-
Posts
-
Sign me up Bonita. I think about what you just said EVERYDAY. And everyday my frustration (impatience) for feeling like it’s not happening, hampers my sense of joy sometimes. I snap out of it though when I remember to pray and return to him.
It used to bug me too, but slowly my attitude has changed. It’s not easy to accept, but there is a really good reason for evil. It’s not here just to annoy us. Do you recall reading about the phenomenon of providence when it comes to the evolution of the Supreme? I don’t like posting long quotes, but I think for this it’s easier than you having to look them up. So sorry for what’s coming:
4:1.10 There is also an organic unity in the universes of time and space which seems to underlie the whole fabric of cosmic events. This living presence of the evolving Supreme Being, this Immanence of the Projected Incomplete, is inexplicably manifested ever and anon by what appears to be an amazingly fortuitous co-ordination of apparently unrelated universe happenings. This must be the function of Providence – the realm of the Supreme Being and the Conjoint Actor.
4:1.11 I am inclined to believe that it is this far-flung and generally unrecognizable control of the co-ordination and interassociation of all phases and forms of universe activity that causes such a variegated and apparently hopelessly confused medley of physical, mental, moral, and spiritual phenomena so unerringly to work out to the glory of God and for the good of men and angels.
I don’t know about you, but I found comfort in knowing that things which appear to be a hopelessly confused medley of events will all work out in the end. We’re so close to the chaos, it’s hard to see anything positive in it without faith. Here’s more:
10:7.4 We do not find the overcontrol of Supremacy to be wholly predictable. Furthermore, this unpredictability appears to be characterized by a certain developmental incompleteness, undoubtedly an earmark of the incompleteness of the Supreme and of the incompleteness of finite reaction to the Paradise Trinity.
10:7.5 The mortal mind can immediately think of a thousand and one things – catastrophic physical events, appalling accidents, horrific disasters, painful illnesses, and world-wide scourges – and ask whether such visitations are correlated in the unknown maneuvering of this probable functioning of the Supreme Being. Frankly, we do not know; we are not really sure. But we do observe that, as time passes, all these difficult and more or less mysterious situations always work out for the welfare and progress of the universes. It may be that the circumstances of existence and the inexplicable vicissitudes of living are all interwoven into a meaningful pattern of high value by the function of the Supreme and the overcontrol of the Trinity.
10:7.6 As a son of God you can discern the personal attitude of love in all the acts of God the Father. But you will not always be able to understand how many of the universe acts of the Paradise Trinity redound to the good of the individual mortal on the evolutionary worlds of space. In the progress of eternity the acts of the Trinity will be revealed as altogether meaningful and considerate, but they do not always so appear to the creatures of time.
Again, it’s comforting to realize that all the vicissitudes of living on this confused and chaotic planet are interwoven into a meaningful pattern of HIGH value by the Supreme. It makes me feel kinda small to complain about it, quite frankly. It also makes me think that if God has the patience to wait for the progress of eternity, then I should learn to have the same patience . . . do what I can and do it wholeheartedly . . . let God work out the details in his own marvelous way.
136:9.8 He would return to Galilee and quietly begin the proclamation of the kingdom and trust his Father (the Personalized Adjuster) to work out the details of procedure day by day.
This next quote says that we should take comfort in the fact that all things, both good and evil, work together for our advancement. We have to be willing to accept that we are presently imperfect, that the world is imperfect, but it is for a reason, and the reason is good. Hope lies in knowing that it’s not for nothing, so to speak. Our frustration means we need to reach higher, seek the kingdom within our souls with greater commitment, find that borderland of the soul where we start to detect harmony where there was once chaos.
118:10.18 To realize providence in time, man must accomplish the task of achieving perfection. But man can even now foretaste this providence in its eternity meanings as he ponders the universe fact that all things, be they good or evil, work together for the advancement of God-knowing mortals in their quest for the Father of all.
118:10.19 Providence becomes increasingly discernible as men reach upward from the material to the spiritual. The attainment of completed spiritual insight enables the ascending personality to detect harmony in what was theretofore chaos. Even morontia mota represents a real advance in this direction.
23?
So, what’s the point? Or, do you really have one? When one asks what they think or believe, should they use we, or us?
My point is more along the line of someone looking for affirmation as opposed to revelation. Sorry but thats how you impress me at times.
It’s not easy to accept, but there is a really good reason for evil. It’s not here just to annoy us. Do you recall reading about the phenomenon of providence when it comes to the evolution of the Supreme?
4:1.10 There is also an organic unity in the universes of time and space which seems to underlie the whole fabric of cosmic events. This living presence of the evolving Supreme Being, this Immanence of the Projected Incomplete, is inexplicably manifested ever and anon by what appears to be an amazingly fortuitous co-ordination of apparently unrelated universe happenings. This must be the function of Providence – the realm of the Supreme Being and the Conjoint Actor.
Yes I do recall reading it.
Not having been raised in a church going family, the concept of providence was one of those many traditional religious concepts that was foreign to me while I became familiar with what I was reading in the Urantia Book.
The concept of providence, as the quote above presents the truth of it, is an example of how the Urantia Book validates these types of things in reverse. As you know, providence is the idea that God favors someone with good fortune and material prosperity while the revelation of the Urantia Book topples this idea and turns it upside down (right side up) and does so by indicating that apparently unrelated universe happenings (which would annoy, by all appearances) are actually “amazingly fortuitous.” Thanks to the Urantia Book, these kinds of validations for me are quite comforting and takes the weight of uncertainty off my shoulders.
Nonetheless, knowing that many of my sisters and brothers who haven’t had the fortuitous experience of reading the book and holding its many truths dear like we do, still frustrates me and makes me feel I need to do more than I’m doing to help bring them to the source of so much that relieves the common anxieties of life.
How to do more? I’m working on it. I’m sure it’s right under my nose.
(132:6.1) Here in Rome also occurred that touching incident in which the Creator of a universe spent several hours restoring a lost child to his anxious mother. This little boy had wandered away from his home, and Jesus found him crying in distress. He and Ganid were on their way to the libraries, but they devoted themselves to getting the child back home. Ganid never forgot Jesus’ comment: “You know, Ganid, most human beings are like the lost child. They spend much of their time crying in fear and suffering in sorrow when, in very truth, they are but a short distance from safety and security, even as this child was only a little way from home. And all those who know the way of truth and enjoy the assurance of knowing God should esteem it a privilege, not a duty, to offer guidance to their fellows in their efforts to find the satisfactions of living. Did we not supremely enjoy this ministry of restoring the child to his mother? So do those who lead men to God experience the supreme satisfaction of human service.” And from that day forward, for the remainder of his natural life, Ganid was continually on the lookout for lost children whom he might restore to their homes.
How to do more? I’m working on it. I’m sure it’s right under my nose.
Yeah, I think it usually is. I don’t think most of us realize how much the little things we say and do matter in life. People are usually looking for the grand gesture, you know, save the world kinda thinking. I learned long ago that I can make more of a difference with the little things, the stuff as I pass by, like Jesus did. I think it’s easier for our angels to manipulate the little things in our outer lives and sometimes you just have to open your eyes to see them . . . right there “under your nose”.
p1245:1 113:4.1 The guardian seraphim are not mind, though they do spring from the same source that also gives origin to mortal mind, the Creative Spirit. Seraphim are mind stimulators; they continually seek to promote circle-making decisions in human mind. They do this, not as does the Adjuster, operating from within and through the soul, but rather from the outside inward, working through the social, ethical, and moral environment of human beings. Seraphim are not the divine Adjuster lure of the Universal Father, but they do function as the personal agency of the ministry of the Infinite Spirit.
Anyone who looks to The Urantia Book for help with terrorism and other social dysfunctions is bound to be disappointed. TUB is intended as a spiritual roadmap, not a solution to all our social, political and economic ills.
I agree that TUB is a spiritual roadmap, but doesn’t it also include many lessons on how to advance civilization? I think it does. Isn’t there a lot of useful info about these things in papers 70 & 71?
I agree the UB is filled with practical ideals for society and governance and patterns of universe reality and the Dalamatia and the Garden, etc.
But to Keryn’s point, it is hard to apply the UB to any specific political and economic phenomena of our world I think. Often times, the horrific failures and faults lead to epochal transformations in the collective response to such troubles. Some are far too focused on opposition to certain things when it might be better to search out that which is worthy of support!! There are many worthy causes for support which may lead to a better tomorrow for all….the greater good for the greatest number.
I’ve also not found any particular recipe of issues OR solutions to problems….except on a personal level. The focus on social issues comes with the need (evidently) to tell others what to think and what to do….collectively and socially. Not the point of the Revelation at all. Change one’s perspective of the world by changing one’s own religious experience and growing wisdom as expressed every day as we walk by…and find a few noble causes to support along the way!
I think TUB gives us direction rather than specific solutions to specific problems. It wouldn’t be right to give us unearned information, but our celestial friends have definitely indicated what is progressive and what is regressive.
For instance, in the intro to paper 70 we’re given three extremely useful pieces of information appropriate to our current situation:
- Peace is secured only by a social regulatory system.
- The regulatory system is a controlling authority, or government.
- Government evolves through law and order.
Midi,
Anyone who looks to The Urantia Book for help with terrorism and other social dysfunctions is bound to be disappointed. TUB is intended as a spiritual roadmap, not a solution to all our social, political and economic ills.Keryn, sorry for not responding earlier, however what you have indicated above may not be disappointing if one looks into TUB’s general information that it presents, there is cause to think some descriptions and definitions presented about other topics can be applied to things like terrorism.
MidiChlorian wrote: Therefore, we need to work on getting our problems fixed so that things can get better not worse. As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it and even if these terrorist are systematically removed, there will always be others to step in to take their place. [. . .]
Although this is slightly off-topic, but I will attempt to illustrate using the following, where the word “terror” and some of its derivatives are mentioned in TUB, and the one area which may be associated could apply if one assumes that it is people who are the recipients of terror, and how they looked at it in the past, may help us see how history may have dealt with similar situations as described in TUB.
One such topic could be how the authors of TUB presented “Ghost Fear”. Where the terrorists of today can be associated with ghosts in that they are not always seen or noticed until an action has been created to cause that which we now fear.
Socializing Influence of Ghost Fear
(766.2) 68:3.1 Primitive desires produced the original society, but ghost fear held it together and imparted an extrahuman aspect to its existence. Common fear was physiological in origin: fear of physical pain, unsatisfied hunger, or some earthly calamity; but ghost fear was a new and sublime sort of terror.
(766.3) 68:3.2 Probably the greatest single factor in the evolution of human society was the ghost dream. Although most dreams greatly perturbed the primitive mind, the ghost dream actually terrorized early men, driving these superstitious dreamers into each other’s arms in willing and earnest association for mutual protection against the vague and unseen imaginary dangers of the spirit world. The ghost dream was one of the earliest appearing differences between the animal and human types of mind. Animals do not visualize survival after death.
(766.4) 68:3.3 Except for this ghost factor, all society was founded on fundamental needs and basic biologic urges. But ghost fear introduced a new factor in civilization, a fear which reaches out and away from the elemental needs of the individual, and which rises far above even the struggles to maintain the group. The dread of the departed spirits of the dead brought to light a new and amazing form of fear, an appalling and powerful terror, which contributed to whipping the loose social orders of early ages into the more thoroughly disciplined and better controlled primitive groups of ancient times. This senseless superstition, some of which still persists, prepared the minds of men, through superstitious fear of the unreal and the supernatural, for the later discovery of “the fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom.” The baseless fears of evolution are designed to be supplanted by the awe for Deity inspired by revelation. The early cult of ghost fear became a powerful social bond, and ever since that far-distant day mankind has been striving more or less for the attainment of spirituality.
Now there is more to this section but the narrations above, can be applied to how individuals are indoctrinated into a group, based on fear, or how there baser needs can be supplanted by a group which may desire to transform these needs to perform with ulterior motives. Why is it so easy to enlist certain persons into a group that promotes terrorism? What are these people lacking that they are attempting to fulfill in their lives with alternate experiences or doctrine? If we can identify this need or factor and supply a better alternative, which I’m sure is also described in TUB, then we may be able to change that persons attitude, and dry-up a radical groups supply of cannon fodder, because for the most part, the leaders of those groups are less likely to take on their own deceptions.
If you are looking for something in TUB, you may find it under different sources of presented information. There are other usages of the word “terror” in TUB which also can apply to terrorism, and in some cases how those who were terrorized overcame this or in some cases did not, whereby their outcome is noted. An example might be found in the section where the following resides?
(1070.5) 97:8.2 In order to understand how the devastating pressure and the inescapable coercion of secular history so terrorized the captive and alien-ruled Jews that they attempted the complete rewriting and recasting of their history, we should briefly survey the record of their perplexing national experience. It must be remembered that the Jews failed to evolve an adequate nontheologic philosophy of life. They struggled with their original and Egyptian concept of divine rewards for righteousness coupled with dire punishments for sin. The drama of Job was something of a protest against this erroneous philosophy. The frank pessimism of Ecclesiastes was a worldly wise reaction to these overoptimistic beliefs in Providence.
Midi, Anyone who looks to The Urantia Book for help with terrorism and other social dysfunctions is bound to be disappointed. TUB is intended as a spiritual roadmap, not a solution to all our social, political and economic ills.
Keryn, sorry for not responding earlier, however what you have indicated above may not be disappointing if one looks into TUB’s general information that it presents, there is cause to think some descriptions and definitions presented about other topics can be applied to things like terrorism.
MidiChlorian wrote: Therefore, we need to work on getting our problems fixed so that things can get better not worse. As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it and even if these terrorist are systematically removed, there will always be others to step in to take their place. [. . .]
Although this is slightly off-topic, but I will attempt to illustrate using the following, where the word “terror” and some of its derivatives are mentioned in TUB, and the one area which may be associated could apply if one assumes that it is people who are the recipients of terror, and how they looked at it in the past, may help us see how history may have dealt with similar situations as described in TUB. One such topic could be how the authors of TUB presented “Ghost Fear”. Where the terrorists of today can be associated with ghosts in that they are not always seen or noticed until an action has been created to cause that which we now fear.
Well, Midi, it would be helpful if you could make up your mind. Does TUB address terrorism or doesn’t it? In post #25843 you wrote:
As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it[…]
But yes, I agree with Bradley, above, that certainly TUB provides guidance as to the ideals of forming a society, a government, a set of morals/ ethics, etc. but it does not provide specific solutions or address specific moral, economic, national security or health challenges we face in our mortal day to day existence. We can certainly glean from TUB an overall framework and pattern of how to address our life challenges, no doubt! And, of course, prayer is said to be a means by which we can attempt to obtain personal guidance and help with those issues that affect our ability to continue to grow, spiritually.
Well, Midi, it would be helpful if you could make up your mind. Does TUB address terrorism or doesn’t it? In post #25843 you wrote:
MidiChlorian wrote:
As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it[…]But yes, I agree with Bradley, above, that certainly TUB provides guidance as to the ideals of forming a society, a government, a set of morals/ ethics, etc. but it does not provide specific solutions or address specific moral, economic, national security or health challenges we face in our mortal day to day existence. We can certainly glean from TUB an overall framework and pattern of how to address our life challenges, no doubt! And, of course, prayer is said to be a means by which we can attempt to obtain personal guidance and help with those issues that affect our ability to continue to grow, spiritually.
Currently the word “terrorism” is not listed in the UB and that is why I added “as we know it”. As I mentioned there are other usages of the root word “terror” in the UB, where at last count there are 22. As you also indicate, your preference above, and indicate that there are no “specific solutions” to various possible issues that may trouble us in this world, however what I believe has been presented in TUB, with the various explanations as to why something was or is, is so we can first identify our issues, then to determine, if possible, why the problem exists and, or, had developed so we have a framework to fix them on our own.
The UB does present alternate example of issues that others have used to correct what they may have identified as issues, and also have presented ideas as to how they think certain systems might be improved or made better but, ultimately the decision for change is ours, as long as we can agree that change or improvement is needed.
Why would the authors attempt to revel so much science, and cosmology in TUB if they did not have a purpose. To indicate that what we may think about these subjects, does correct our understanding and also helps with confusion but, why bother if they did not have a purpose in doing so? Do you think that our Father, would rather that we do nothing, or learn how to do things for ourselves?
What’s the cause of terrorism? Murderous intent.
Some people make the decision to harm and murder FIRST. Actually they’ve decided to commit suicide before that, then develop an unrelenting urge to take out as many as possible while they make it all look like it’s an altruistic service to some political or religious ideology’s twisted “cause.” That way they’ll become heroes (they think).
They’re just cowards. They don’t want to live life and hate all others who do.
How to stop it?
Love. The love that comes from mother and father.
(142:2.2) As time passes, fathers and their children will love each other more, and thus will be brought about a better understanding of the love of the Father in heaven for his children on earth. Remember, Jacob, that a good and true father not only loves his family as a whole—as a family—but he also truly loves and affectionately cares for each individual member.”
Just to be clear here. These posts about governments and what they can do to stop terrorism is about the social brotherhood. The social brotherhood is evolving, and must evolve. It will never stop evolving, so we all live in hope that evolution is not hindered or forced temporarily backward by antisocial elements.
99:3.2 The kingdom of heaven is neither a social nor economic order; it is an exclusively spiritual brotherhood of God-knowing individuals. True, such a brotherhood is in itself a new and amazing social phenomenon attended by astounding political and economic repercussions.
The kingdom of heaven concept must rule in the hearts of men before it can have positive social repercussions. Unfortunately, and I have to be extremely delicate about saying this, but there are religionists out there who have mistaken what they interpret as the ideal social brotherhood for the spiritual brotherhood, or the kingdom of heaven. It’s not the first time in our history that this has happened. Many have dreamed of the ideal social brotherhood and have tried to force it on the world by attempting to circumvent the time necessary for it to evolve. Impatience fosters violence on multiple levels, in my opinion.
48:7.20 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.
The good news is that these attempts always fail because they are not true, they are not aligned with God’s will. They cannot be lived out in reality because they are unreal. In the meantime though, they can make quite a big mess. When society gets tired of the mess, it’ll clean it up. Sooner or later that line will be crossed, and it will be ugly, but only in the short term. We’ve seen this over and over again. It’s an evolution and the things we can do to foster its forward momentum are listed in paper 52 section 6. Ethical awakening is one of them, and I don’t think we’ve actually arrived there yet. On the whole, the planet has arrived at ethical outrage . . . lots of outrage . . . but that’s not an awakening.
52:6.5 3. Ethical awakening. Only ethical consciousness can unmask the immorality of human intolerance and the sinfulness of fratricidal strife.
The kingdom of heaven concept must rule in the hearts of men before it can have positive social repercussions. Unfortunately, and I have to be extremely delicate about saying this, but there are religionists out there who have mistaken what they interpret as the ideal social brotherhood for the spiritual brotherhood, or the kingdom of heaven. It’s not the first time in our history that this has happened. Many have dreamed of the ideal social brotherhood and have tried to force it on the world by attempting to circumvent the time necessary for it to evolve. Impatience fosters violence on multiple levels, in my opinion.
Mush of what you have said it true but, in an alternate way of thinking, not so much as in “the kingdom of heaven concept”, as you mention, but as how some interpret “the ideal social brotherhood” in order to acquire the ideal “spiritual brotherhood”. There are many who are looking for something that does not dominate their life with a different type of structured living which is just as dominating. As you said above, “there are religionists out there who have mistaken what they interpret”, and these so called religionists, have alternate goals in mind which, for the most part, is selfish in nature, in that they wish to function as leaders of a totalitarian form of dominance over others. The problem is that these self-proclaimed leads use a form of religious expression, in order to entice would-be followers into a false interpretation of “the Kingdom of Heaven”.
The Urantia Book presents an explanation for some of this type of thinking and also has elaborated with examples of how this occurred in our resent history, which seems to come across as a warning as to not what to do but more so as what has happened and why.
Secular Totalitarianism
(2081.1) 195:8.1 But even after materialism and mechanism have been more or less vanquished, the devastating influence of twentieth-century secularism will still blight the spiritual experience of millions of unsuspecting souls.
(2081.2) 195:8.2 Modern secularism has been fostered by two world-wide influences. The father of secularism was the narrow-minded and godless attitude of nineteenth- and twentieth-century so-called science — atheistic science. The mother of modern secularism was the totalitarian medieval Christian church. Secularism had its inception as a rising protest against the almost complete domination of Western civilization by the institutionalized Christian church.
(2081.3) 195:8.3 At the time of this revelation, the prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular — humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists.
(2081.4) 195:8.4 It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery.
(2081.5) 195:8.5 Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.
(2081.6) 195:8.6 Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly.
(2081.7) 195:8.7 To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness.
(2081.8) 195:8.8 It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education.
(2082.1) 195:8.9 But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.
(2082.2) 195:8.10 Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.
(2082.3) 195:8.11 The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.
(2082.4) 195:8.12 Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.
(2082.5) 195:8.13 The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come.
Like I said, TUB gives us direction. It doesn’t tell us exactly what to do about any one particular problem, but it definitely gives us direction. It is meant to reorient us toward reality while on this backward world. There’s a lot of helpful info in the big blue.
There’s a lot of helpful info in the big blue.
I know that you are referring to the Urantia Book but, “big blue” is also a name given to a large IBM computer, which I worked on in the past.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.