The Urantia Book I would like to challeng this assertion you made:
“…The Urantia Book does not proclaim a religion…”
From cover to cover it proclaims the “religion of Jesus,” fatherhood of God, brotherhood of mankind.
The term “religion” is redefined as the personal spiritual relationship, creature with creator. This parent child concept is the basis of religion and is core to “the religion of Jesus.” Religion yet to be accepted individually “en masse” and practiced collectively on Urantia.
Yes, The Urantia Book proclaims religion loud and clear. From God’s point of view there are only two classes, those who know God and those who do not. The Urantia Book is here for those who wish to know God.
Yes, The Urantia Book proclaims God. Knowing God is religion.
Begins with the acceptance of sonship and moves on from there.
Due to our lack of faith and understanding, we as humans often feel the need to defend God’s plan by assuming control over what constitutes orthodoxy and the right way of doing things. The apostle John no doubt was sincere when he asked Jesus about forbidding the strange man from teaching and casting out demons in Jesus’ name. John was concerned that this man “had never been with us, neither does he follow after us”. Perhaps he was worried about possible disunity and the chaos that could result therefrom. Jesus reassured him:
“Forbid him not. Do you not perceive that this gospel of the kingdom shall presently be proclaimed in all the world? How can you expect that all who will believe the gospel shall be subject to your direction? Rejoice that already our teaching has begun to manifest itself beyond the bounds of our personal influence. Do you not see, John, that those who profess to do great works in my name must eventually support our cause? They certainly will not be quick to speak evil of me. My son, in matters of this sort it would be better for you to reckon that he who is not against us is for us. In the generations to come many who are not wholly worthy will do many strange things in my name, but I will not forbid them. I tell you that, even when a cup of cold water is given to a thirsty soul, the Father’s messengers shall ever make record of such a service of love.” P1764:3,4
As humans we forget that Jesus came to proclaim spiritual liberty, to set free the minds and souls of men and women so that they could enjoy the unfettered experience of a personal relationship with divinity. And all these diverse experiences would constitute the spiritual brotherhood of Jesus’ gospel. The Master’s words in the above quote are particularly relevant to this discussion of “Michael’s Plan”. The account goes on to say that Jesus was referring “to the outward and far-flung social relations of believers regarding the questions of administrative control and the jurisdiction of one group of believers over the work of other groups which would eventually compose the forthcoming world-wide brotherhood.”
It is obviously critical that we preserve the original text of the FER. This is something that we can control. But the question of brotherhood is a lot more complex. We are told in advance that the makeup of that brotherhood would be diverse but nevertheless unified.
P.1010:4 The future of Urantia will doubtless be characterized by the appearance of teachers of religious truth–the Fatherhood of God and the fraternity of all creatures. But it is to be hoped that the ardent and sincere efforts of these future prophets will be directed less toward the strengthening of interreligious barriers and more toward the augmentation of the religious brotherhood of spiritual worship among the many followers of the differing intellectual theologies which so characterize Urantia of Satania.
I choose to belong to this Association because I admire its ideals and activities. But I recognise that one size does not fit all. Jesus presented us with today’s ultimate challenge of building spiritual brotherhood in his stirring response to James Zebedee’s question: “how shall we learn to see alike?”
What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity–and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.
In this way you may experience a perfected unity of spirit purpose and spirit understanding growing out of the mutual consciousness of the identity of each of your indwelling Paradise spirits; and you may enjoy all of this profound spiritual unity in the very face of the utmost diversity of your individual attitudes of intellectual thinking, temperamental feeling, and social conduct. Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father in heaven. You can achieve the unity of the service of God even while you render such service in accordance with the technique of your own original endowments of mind, body, and soul. P1591:6,7
Peace and love to all!
Barbara – thanks for the clarification on the “The” issue and my apologies for such grumbling about a non-issue – perhaps the moderators can change the title of the topic accordingly. I wonder why the authors of Michael’s Plan did not rely solely on the UB for its foundational support as it would appear the principal strategy to be supported and implemented by cooperative efforts is a school or universe-ity as described within text by the first 4 epochal revelations – one of those patterns I discussed earlier. I have thought so myself for over 25 years. The Revelation is quite specific in this pattern – supporting the individual religious experience by the facts and truths given in the Revelation from teacher to student to student teacher to more students with a radial effect, over time, of to reduce ignorance and integrate science, philosophy, and religion on the planet. The mustard seed factory.
And such an educational organization or Epochal School of Truth, Beauty, and Goodness was patterned for us (in some regards) clearly in Dalmatia, the Garden, by Machivinta, and by the Master. Schools of personal religiosity and universe cosmology. A wonderful pattern given and a no-brainer pattern for the movement.
I don’t understand any regret or lament that the movement has failed to achieve this most difficult challenge so soon in our existence though. The failure of leadership in our past by key personalities was, after all, a temporary setback of ordinary human frailties that came with some very important lessons and opportunity for evolutionary improvements. Both failures (one in the Brotherhood and one in the Foundation) were both authoritarian in nature and both rose from that outside of the UB itself. Two important lessons on authoritarianism and on the weakness inherent in those corrupted by the power of such authoritarianism. Lesson learned?
So why not base the plan on the text itself? There are now so many examples of efforts to educate students in study groups, conferences, on-line forums, the UBIS (a wonderful experience for my wife and I for 3 classes so far) is creating a template for expansion and is teaching teachers as well as students. Many of us on the forums are both student and teacher. While some work for institutional group religions, the education angle is obviously the one given for our example. This will take time and needed to await the digital age for its formation – brick and mortar with geographical attendance is now moot, the new world order of communication and information sets the stage for this pattern to find new expressions I think. I’m attending UU now (Urantia University) but I do support progress and unity within the movement for such a long term plan and project. This website is a visionary effort to contribute to that eventuation of a student/teacher body.
For those who are new to the movement, could anyone explain what these ‘apocryphal writings’ are and what the Association’s position is with respect to their validity and purpose?
Validity is indeterminable, Julain, all,
Not sure who can speak authoritatively about the Association’s position on this one piece of apocrypha, except the policy on channeling. Some members regard the Publication Mandate as valid, others aren’t sure and therefore don’t think it’s good to proclaim it. Especially when there is so very much in the text to work with.
The Mandate and all extraneous material have come under great scrutiny after Christie, onetime Forum member, supposedly received more messages from the Revelatory Commission, after the book was finished.
It’s a smoldering mystery now, and no human may know the real and true facts. I’d like to see the Association refrain from proclaiming the Publication Mandate and the so-called Michael plan, they don’t have to have the Association’s endorsement to function. I appear to be in the minority, and it’s not right for me to say ‘you can’t do that’, people should follow their leadings, just as I hope I am.
Fraternally, Rick
Richard E Warren
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