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If you look at the language used in this plan it is quite obviously not written by the same authors of the revelation. The authors of the revelation use words like no other where every word carries some meaning. Whoever wrote this plan had merely mortal intelligence.
the summary document has proceeded glacially, and I’ll share one as quickly as we can.
Rats! A teaser! I guess I’m going to get fat then . . . from all the popcorn. But then again, fiber is good, right?
But why is it so glacial if it’s so important? I guess I’m a different kind of animal. When I think something is of “epochal” importance, I lock myself in a room and work day and night until it’s done. Inspiration doesn’t wait, at least not in my brain.
Does this person have a fire in his/her belly or not? You know, getting too cerebral can ruin inspiration. If you want to grab the public’s attention, you have to let them know you’re really excited about this plan and can’t wait to share it. But it’s okay, I’ll wait.
Popcorn is on sale this week. I’ll stock up.
Hahaha!! You crack me up Bonita! If interested in the characters in this drama/comedy, I’ll tell you about it offline. No need to air dirty laundry here as they say, especially when there is always more than any one side to any tale, including this one. The Bard is quoted as saying the only difference in comedy and drama is….time and/or distance. What makes one laugh makes another cry depending upon your proximity to the event. Like you Bonita, I certainly believe that, by and through TA, the mortal mind might have contact with some celestial – however, we are taught that mortals cannot discern any distinction between TA, Spirit of Truth, or Holy Spirit and I don’t recall any reason given as to why any other being or the method of how any other being might communicate except by and through TA – but you know more about our circuitry than I ever will (so I defer that to you). But I certainly also agree with you that if such personal contact or revelation is received by any mortal mind, it is for that mind and individual only….and we are given adequate fair warning about the ability of mind to self create or misinterpret all such. We are told there is only personal and epochal revelation and there is not one example of epochal coming by, from, through, or to any mortal…ever.
Which, to me, means that any who claim to receive any messages for others or delivers “information” or “warning” or “instructions” or “announcements” to and/or for others is precisely by definition either deluded or fraudulent. Take your pick as it hardly matters to the rest of us. And it is this dangerous reality of the ability of mortals to either profess such or to believe the professing of others that contradicts the Revelation itself IMO. Only personal revelation is on-going. So when the voices in your head tell you the world is about to end and you need to hide out in a cave somewhere…..go…..and keep it to yourself please. The rest of us should trust the words of the Master to fear nothing, flee nothing, hide from nothing and live every day as a happy cosmic citizen well loved, served, and protected by the heavenly hosts, especially here on the Shrine of Nebadon one might assume.
Scott – the history is quite settled, by witnesses, that there was an extensive dialogue with the midwayers during the decades of the Forum. It is not clear who exactly authored the Jesus papers (unlike the first 3 parts of sections of papers) or not so individuated at least. The style in Part IV is quite distinct from the others and those one from another both by the “feel” and tempo, irony, humor, or lack thereof, etc. and by expert analysis – no single or pair or 3 individuals wrote the papers in the first 3 sections. The actual words heard by the mortals on the Forum have some recollection by witnesses but there was no formal “log” or transcript of those that I know….but it seems humor was not unknown….once the mortals progressed beyond shock and awe anyway!! There were always 2 or more contact members present, and different ones time to time over the years – and there is no recorded event of visual presence (Dr. Sadler professed they remained our “unseen” friends)….or personal discourse. And there was a formal end to all contact to the group. But there did arise one leader, nearly 20 years later who claimed further and personal contact which ended badly for himself and the movement. The mind at mischief.
I do not have objection to the notion of such “off the record” contact – there was a process underway to manage here that took a long time to complete and significant communication so related. My position is only that there is no need for any off the record (or unpublished record not found in the FER itself) authority for this group to promote the agenda which may have been so delivered off-record – for the UB says all that is needed for organizations and individuals to serve the study and dissemination patterns readily discernable in the Revelation itself and to seek out unity without uniformity OR controlling authoritarianism. And that such stories “about” the Revelation primarily serve as a distraction from the purpose and power of the UB itself – it serves no purpose now.
Barbara….I’ll gladly accept your generous perspective on the person and the events we discuss but you see the problem of associative endorsement. And as I said earlier, I also blame those whose adoration of a leader so often results in self puffery and eventual disappointment by all. We love to raise up our heroes and some love to watch them fall….we’re a funny bunch of monkeys we are.
To me, the gist of the plan boils down to part IV described here: IV. The School of the New Planetary Prince – modeled after the examples provided in-text. There is also a call for a new age of religiosity and cooperation of religionists in earlier sections- but not any new religion or religious authority. The school to be the educational fountain for the personal and planetary utilization of the Revelation and the facts and truths presented therein. Nothing alarming IMO. But the manner of presentation seems to suggest a link to errors made and corrections required which I find superfluous and unnecessary for the objective of future progress and greater unity of purpose, if not method and mission. My opinion is the group should abandon the past and that not in the UB and mortal endorsements and then begin from where we are today….and recognize the progress made and the opportunities at hand. Our celestial friends are quite adept at turning mortal lemons into divine lemonade….let us get busy growing the grove of lemons for their magic!! Sincerity never goes without result, no matter how clumsy the effort may be by such sincerity. Or so I think.
The more truth and reality within the movement, the natural result will be more unity and more harmony. It cannot be forced. But nothing wrong with a Mortal Plan to serve and promote that eventuation of our future real-ization of real-ity in the pattern of the universe as given and as we hold in hand today. The goal is easy to ascertain and agree upon than the “how do we get there from here” strategies and directions. And I assure you, every level of leadership in many related organizations is keenly aware of this need for unity, fraternity, harmony, and brotherly/sisterly love by all parties engaged in dissemination. We shall see what the future holds for such sincere efforts….and Barbara, I feel your efforts are most sincere. Peace All.
Well, I hope we have exhausted all the talk about extraneous matters and get back to the point of the thread. I was hoping to have a dialogue on the Master’s objectives and what can be done to further them. For those who do not believe the Master has a written objective, I direct you to Part IV of the UB, specifically, Paper 195, chapters 9 and 10, and Paper 196, chapter 1. For example, notice these words:
195:9.2 – A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism.
195:9.4 – Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus’ religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganization of the world.
195:9.5 – The hour is striking for a rediscovery of the true and original foundations of present-day distorted and compromised Christianity — the real life and teachings of Jesus.
195:10.6 – The call to the adventure of building a new and transformed human society by means of the spiritual rebirth of Jesus’ brotherhood of the kingdom should thrill all who believe in him as men have not been stirred since the days when they walked about on earth as his companions in the flesh.
195:10.16 – The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.
196:1.3 – To “follow Jesus” means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master’s life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.
This leads me to wonder: How many who have responded to this thread view themselves as “followers of Jesus”? How many acknowledge that the most valuable part of the entire UB is to know and understand Part IV – The Life and Teachings of Jesus? How many see the need to be leaders who rely solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings?
I believe this is where the Urantia communities need to begin – with the Master and his teachings. That is what I hoped “Michael’s Plan” was about. Enough time has passed “busying” ourselves and intellectualizing the Revelation. Isn’t it time to act on the express directions in the Revelation?
I would love to hear direct responses to what I have posted here. Thank you all.
Elise
[. . .]I certainly believe that, by and through TA, the mortal mind might have contact with some celestial – however, we are taught that mortals cannot discern any distinction between TA, Spirit of Truth, or Holy Spirit and I don’t recall any reason given as to why any other being or the method of how any other being might communicate except by and through TA – [. . .]
Bradly, I do not wish to take anything away from your opinion, but there is evidence of communication with others (not necessarily celestial) where it was stated in the UB that Adam and Eve where able to communicate with each other within certain circumstances, and over many millennia their seed may have enhanced the human ability to date, where these abilities may reveal themselves to many as something different than channeling or telepathy. If it where possible for a person to come back in time from the future, they may very well think us as primitive, where the human mind would, by that time, have been mapped and its frequencies by which each individuals mind functions will also have been identified and it would not be difficult to reproduce such methods instilled into Adam and Eve, with future technology. Therefore, being that it is possible to induce body movement in a human through electrical impulses to the brain and other parapsychological effects which have been studied for many decades, it would also seem possible that there are methods of communication which do not solely depend on the TA. If mortals did not have this material possibility, then how would you explain what Jesus was able to do, because the hole point of His appearance on Earth was to give an example that human mortals can do what He was able to do, although be it with faith and belief in that one can do so. Otherwise, it would make no sense for Jesus to have taught the disciples anything and there would be no reason to perform any miracles.
Midi Adam and Eve were not human beings. They were material sons and daughters. That is what gave them those abilities. Humans don’t have superhuman abilities, its a dangerous road to go down when you start thinking that. If human beings could listen to conversations that angels have it would ruin all evolutional development on our planet.
So, MidiChlorian, based on 196:1.3, do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus?
And TUB, based on 196:1.3, do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus?
Elise
. . . do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus?
Elise, would you please explain, in your own words, what a follower of Jesus means to you personally? No quotes.
Of course, Bonita. While the phrase “follower of Jesus” is quite comprehensive, it is also self-explanatory. As a UB reader yourself, it should be quite clear to you what a “follower of Jesus” is. But perhaps you just want to know how I define it, so I will indulge you.
IMO, a follower of Jesus is one who recognizes Jesus’ sovereignty, believes that Jesus came to reveal the Father to mankind, believes and accepts the message Jesus taught, chooses to live his or her life according to the way Jesus lived his life, treats people the way Jesus treats people, worships the Father the way Jesus worshiped the Father, follows the leading of the Spirit of Truth and the path or the “way” Jesus provided to enter the heavens, makes a consecration to continue the ministry Jesus began, and does his or her part in spreading that message to the ends of the earth.
So now I ask you, Bonita. Do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus?
Elise
IMO, a follower of Jesus is one who recognizes Jesus’ sovereignty, believes that Jesus came to reveal the Father to mankind, believes and accepts the message Jesus taught, chooses to live his or her life according to the way Jesus lived his life, treats people the way Jesus treats people, worships the Father the way Jesus worshiped the Father, follows the leading of the Spirit of Truth and the path or the “way” Jesus provided to enter the heavens, makes a consecration to continue the ministry Jesus began, and does his or her part in spreading that message to the ends of the earth.
A plan and set of guiding ideals most anyone who appreciates the Urantia Book can agree with I would think, using the teachings as written in the Fifth that are there for anyone to read themselves (as you yourself have quoted), and as understood about the Fourth from older traditions.
The stickier point is that, outside of the Urantia Book, there were a certain number of “communications and directives” about the handling of the book and initial social organization of believers, which were given to the Sadlers and others back in the day.
My summary understanding of the document you linked is that it’s promoting a certain specific leap of faith that asks people to join in a belief outside of the text of the Fifth, centered on those non-UB communications. From the “plan”:
“We have come to think of all of this guidance as expressing Christ Michael’s Plan for mortal participation in the planetary establishment and progressive dissemination of this revelation.”
A reason for these non-book guidances to be seen as apocryphal, and for a good deal of caution to be warranted in over-extending their applicability, is expressed well to me by Carolyn Kendall in her document “A Plan for The Urantia Book Revelation” (I do understand this document of hers is a basis for the MP document):
“During these early years the Contact Commissioners received many communications and directives in writing.” … “Between 1939 and 1955 eight written communications were given to the Seventy by the Seraphim of Progress attached to the Superhuman Planetary Government of Urantia.” (1.1) The last new written communication was read to the Forum in 1952. (see below) (8.1) “Almost all of these messages had a notation at the bottom of the last page which read: ‘To be destroyed by fire not later than the appearance of the Urantia Papers in print.’ It was the design of our unseen friends to prevent the appearance of an ‘Urantia Apocrypha’ subsequent to the publication of The URANTIA Book” (1,1) Dr. Sadler and Christy were permitted to retain several of the communications after publication, but she was required to destroy them before her death. (3.1) In 1982 during her final illness Christy directed their destruction by two trusted associates. (9.1)”
The “Michael’s Plan” document you’ve brought up emphasizes and places trust in two organizations as being key to meeting planetary destiny (along with the book itself). Myself, I find it fairly different from the UB and its portrayal of Jesus, who instead put so much trust in individuals, for better or worse
The conclusion of the MP document as I read it and what the writers promote:
“Only one Book, one Foundation, and one Brotherhood, unified in spiritual purpose under God, has the potential to give birth to a new age of religion on this world.”
These last two — the Foundation and the Brotherhood — are further described as:
* “Urantia Foundation was established to be the one authoritative publisher of The Urantia Book to prevent confusion among future generations.”
* “Urantia Brotherhood was established to be the one organization to promote social order and to minimize organizational confusion”I admit to being one who while following along the chain of assumptions that leads to these conclusion, found that I had dropped off in non-acceptance before the end. How could such a limited plan really be where we are going on this modern global stage of 7+ billion people? To me, I see here an unrealistic amount of organizational constraint, a wish for a certain tidiness of only two of them, just to address a pretty mild concern about an indistinct possibility of “confusion”. My two cents, is all.
I believe this is where the Urantia communities need to begin – with the Master and his teachings. That is what I hoped “Michael’s Plan” was about. Enough time has passed “busying” ourselves and intellectualizing the Revelation. Isn’t it time to act on the express directions in the Revelation?
Therein lies exactly the real confusion, which is that a plan that has been labeled as “Michael’s Plan” would be assumed to be a plan from the Urantia Book text, but which is a collection of personal evaluations and conclusions from material not in the book.
I mean no disrespect or unfriendliness at all to Barbara or anyone else who finds appeal in the “Michael’s Plan” document, just putting forth the perspective of myself as an outsider to these sorts of inner Urantia movement ideas and possible trends of thought, for what it’s worth.
I’m curious Elise. Why does it matter so much to you if I’m a follower of Jesus? Are you looking for company, fellow followers? What’s your mission exactly?
I like your description of a Jesus follower and I think there are some very good points in it. But I don’t have such a strict definition as you do. Jesus’ message is the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man and in his kingdom beliefs do not matter as much as faith.
Personally, I’ve had a love affair with Jesus since I was 5. Jesus was my imaginary playmate during my entire childhood and now that I’m adult, he’s still here. He’s with me every moment of every day. I don’t follow Jesus. I live WITH him.
Midi Adam and Eve were not human beings.
TUB, you are correct but the purpose for which they came was to embed their DNA into the Human population, and through the default, this purpose was enhanced in time to occur sooner, however the original idea was for their purpose to be handed down through their children which would be a weaker strain and would take longer than what actually occurred. Even after the default Adams life plasm was distributed by Eve to over a thousand other selected women, which would have altered the original mandate or method. So, what I indicated had nothing to do with non-humans but that humans would have received a similar ability if they were only able to identify this ability.
So, MidiChlorian, based on 196:1.3, do you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus?
Elise, based on (196:1.3), no I would not consider myself as a follower of Jesus. Jesus had mentioned that we should follow Him, however, this had multiple meaning, in that we should follow his life in order to understand His teachings, and then if possible we should follow Him through example, even unto death. Where even though His message was about Our Father and the brotherhood of man, he also showed us that there was life after death, where our faith would allow us to follow Him after death. On a religious basis, I follow only One, my Father in heaven, or as He resides within Me. Jesus would be considered as my brother who I have followed unto death.
The UB quote which you site, to me is a mortal addition which I would have to believe was added as a mortal not celestial authority, because if one actual knew Jesus, one would know that He would not have made such a statement to imply that one should follow Him in a religious way as described. Therefore, if push came to shove, I’d say it was an implant to the UB.
Midi the Adamites as a race didn’t have that superhuman ability. Adam and Eve started losing their abilities as they became human.
It matters, Bonita, because I am looking to see if there are any in the UB community who consider themselves followers of Jesus. That’s a first step IMO toward having an effective ministry of promoting the ideals of the UB. Everything begins with Jesus. The caretakers of the Fourth Revelation largely failed to carry his message. And so now I wonder if the caretakers of the Fifth Revelation will see the errors of the Fourth and this time stick close to what Jesus taught. Or whether they will be so mesmerize by the intellectual cosmology of the UB that they wholly fail carry the humble message of a carpenter’s son.
It seems it is difficult for many in the UB community to identify themselves as followers of Jesus. Perhaps they are so afraid of the stigma of RELIGION and the errors of Christianity that they choose to throw out the baby with the bath water. Such a shame.
My mission? My mission is to continue the ministry of the carpenter’s son. To be a fellow worker in revealing and promoting his universal sovereignty – that no one gets to the Father except through him. I hope to work with others who are interested in bridging the gap between the Fourth Revelation and the Fifth Revelation. Rather than carving out a new community of God-oriented people, I believe the more successful path is to uplift the current community of God-oriented people by showing them the real Jesus and his true teachings.
The content of the UB indicate that the commission who authorized the UB believe that Jesus’ simple teachings could change the world. I am inclined to believe them. And I am looking for other who are likewise so inclined. But perhaps I am looking in the wrong place.
Elise
Elise to follow the lead of the 4th epochal revelation is to enter into unselfish loving social service to mankind. The tricky part of what you propose is that we can’t just pick and choose which parts of TUB we are going to reveal to people. People are really clever. Lets say that you want to just take a few little parts of the 4th epochal revelation and share that with people. People will google what you said to them and quickly discover TUB and at that point you’ve opened them up to the entire 5th anyway. Many people don’t need to hear the words of the revelation, they need to see a living example of someone who actually is living the 4th epochal revelation. They need to be loved by someone who is experiencing the kingdom of heaven. That’s good enough. We don’t have to actually do what Jesus did. Jesus was God. Just by loving a human being with a powerful love that we experience once we enter that kingdom that will transform people. That love has the power to transform the world. It doesn’t even need to come with a bunch of fancy lines from the book.
(2090.4) 196:1.3 To “follow Jesus” means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master’s life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.
But I think there are people who are ready for more than just the 4th and ready to take on a higher challenge. They are ready to take on something that will transform them more than just mere religion will by itself will. There are people who are ready to not just have their inner world transformed by their outer world as well as everything in between with the full 3-fold picture of reality. But TUB is not for timid souls. Its not meant for everyone right now. Its meant for people who are ready for some courageous independent cosmic thinking.
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