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It’s not the body.
but the age old idea of being able to see the body as something different than or separate from the soul was a great thing no matter how misunderstood it may have been.
Keeping in mind that the body can influence the spirit factor of the entire mechanism, where hormones and even the differences between sexes, physically can have an effect, can still be a major factor. There has been evidence, primarily in females that their physical components, and how they are arranged, can play a part in their psychosis (if any), is dependent on alignment. In many confirmed cases, after surgery, to alleviate certain pressure points, many psychoses displayed where eliminated. Therefore, psychiatry and psychology, needs to take these factors into account before making incorrect evaluations, because it is the body that can effect the whole.
Gene wrote: Also, Being borne perfect prior to Eve’s original sin is still deeply ingrained in Christianity.And this is tied to the erroneous idea of the pre-existence of the soul. Plato believed in reincarnation. He also believed that the soul is what provides life to the body. (Which means the soul must come before birth in his philosophy, since the fetus is alive.) His ideas were mixed up, but I suppose useful in some respects, but not so in others. I keep wondering what TUB means when it says that Islam offered deliverance from the strict moral standards of Christianity (5:4.5). Was asceticism and abstinence too much for them? Is that Plato and Paul’s fault?
What I really can’t understand about Eve’s original sin is where does the great flood fit into the scheme? I thought God was fed up with humans and their sins and wiped them all out except a few righteous. How is it that we all fell from grace again since the flood? It seems that God didn’t fix the problem at all. That’s not very godlike, is it? So, then he had to try and fix the problem again by sacrificing his own son? Yet that certainly didn’t put an end to it either since there are still a ridiculous number of sinning people on the planet. It seems that God is impotent in this scenario. There’s no logic in it. None at all. What kind of God keeps failing? Duh! I never bought this story, even as a young kid. It makes no sense. No wonder everyone is waiting for the end of the world when God will finally do his job and get rid of evil. Jeesh.
What I really can’t understand about Eve’s original sin is where does the great flood fit into the scheme? I thought God was fed up with humans and their sins and wiped them all out except a few righteous. How is it that we all fell from grace again since the flood? It seems that God didn’t fix the problem at all. That’s not very godlike, is it? So, then he had to try and fix the problem again by sacrificing his own son? Yet that certainly didn’t put an end to it either since there are still a ridiculous number of sinning people on the planet. It seems that God is impotent in this scenario. There’s no logic in it. None at all. What kind of God keeps failing? Duh! I never bought this story, even as a young kid. It makes no sense. No wonder everyone is waiting for the end of the world when God will finally do his job and get rid of evil. Jeesh.
I tend to agree, but in Sumerian text translated by some, the flood was a flood of ultraviolet light which either forced certain entities to move, underground or parish. Also, the sacrificial lamb aspect could be considered just a means of moving into another or different realm?
And all of this cleansing is believed to have been miraculous
so much for miracles eh?
by now it should be obvious that these are our issues to deal with but so many continue to rely on miracles.
like the saying: it’s gods will, not my will. I believe God would be pleased if we quit saying that.
but sacrifice also remains intrenched in some religions – some more literally than others. The idea I suppose being to appease an angry God that will miraculously wipe us out if we get it wrong.
the other miracle water/flood story: Moses parting the sea just long enough to escape then flooding the Egyptians, using or channeling Gods power to do it
But all this stuff has value
it kept religion going and helped civilization hold together for a long time
POPPYCOCK ALERT: It is not the body that affects the whole.
Mind is dominant over matter. Spirit is dominant over mind. Always. The body, and its issues, can only affect a weak, immature and undisciplined mind in a personality who desires it to do so.
42:12.15 Mind universally dominates matter, even as it is in turn responsive to the ultimate overcontrol of spirit.
The personality is the unifier of all the parts of the whole.
112:0.7 5. Personality, while devoid of identity, can unify the identity of any living energy system.
HISTORICAL DATA ALERT: Hysteria in females was once believed to be caused by a wandering, or misaligned uterus. Many hysterectomies were performed with the hope of healing crazy women. Obviously, the idea is ridiculous, but it did result in the invention of the vibrator as a cure for female hysteria.
From wikipedia: Wandering womb was the belief that a displaced uterus was the cause of many medical pathologies in women. The belief originates in the medical texts of ancient Greece, although the belief persisted in European academic medicine for centuries.
The concept of hysteria caused by “wandering womb” continued to be taught from one generation of medical researchers to the next in Europe up until the early modern era. Medical researchers developed a better understanding of anatomy after the invention of microscopes in the 17th century and cellular research in the 19th century. Sigmund Freud’s theory of the free-floating unconscious, the “mind within the mind”, was similar to the ancient belief in the “animal within the animal”. Both “wandering womb” and “hysteria” are unused in medical theories of today.
I do have a book about the life and religion of mohammed
maybe when I get around to reading it I’ll get some clues about that question you raised
Mind is dominant over matter. Spirit is dominant over mind. Always. The body, and its issues, can only affect a weak, immature and undisciplined mind in a personality who desires it to do so.
So, if I understand correctly, all people who have or are suffering from some medical issue or physical issue, like a Brain Aneurysm, where a portion of their brain no longer functions, can be cured through the minds domination of matter or, can regrow limbs etc.? Not to mention, that those individuals who suffer from some mental disability are only “weak, immature and undisciplined”?
Hysteria in females was once believed to be caused by a wandering, or misaligned uterus. Many hysterectomies were performed with the hope of healing crazy women. Obviously, the idea is ridiculous, but it did result in the invention of the vibrator as a cure for female hysteria.
I presented the information in my post in such a way as to leave it open for interpretation, but it had nothing to do with what was assumed here. I will lookup the material and post it, if you wish more precise information and confirmed documentation, with case studies? To quick to assume or find fault, par for the coarse. You really can’t ask questions, to get a more defined definition when a response or post, is not understood. Would you like a detailed explanation of what I posted, you’d be surprised at the information?
It seems to me that the phenomenon of mind dominance of matter is poorly understood by some. Mind intervenes between matter and spirit. Being in the “center” of reality, mind has the ability to look both ways. Therefore, mind is the mechanism by which matter can be controlled and eventually dominated by spirit.
(1110.11) 101:5.8 3. The human mind, the mechanism for intercommunication and interassociation between spirit and matter, between the material and the spiritual.
Mind governed by personality has the opportunity to choose between allowing physical matter to have its way, or allowing spirit to dominate its relationship to physical matter. Mind cannot perform feats of magic in the realm of physical matter. It cannot operate outside the laws of physics, but it can modify physical reality, within those laws, for its own benefit.
111:6.5 When man wishes to modify physical reality, be it himself or his environment, he succeeds to the extent that he has discovered the ways and means of controlling matter and directing energy. Unaided mind is impotent to influence anything material save its own physical mechanism, with which it is inescapably linked. But through the intelligent use of the body mechanism, mind can create other mechanisms, even energy relationships and living relationships, by the utilization of which this mind can increasingly control and even dominate its physical level in the universe.
90:3.1 Modern man attacks his material problems directly; he recognizes that matter is responsive to the intelligent manipulation of mind.
Physical handicaps, which can also affect the brain, may cause delays but cannot affect spirit.
116:5.15 The spirit struggles of time and space have to do with the evolution of spirit dominance over matter by the mediation of (personal) mind; the physical (nonpersonal) evolution of the universes has to do with bringing cosmic energy into harmony with the equilibrium concepts of mind subject to the overcontrol of spirit.
65:8.5 In the cosmic evolutionary laboratories mind is always dominant over matter, and spirit is ever correlated with mind. Failure of these diverse endowments to synchronize and co-ordinate may cause time delays, but if the individual really knows God and desires to find him and become like him, then survival is assured regardless of the handicaps of time. Physical status may handicap mind, and mental perversity may delay spiritual attainment, but none of these obstacles can defeat the whole-souled choice of will.
If ever there was a greater example of mind dominance over the body it is Stephen Hawking. His body is essentially useless, but his mind is in control. I’m not sure if spirit has gained dominance in his mind, but there is certainly always hope. It is important in the growth of self-mastery to progress in both mind control over matter and spirit dominance of mind. One way to accomplish control over one’s mind is prayer. We are told that prayer cannot heal all diseases, but it can heal mental attitudes toward disease, which I’m sure is something that Stephen Hawking has accomplished on some level.
91:6.2 Prayer is not a technique for curing real and organic diseases, but it has contributed enormously to the enjoyment of abundant health and to the cure of numerous mental, emotional, and nervous ailments. And even in actual bacterial disease, prayer has many times added to the efficacy of other remedial procedures. Prayer has turned many an irritable and complaining invalid into a paragon of patience and made him an inspiration to all other human sufferers.
Prayer is a way to improve spirit dominance over mind, which gives it the power to dominate matter, more or less defying material gravity. A mind succumbing to the physical level of existence becomes more susceptible to material gravity and less susceptible to spiritual gravity. Only that which is responsive to spiritual gravity can survive, and prayer is one way to connect to spiritual gravity. Spirituality is measured inversely to physical gravity response.
(140.6) 12:8.10 1. Matter. Organized energy which is subject to linear gravity except as it is modified by motion and conditioned by mind.
(140.7) 12:8.11 2. Mind. Organized consciousness which is not wholly subject to material gravity, and which becomes truly liberated when modified by spirit.
(140.8) 12:8.12 3. Spirit. The highest personal reality. True spirit is not subject to physical gravity but eventually becomes the motivating influence of all evolving energy systems of
42:11.4 The higher mind levels of the universe — the spirit-mind levels — may also be nonspatial, but the levels of material mind, such as human mind, are responsive to the interactions of universe gravitation, losing this response only in proportion to spirit identification. Spirit-reality levels are recognized by their spirit content, and spirituality in time and space is measured inversely to the linear-gravity response.
1:3.7 Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.
Mind universally dominates matter. A mind incapable of dominating matter is not a mind. There may be electrochemical brain activity, but without volition, without personality, without mind ministry, it is only an energy system destined to disintegrate according to the laws of physics. Dust to dust. Dust not subjected to the over control of living and personal mind is just dust.
42:10.1 This eternal cycle of energy, being circuited in the Father of universes, is absolute and, being absolute, is expansile in neither fact nor value; nevertheless the Primal Father is even now — as always — self-realizing of an ever-expanding arena of time-space, and of time-space-transcended, meanings, an arena of changing relationships wherein energy-matter is being progressively subjected to the overcontrol of living and divine spirit through the experiential striving of living and personal mind.
Earlier we were talking about the Greek influence on philosophy and religion. The Greeks considered the material creation to be a shadow of a more real and lasting spiritual substance. TUB tells us that this idea has significance, but it does not negate the reality of physical matter nor diminish its relevance. It simply puts physical reality in its proper place in terms of value. Clearly, spiritual reality has more value than material reality in terms of quality. Spirit substance is value and quality, which is why it lasts.
12:8.16 And so your Greek figure of speech — the material as the shadow of the more real spirit substance — does have a philosophic significance.
12:8.15 In cosmic evolution matter becomes a philosophic shadow cast by mind in the presence of spirit luminosity of divine enlightenment, but this does not invalidate the reality of matter-energy. Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity. Consciousness of divinity is a progressive spiritual experience.
7:1.3 Spirit realities respond to the drawing power of the center of spiritual gravity in accordance with their qualitative value, their actual degree of spirit nature. Spirit substance (quality) is just as responsive to spirit gravity as the organized energy of physical matter (quantity) is responsive to physical gravity. Spiritual values and spirit forces are real. From the viewpoint of personality, spirit is the soul of creation; matter is the shadowy physical body.
And this is why it is so important to grow in self-control, mastery over one’s material self by doing God’s will (spiritual dominance). This is the transfer of dominance we are all working towards. It is the purpose of the psychic or cosmic circles and part of the evolution of Supremacy. It must be done. Physical handicaps may delay in terms of time, but the work still must be done. Fortunately, mind can defy time to a certain extent, and that is a blessing. It is also why Jesus refused to put limits on creative human imagination; he came to give the soul wings and freedom to fly untethered to its shadow.
12:5.5 Man’s mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man’s mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.
179:5.4 He did not wish to destroy the individual’s concept of divine communion by establishing a precise form; neither did he desire to limit the believer’s spiritual imagination by formally cramping it. He rather sought to set man’s reborn soul free upon the joyous wings of a new and living spiritual liberty.
65:8.5 In the cosmic evolutionary laboratories mind is always dominant over matter, and spirit is ever correlated with mind. Failure of these diverse endowments to synchronize and co-ordinate may cause time delays, but if the individual really knows God and desires to find him and become like him, then survival is assured regardless of the handicaps of time. Physical status may handicap mind, and mental perversity may delay spiritual attainment, but none of these obstacles can defeat the whole-souled choice of will.
(740.2) 65:8.6 When physical conditions are ripe, sudden mental evolutions may take place; when mind status is propitious, sudden spiritual transformations may occur; when spiritual values receive proper recognition, then cosmic meanings become discernible, and increasingly the personality is released from the handicaps of time and delivered from the limitations of space.
(739.8) 65:8.4 As mind evolution is dependent on, and delayed by, the slow development of physical conditions, so is spiritual progress dependent on mental expansion and unfailingly delayed by intellectual retardation. But this does not mean that spiritual evolution is dependent on education, culture, or wisdom. The soul may evolve regardless of mental culture but not in the absence of mental capacity and desire — the choice of survival and the decision to achieve ever-increasing perfection — to do the will of the Father in heaven. Although survival may not depend on the possession of knowledge and wisdom, progression most certainly does.
Cosmic evolutionary laboratories are the evolutionary bodies of time and space. The word “laboratories” is metaphorical. Read the entire section:
8. Evolution in Time and Space
(739.5) 65:8.1 Time and space are indissolubly linked; there is an innate association. The delays of time are inevitable in the presence of certain space conditions.
(739.6) 65:8.2 If spending so much time in effecting the evolutionary changes of life development occasions perplexity, I would say that we cannot time the life processes to unfold any faster than the physical metamorphoses of a planet will permit. We must wait upon the natural, physical development of a planet; we have absolutely no control over geologic evolution. If the physical conditions would allow, we could arrange for the completed evolution of life in considerably less than one million years. But we are all under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Rulers of Paradise, and time is nonexistent on Paradise.
(739.7) 65:8.3 The individual’s yardstick for time measurement is the length of his life. All creatures are thus time conditioned, and therefore do they regard evolution as being a long-drawn-out process. To those of us whose life span is not limited by a temporal existence, evolution does not seem to be such a protracted transaction. On Paradise, where time is nonexistent, these things are all present in the mind of Infinity and the acts of Eternity.
(739.8) 65:8.4 As mind evolution is dependent on, and delayed by, the slow development of physical conditions, so is spiritual progress dependent on mental expansion and unfailingly delayed by intellectual retardation. But this does not mean that spiritual evolution is dependent on education, culture, or wisdom. The soul may evolve regardless of mental culture but not in the absence of mental capacity and desire — the choice of survival and the decision to achieve ever-increasing perfection — to do the will of the Father in heaven. Although survival may not depend on the possession of knowledge and wisdom, progression most certainly does.
(740.1) 65:8.5 In the cosmic evolutionary laboratories mind is always dominant over matter, and spirit is ever correlated with mind. Failure of these diverse endowments to synchronize and co-ordinate may cause time delays, but if the individual really knows God and desires to find him and become like him, then survival is assured regardless of the handicaps of time. Physical status may handicap mind, and mental perversity may delay spiritual attainment, but none of these obstacles can defeat the whole-souled choice of will.
(740.2) 65:8.6 When physical conditions are ripe, sudden mental evolutions may take place; when mind status is propitious, sudden spiritual transformations may occur; when spiritual values receive proper recognition, then cosmic meanings become discernible, and increasingly the personality is released from the handicaps of time and delivered from the limitations of space.
It seems to me that the phenomenon of mind dominance of matter is poorly understood by some.
thats me. But you have a talent for helping my understand how the revelation makes this concept clear. Thank you.
your right about Hawking. The last thing I heard he was working on was trying to prove that our universe could come into being without a God. that caught my interest because it is a step ahead of the Big Bang in that he brings God into the equation – why would he do that- there’s hope for him.
(740.2) 65:8.6 When physical conditions are ripe, sudden mental evolutions may take place; when mind status is propitious, sudden spiritual transformations may occur; when spiritual values receive proper recognition, then cosmic meanings become discernible, and increasingly the personality is released from the handicaps of time and delivered from the limitations of space.
Mind evolution refers to the ability of the adjutant mind spirits to make contact with physical life. Likewise, physical life cannot be implanted prior to the occurrence of proper physical conditions on the planet. Not only is there is purpose to everything (or almost everything) but there is also a time for everything.
Mental evolutions, guided by spirit may result in spiritual transformation if there is total willingness and desire. Such evolutions may come slowly or all of a sudden depending upon individual circumstances. But regardless, the personality must be wholly focused on the desire for supreme ideals. Mental mobilization must be absolutely total. This means mind is wholeheartedly desiring spirit dominance. Nothing is mentioned of physical reality, but we do know that a mind without physical toxins and mental poisons performs best in this regard. We may not have absolute control over physical toxins, which would only cause delay; but, we do have complete control over mental poisons – bad attitudes.
100:5.3 It should be made clear that professions of loyalty to the supreme ideals — the psychic, emotional, and spiritual awareness of God-consciousness — may be a natural and gradual growth or may sometimes be experienced at certain junctures, as in a crisis. The Apostle Paul experienced just such a sudden and spectacular conversion that eventful day on the Damascus road. Gautama Siddhartha had a similar experience the night he sat alone and sought to penetrate the mystery of final truth. Many others have had like experiences, and many true believers have progressed in the spirit without sudden conversion.
100:5.4 Most of the spectacular phenomena associated with so-called religious conversions are entirely psychologic in nature, but now and then there do occur experiences which are also spiritual in origin. When the mental mobilization is absolutely total on any level of the psychic upreach toward spirit attainment, when there exists perfection of the human motivation of loyalties to the divine idea, then there very often occurs a sudden down-grasp of the indwelling spirit to synchronize with the concentrated and consecrated purpose of the superconscious mind of the believing mortal. And it is such experiences of unified intellectual and spiritual phenomena that constitute the conversion which consists in factors over and above purely psychologic involvement.
Cosmic evolutionary laboratories are the evolutionary bodies of time and space. The word “laboratories” is metaphorical. Read the entire section:
(161.7) 14:6.20 The Havona worlds are the mind laboratory of the creators of the cosmic mind and the ministers to every creature mind in existence. Mind is different on each Havona world and serves as the pattern for all spiritual and material creature intellects.
(387.5) 35:3.4 2. The world of the physical-life schools and the laboratories of living energies.
(735.3) 65:4.4 This chemical action and reaction concerned in wound healing and cell reproduction represents the choice of the Life Carriers of a formula embracing over one hundred thousand phases and features of possible chemical reactions and biologic repercussions. More than half a million specific experiments were made by the Life Carriers in their laboratories before they finally settled upon this formula for the Urantia life experiment.
Urantia is an experimental planet. Experiments are performed in laboratories. Urantia is a laboratory.
36:2.15 The life now evolving on Urantia was planned and partially worked out on this very world, for Urantia is a decimal planet, a life-experiment world. On one world in each ten a greater variance in the standard life designs is permitted than on the other (nonexperimental) worlds.
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