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Many years ago a fellow UB student presented a topical study on how many Urantians he thought would survive. I forgot what his theory was based on, but his conclusion was that not many would make it to mansonia or beyond.109:5.4[Part III]The great problem of life is the adjustment of the ancestral tendencies of living to the demands of the spiritual urges initiated by the divine presence of the Mystery Monitor. While in the universe and superuniverse careers no man can serve two masters, in the life you now live on Urantia every man must perforce serve two masters. He must become adept in the art of a continuous human temporal compromise while he yields spiritual allegiance to but one master; and this is why so many falter and fail, grow weary and succumb to the stress of the evolutionary struggle.We know that third circlers stand a pretty good chance (maybe), though anyone can throw in the towel at any time up until the assurance and proclamation of Adjuster fusion.5:1.11[Part I]Mortal man may draw near God and may repeatedly forsake the divine will so long as the power of choice remains. Man’s final doom is not sealed until he has lost the power to choose the Father’s will. There is never a closure of the Father’s heart to the need and the petition of his children. Only do his offspring close their hearts forever to the Father’s drawing power when they finally and forever lose the desire to do his divine will — to know him and to be like him. Likewise is man’s eternal destiny assured when Adjuster fusion proclaims to the universe that such an ascender has made the final and irrevocable choice to live the Father’s will.Any thoughts on this topic?
Dear Mara,
Thanks for introducing this important topic. I personally don’t find it edifying to speculate about how many mortals on this planet will survive. If indeed very few do make it to the first Mansion world then one could conclude that Michael’s bestowal mission to liberate us from our enslavement to evil, sin, and the degradation of a planet crippled by rebellion, was not very successful. I believe that what Michael set out to achieve, will be achieved!
There are plenty of pertinent texts in the Papers that give us clues about this. You mentioned one in your opening remarks (5:1.11). Those who commit iniquity….the conscious practice of sin or rebellion….will eventually become so hardened in their minds and hearts that they will lose the ability to choose to do the will of God. I don’t believe that most of us are iniquitous. We are certainly subject to committing evil but that is really a learning experience….making mistakes and hopefully learning therefrom.
(1660.2) 148:4.3 “Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.
(1660.3) 148:4.4 “Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.
(1660.4) 148:4.5 “Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.
(1660.5) 148:4.6 “By nature, before the rebirth of the spirit, mortal man is subject to inherent evil tendencies, but such natural imperfections of behavior are neither sin nor iniquity. Mortal man is just beginning his long ascent to the perfection of the Father in Paradise. To be imperfect or partial in natural endowment is not sinful. Man is indeed subject to evil, but he is in no sense the child of the evil one unless he has knowingly and deliberately chosen the paths of sin and the life of iniquity. Evil is inherent in the natural order of this world, but sin is an attitude of conscious rebellion which was brought to this world by those who fell from spiritual light into gross darkness.
Here are a few more to consider:
(1828.7) 166:3.3 “You also have another saying among you, and one that contains much truth: That the way which leads to eternal life is straight and narrow, that the door which leads thereto is likewise narrow so that, of those who seek salvation, few can find entrance through this door. You also have a teaching that the way which leads to destruction is broad, that the entrance thereto is wide, and that there are many who choose to go this way. And this proverb is not without its meaning. But I declare that salvation is first a matter of your personal choosing. Even if the door to the way of life is narrow, it is wide enough to admit all who sincerely seek to enter, for I am that door. And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.
Jesus didn’t say that only few would be admitted through the door leading to eternal life. He simply made it clear that it wouldn’t be easy but was nevertheless accessible to those who sincerely sought to enter:
(1829.4) 166:3.7 Slowly the apostles and many of the disciples were learning the meaning of Jesus’ early declaration: “Unless you are born again, born of the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Nevertheless, to all who are honest of heart and sincere in faith, it remains eternally true: “Behold, I stand at the doors of men’s hearts and knock, and if any man will open to me, I will come in and sup with him and will feed him with the bread of life; we shall be one in spirit and purpose, and so shall we ever be brethren in the long and fruitful service of the search for the Paradise Father.” And so, whether few or many are to be saved altogether depends on whether few or many will heed the invitation: “I am the door, I am the new and living way, and whosoever wills may enter to embark upon the endless truth-search for eternal life.”
(1829.5) 166:3.8 Even the apostles were unable fully to comprehend his teaching as to the necessity for using spiritual force for the purpose of breaking through all material resistance and for surmounting every earthly obstacle which might chance to stand in the way of grasping the all-important spiritual values of the new life in the spirit as the liberated sons of God.
(447.4) 40:5.19 As to the chances of mortal survival, let it be made forever clear: All souls of every possible phase of mortal existence will survive provided they manifest willingness to co-operate with their indwelling Adjusters and exhibit a desire to find God and to attain divine perfection, even though these desires be but the first faint flickers of the primitive comprehension of that “true light which lights every man who comes into the world.”
Jesus however warns us that to those who have been given much, then much will be asked of them….that those who have consciously refused entrance to the kingdom even after seeing the evidence of its power and instead indulge in selfish pleasures and delight in the works of iniquity, will not get another opportunity in the age to come:
(1829.1) 166:3.4 “But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness: Having refused to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience, they may subsequently seek entrance thereto when the glory of the better way becomes revealed in the age to come. And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut. This door is not open to those who would enter the kingdom for selfish glory. Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father’s will. When in spirit and soul you have turned your backs upon the Father’s kingdom, it is useless in mind and body to stand before this door and knock, saying, ‘Lord, open to us; we would also be great in the kingdom.’ Then will I declare that you are not of my fold. I will not receive you to be among those who have fought the good fight of faith and won the reward of unselfish service in the kingdom on earth. And when you say, ‘Did we not eat and drink with you, and did you not teach in our streets?’ then shall I again declare that you are spiritual strangers; that we were not fellow servants in the Father’s ministry of mercy on earth; that I do not know you; and then shall the Judge of all the earth say to you: ‘Depart from us, all you who have taken delight in the works of iniquity.’
I would be interested in hearing from those on this forum whose understanding of the Revelation far eclipses mine!!
Many years ago a fellow UB student presented a topical study on how many Urantians he thought would survive. I forgot what his theory was based on, but his conclusion was that not many would make it to mansonia or beyond.About 40 years ago, when I had my first real spiritual experiences, and a few years later, when I started studying the revelation, I was ecstatic. I was overwhelmed with the feeling that no matter what, everyone will make it. Even atheists. I was sure they were merely making a stand against the obvious errors of traditional religion and a few crooked priests.I grew up being indoctrinated with atheism and would not entertain the idea that because my close family members were disinclined to accept the importance of being open to accepting the gift of faith, they would not be salvable. I loved them too much.But I was young then and didn’t have the experience I do now.“his offspring close their hearts forever to the Father’s drawing power when they finally and forever lose the desire to do his divine will — to know him and to be like him”I’ve had this expressed to me repeatedly and very personally within my family. How the loss of desire for hunger and thirst for righteousness leads to the inability to distinguish “what really is right or wrong (not merely what you may call right and wrong)” and thereby they’ve “forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.”As I’ve gotten older, I sense this same problem in more and more folk. Not less, and I agree with your study group fellow. Not many will make it, however optimistic. And it’s just a part of God’s plan. He gave us a sovereign freewill. And most will simply refuse to use it in accordance with the Father’s will.(130:1.6) “Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest.”“Ganid, mercy may be lavish, but justice is precise.”Hurray! Julian you’re back. Thank God for that. Missed you.
As for the topic, I have no clue how many of this or that there are and I don’t really care. All I know is that the door is wide open and all are welcome. I know that the Spirit of Truth stands at the door and knocks loudly and constantly. I also know that mercy credits are huge and the love for each of us is immeasurable. Those who don’t survive must really, really, really not want to.
138:4.2 The door of the kingdom is wide open for all who desire to know the truth and to find God.
159:3.2 Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”
1.4.2 The physical bodies of mortals are “the temples of God.” Notwithstanding that the Sovereign Creator Sons come near the creatures of their inhabited worlds and “draw all men to themselves”; though they “stand at the door” of consciousness “and knock” and delight to come in to all who will “open the doors of their hearts”; although there does exist this intimate personal communion between the Creator Sons and their mortal creatures, nevertheless, mortal men have something from God himself which actually dwells within them; their bodies are the temples thereof.
Just because people falter and fail doesn’t mean that they aren’t given ample opportunity to correct their mistakes, especially on a world like this one where there is so much smoke and mirrors trying to waylay the truth. Succumbing to the stress of evolutionary struggle is not synonymous with self-annihilation. I think it means temporarily giving into doubt and confusion. If you don’t understand something, how can you really reject it? You just get tired of trying to understand; you grow weary of it all. I say those folks will be given ample opportunity to revitalize and gain insight before the universe accepts a final rejection of survival by a personality. Even the tiniest little flicker of faith will keep the light lit.
139:7.7 The presence of Matthew among the twelve was the means of keeping the doors of the kingdom wide open to hosts of downhearted and outcast souls who had regarded themselves as long since without the bounds of religious consolation. Outcast and despairing men and women flocked to hear Jesus, and he never turned one away.
139:12.7 Jesus wanted not only the mortals of this world but the onlookers of innumerable other worlds to know that, when doubts exist as to the sincerity and wholeheartedness of a creature’s devotion to the kingdom, it is the invariable practice of the Judges of men fully to receive the doubtful candidate. The door of eternal life is wide open to all; “whosoever will may come”; there are no restrictions or qualifications save the faith of the one who comes.
That being said, I’m currently of the mind that not many reach the third psychic circle in this life and make it to the mansion worlds on the “third day” after death of the body. But I keep swaying back and forth with that opinion since I don’t really know for sure what it takes to be considered a third circler other than what is written in TUB, and that has wiggle room for interpretation.
when Gods mercy is included in the topical study it’s a game changer. Lucifers situation comes to mind.
Lucifer’s situation is not the same as mortal man’s. Lucifer was born into life immortal, we are not.
If eternal life is God’s intention for man, why did he create the initial life to be time limited?
Is it because in order to live in his eternal heavenly kingdom, he needs you to wholeheartedly choose to do so first? And if not, did he need a way of separating those out who make the opposite decision by a simple technique of mortality?
If that’s all it is, a method of sifting, it’s very fair.
When I look at all of it taken together, the ancient traditions of religion, the sayings of the prophets, the detailed outlines of the Urantia Book, the uncompromising teachings of Jesus, what I see is that having been given the opportunity to survive, living this life right now is very serious business and throughout history we’ve been warned about it.
“God does not play dice with the universe.”
Einstein was right about that. But God created man so that he could choose to waste his flicker of life playing dice with the universe if he wants to.
There are far too many quotes which indicate the barriers to survival are far lower than for fusion…especially on such a world. Who has made that final rejection of truth unknown to us here? I think a good indicator of this reality is that the authors do not teach us that we must “save” souls to prevent such losses (a very real Christian teaching….save yourself and others from damnation!). We are to shine our light and grow our fruits and not to worry about the sawdust….or the destiny potential and safety….of others.
I do find the first 3 parts of the book different in some ways than the teachings of Jesus in Part IV….in that Jesus is teaching the path to fusion and spirit progress especially to his own apostles and disciples. His tender compassion and gentle mercy reflects that of the Father and I remain confident that all who can, have any potential (the flicker), do survive to allow that flicker to grow. Too many waste too much time IMO trying to quantify and qualify the “flicker”. Mercy is near endless we are taught….and impatience is poison. Are the gods impatient? Demanding? Indifferent? No, they are none of that.
Hurray! Julian you’re back. Thank God for that. Missed you.
Thank you Bonita for your lovely welcome back message. It’s so nice to be missed!!
I’m exactly halfway through 18 weeks of chemotherapy and although it’s pretty unpleasant, I’m managing okay and getting lots of support. It’s nice to be able to post some comments from time to time!
I feel much encouraged by your comments regarding mercy credits. I have been a recipient of God’s tender mercies throughout this trying time. I’m sure that all of us from time to time falter and fail….our faith can be severely tested….but even in the midst of our doubts, the Father is there, via our Thought Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth fraternizes with our TA and the Holy Spirit of our universe Mother. So I believe that the Universal Father overwhelmingly wants everyone to survive and does everything possible to make that a reality. This planet is a difficult case and the Gods understand that we exist in an environment of confusion, chaos, secularism, materialism, and hedonism. It can be tough maintaining our faith when there is no visible representative of the celestial government on our planet Urantia. What a victory it would be for Michael and his subordinates if the majority of the inhabitants of this so-called world of the cross embraced his call to open their hearts to his presence. Like Bradly and Bonita, I remain optimistic!
(1233.4) 112:5.8 The governments of Orvonton and Nebadon do not claim absolute perfection for the detail working of the universal plan of mortal repersonalization, but they do claim to, and actually do, manifest patience, tolerance, understanding, and merciful sympathy. We had rather assume the risk of a system rebellion than to court the hazard of depriving one struggling mortal from any evolutionary world of the eternal joy of pursuing the ascending career.
(1233.5) 112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.
Julian wrote: I’m exactly halfway through 18 weeks of chemotherapy and although it’s pretty unpleasant, I’m managing okay and getting lots of support. It’s nice to be able to post some comments from time to time!And it’s really nice to hear from you time to time! My heart goes out to you Julian. I can’t imagine going through what you’re going through. You have my best wishes and prayers, that’s for sure. I’m so glad you have the strength to read and opine. You’ve always been a stabilizing presence here.
I agree that we all falter and fail. I do every day. I’m certain that my ability to do God’s will is erratic and frustrating to him. I’m so grateful for his lavish mercy and the many, many opportunities he provides to try again. Another quote that often gives me comfort is this one:
39:4.13 Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction – consciousness of achievement – and this transcends any conceivable material reward.
The way we do things is more important than what we actually do. That’s profound to me. Doesn’t that mean it’s about our attitude toward life, toward God and toward others? That’s why I really like those four faith attitudes Jesus talked about. I think they are the starting point for turning the mind around and facing reality. And isn’t it Jesus who showed us how to do that? What a wonderful teacher! And he still lives . . . that’s the beauty of it all.
155:6.11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness— justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.
I was right by my wife’s side for a similar procedure.
extraordinarily difficult.
Shes healthy 7 years later
Lot’s of good stuff. Thanks to all for adding comments! Several times I’ve reread everything each of you has posted and I find a sweetness and coherency to the references and your comments pertaining to the references. Just to let you know, I am not personally concerned about whether few or many survive the evolutionary struggle. I find that many times a topic evolves and branches into other interesting discussion subjects, and so while no one has ventured a guess about whether few or many get to mansonia, I see a number of branches to pursue that you have suggested.
(One qualification though. I do hope the people I know and love, particularly family, do realize that flicker of faith to get at least a toehold in the door which Jesus is and of which he speaks. I hope they avail themselves of those mercy credits if, as it turns out, their faith is so weak as to be but a tiny flicker. I want them to be with me on greatest adventure in all creation. If those family members falter, fail or grow weary of the evolutionary struggle to the point of choosing not to do God’s will, I will have a huge hurdle of disappointment to overcome in the bye-and bye. I feel emotional and sad just thinking about it. I can’t be the only UB reader who thinks about a loved one or several choosing not to survive. We talk about this from time to time in study group.)
Gene asked, “I am curious how we would know if someone falters and fails? We are really only guessing, no?”
I think it’s impossible to know the answer. Only God knows. I am acquainted with several avowed atheists and have several family members who claim to be. But I look at it this way: Anyone at anytime can change his/her mind about God. And that’s why I have undying hope. As long as a person’s mind is operational, there’s hope. One thing I’ve observed in myself and in other UB readers. There exists the *spirit* of the crusader within. Haven’t you tried to get people interested in the book? If promoting the book is not your thing, don’t you find yourself immensely interested in the people with whom you associate every day? And don’t you find yourself fascinated with how people think about religion, as well as what they think? I do. For me it’s not about trying to *save the world* or save anything. To me any chance meeting with someone could be serendipitous. Possibilities abound.
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