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The attitude of fear regarding our safety or fairness in God’s creation is disturbing to me. The accusation that Gabriel is, was, or is even capable of anger, revenge, etc. is the seed of doubt whose harvest will not be good and can only serve to feed the fear regarding fairness and safety. The suggestion that the response to this rebellion is subject to any one individual, even Michael’s first born, is inaccurate to say the least. It might be interesting to outline the entire administrative “response team” that is charged with the application of mercy and justice just to identify how many different beings of how many different orders and that hierarchy engaged in that response.
It appears to me that Van may have been the first to defy the claims of Lucifer and Caligastia that they were now God and subject to the worship of their wards and their associates. And the Most Highs were involved from the first utterance of rebellion and the actual claim that there is no God. I see only process….slow and steady and restrained and evolved by an entire staff of organized celestials to consider how best to respond. Notice the role of the Most Highs here regarding our planetary situation:
(755.4) 67:2.2 The presentation of this astounding demand was followed by the masterly appeal of Van, chairman of the supreme council of co-ordination. This distinguished administrator and able jurist branded the proposed course of Caligastia as an act bordering on planetary rebellion and appealed to his conferees to abstain from all participation until an appeal could be taken to Lucifer, the System Sovereign of Satania; and he won the support of the entire staff. Accordingly, appeal was taken to Jerusem, and forthwith came back the orders designating Caligastia as supreme sovereign on Urantia and commanding absolute and unquestioning allegiance to his mandates. And it was in reply to this amazing message that the noble Van made his memorable address of seven hours’ length in which he formally drew his indictment of Daligastia, Caligastia, and Lucifer as standing in contempt of the sovereignty of the universe of Nebadon; and he appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia for support and confirmation.
(755.7) 67:2.5 Seraphim and cherubim and other celestial beings were involved in the decisions of this bitter struggle, this long and sinful conflict. Many superhuman groups that chanced to be on Urantia at the time of its isolation were detained here and, like the seraphim and their associates, were compelled to choose between sin and righteousness — between the ways of Lucifer and the will of the unseen Father.
(756.1) 67:2.6 For more than seven years this struggle continued. Not until every personality concerned had made a final decision, would or did the authorities of Edentia interfere or intervene. Not until then did Van and his loyal associates receive vindication and release from their prolonged anxiety and intolerable suspense.
And the Most Highs continued in their hands on administrative role:
(605.8) 53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father — the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned — in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.
(181.6) 15:13.6 The administrators of the minor sector governments are under the immediate jurisdiction of the major sector rulers. The Recents of Days receive all reports of observations and co-ordinate all recommendations which come up to a superuniverse from the Unions of Days who are stationed as Trinity observers and advisers on the headquarters spheres of the local universes and from the Faithfuls of Days who are similarly attached to the councils of the Most Highs at the headquarters of the constellations. All such reports are transmitted to the Perfections of Days on the major sectors, subsequently to be passed on to the courts of the Ancients of Days. Thus the Trinity regime extends from the constellations of the local universes up to the headquarters of the superuniverse. The local system headquarters do not have Trinity representatives.
Of Uversa:
(182.1) 15:14.2 Orvonton, the seventh superuniverse, the one to which your local universe belongs, is known chiefly because of its tremendous and lavish bestowal of merciful ministry to the mortals of the realms. It is renowned for the manner in which justice prevails as tempered by mercy and power rules as conditioned by patience, while the sacrifices of time are freely made to secure the stabilization of eternity. Orvonton is a universe demonstration of love and mercy.
And while there are multiple levels of beings and decision makers and process between Van, the Most Highs, and Gabriel, there are many more between Gabriel and the Divine Counselor…..the end of the line so to speak:
(218.2) 19:4.4 Whenever and wherever a Universal Censor is present, then and there is the judgment of Deity. And since the Censors always render their verdicts in liaison with Perfectors of Wisdom and Divine Counselors, such decisions embrace the united wisdom, counsel, and judgment of the Paradise Trinity. In this juridical trio the Perfector of Wisdom would be the “I was,” the Divine Counselor the “I will be,” but the Universal Censor is always “I am.”
(218.3) 19:4.5 The Censors are universe totaling personalities. When a thousand witnesses have given testimony — or a million — when the voice of wisdom has spoken and the counsel of divinity has recorded, when the testimony of ascendant perfection has been added, then the Censor functions, and there is immediately revealed an unerring and divine totaling of all that has transpired; and such a disclosure represents the divine conclusion, the sum and substance of a final and perfect decision. Therefore, when a Censor has spoken, no one else may speak, for the Censor has depicted the true and unmistakable total of all that has gone before. When he speaks, there is no appeal.
The first 5 Papers are authored by such a one:
(32.1) 1:7.9 [Presented by a Divine Counselor, a member of a group of celestial personalities assigned by the Ancients of Days on Uversa, the headquarters of the seventh superuniverse, to supervise those portions of this forthcoming revelation which have to do with affairs beyond the borders of the local universe of Nebadon. I am commissioned to sponsor those papers portraying the nature and attributes of God because I represent the highest source of information available for such a purpose on any inhabited world. I have served as a Divine Counselor in all seven of the superuniverses and have long resided at the Paradise center of all things. Many times have I enjoyed the supreme pleasure of a sojourn in the immediate personal presence of the Universal Father. I portray the reality and truth of the Father’s nature and attributes with unchallengeable authority; I know whereof I speak.]
Paper 1 – The Universal Father
Paper 2 – The Nature of God
Paper 3 – The Attributes of God
Paper 4 – God’s Relation to the Universe
Paper 5 – God’s Relation to the Individual(71.7) 5:6.12 Concerning those personalities who are not Adjuster indwelt: The attribute of choice-liberty is also bestowed by the Universal Father, and such persons are likewise embraced in the great circuit of divine love, the personality circuit of the Universal Father. God provides for the sovereign choice of all true personalities. No personal creature can be coerced into the eternal adventure; the portal of eternity opens only in response to the freewill choice of the freewill sons of the God of free will.
(72.1) 5:6.13 And this represents my efforts to present the relation of the living God to the children of time. And when all is said and done, I can do nothing more helpful than to reiterate that God is your universe Father, and that you are all his planetary children.
(72.2) 5:6.14 [This is the fifth and last of the series presenting the narrative of the Universal Father by a Divine Counselor of Uversa.]
To suspect, to doubt, to fear…..is to disconnect oneself from reality and from truth. Are we done here yet?
Are we done here yet?
Apologies Bonita…I did not mean done with the topic which I find very interesting, even compelling; I meant with the rebellion adjudication process only. Our need to discern and measure and gain wisdom requires judgment to be sure. I look forward to more discussion on the topic at hand. Thank you all.
To suspect, to doubt, to fear…..is to disconnect oneself from reality and from truth. Are we done here yet?
No we are not. Gabriel took action against the rebels and was stopped. He knew that Michael and Immanuel wanted to have the Local universe administration to remain aloof. Gabriel defied Michael and Immanuel and was reigned in.
(605.8) 53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father — the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned — in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.
Since Michael would not act, and for good reason, Gabriel went around Michael and spoke with the Vorondadeks. He “elected to assume command”. Gabriel then displayed the banner of Michael, and this was to “falsely proclaim” that he had Michael’s and Immanuel’s blessing, when he did NOT.
Read you own post, Bradly, and read it more carefully. Remove those shades you wear in order to see more clearly.
Bradly wrote: The attitude of fear regarding our safety or fairness in God’s creation is disturbing to me.Me too. Michael petitioned to have the lunatics locked up in order to make sure we are safe. He sent his Spirit of Truth to protect us from their sophistry. He is busy working on stabilizing his universe by eliminating confusion. That which will not coordinate with cosmic reality will be destroyed. That is the way of the universe and it is ultimately fair.
p241:1 21:5.4 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
Since Michael would not act, and for good reason, Gabriel went around Michael and spoke with the Vorondadeks. He “elected to assume command”. Gabriel then displayed the banner of Michael, and this was to “falsely proclaim” that he had Michael’s and Immanuel’s blessing, when he did NOT.
Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives). What is your agenda in posting these beliefs? What do you hope will happen? Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel? To what end?
Me too. Michael petitioned to have the lunatics locked up in order to make sure we are safe. He sent his Spirit of Truth to protect us from their sophistry. He is busy working on stabilizing his universe by eliminating confusion. That which will not coordinate with cosmic reality will be destroyed. That is the way of the universe and it is ultimately fair.
Answer this for me then Bonita. Why was the “lunatic” Satan allowed to roam free until recently?
Is it at all possible that the others were interned for their own protection? This is known as protective custody. Is it possible that Michael was keeping his warring children apart so that no harm will come till full mercy and adjudication is completed?
Is it possible that Satan was the only one of the rebels that did not accept mercy? Is it possible that Satan was used to test the remainder of the rebel planets that were on the fence? Perhaps Satan found himself alone in the end and that is why Christ Michael said “Get thee behind me Satan”. Perhaps he did not mention the others because he triumphant at bringing them back to the fold.
Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives). What is your agenda in posting these beliefs? What do you hope will happen? Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel? To what end?
My only agenda is to search out truth.
I hope and know that God’s will be done.
I am selling nothing, not even TUB. TUB is perfectly honest. No Urantia Book author is a liar. I can only state that all persons, save absolute persons, have biases and point out this fact.
To what end? There is no end to truth. The search for God is endless in eternity.
Bradly wrote: Apologies Bonita…I did not mean done with the topic which I find very interesting, even compelling; I meant with the rebellion adjudication process only.Hey, no problem. I’ve been done for a while now. The doors of my soul are completely sealed to such sophistry. It amazes me how close it comes to the Manifesto ideology. Remarkable, actually. One wonders what the consequences of such erroneous thinking might be. They say that it is experienced only on the level of actual performance (p761:3 67:7.4). That would be this forum, right?
Keryn wrote:Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives). What is your agenda in posting these beliefs? What do you hope will happen? Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel? To what end?Great question Keryn. Really great. I’ve been wondering the same thing. It seems to me that whenever the rebellion comes up chaos ensues. Sometimes I wonder if that’s the plan, as if Lucifer’s minions are still wreaking havoc. At least only one rebellion addict has been swayed by the sophistry; the rest seem pretty solidly closed to it.Sometimes I wonder if that’s the plan, as if Lucifer’s minions are still wreaking havoc.
I think they would be pleased to have the UB fail. I am sure they would be pleased to have key people stumble and fail, entertain doubts or go off the rail. They are probably happy when others stumble too. But things have to be very dire in a person’s mind I think to where they have willfully and persistently pursued sin and error and when they have rejected truth or twisted it. Remember this one concerning the shadow of a hair’s turning:
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48:6:33 Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life, which is the law. Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.Regarding justice:
104:2:5 For example: The Master, when on earth, admonished his followers that justice is never a personal act; it is always a group function. Neither do the Gods, as persons, administer justice. But they perform this very function as a collective whole, as the Paradise Trinity.So justice is a group function huh? Well what does this group have to say about it? I know what I’d like it to say, “Go away and stay away!” The door is shut.
Hey, no problem. I’ve been done for a while now. The doors of my soul are completely sealed to such sophistry. It amazes me how close it comes to the Manifesto ideology. Remarkable, actually. One wonders what the consequences of such erroneous thinking might be. They say that it is experienced only on the level of actual performance (p761:3 67:7.4). That would be this forum, right?
In shutting the door to your soul you risk suffocation for your eyes, the windows to the soul are also sealed. You are blinded. You refer to the “Manifesto” as if you know of it first hand or have read a transcript of it. It matters not what the Manifesto says, you are blind and deaf. You do not care, even if to disagree with it. You are one to condemn without evidence or testimony. Your soul has been locked for some time now.
Great question Keryn. Really great. I’ve been wondering the same thing. It seems to me that whenever the rebellion comes up chaos ensues. Sometimes I wonder if that’s the plan, as if Lucifer’s minions are still wreaking havoc. At least only one rebellion addict has been swayed by the sophistry; the rest seem pretty solidly closed to it.
You continue to wonder about many things and you see nothing because you are blinded. The rebels are interned and Jesus ended the rebellion almost two thousand years ago. Are you afraid of me? I cannot harm you so please don’t close off your soul on my account. I am not in any prison and my soul is open for the business of the Father. The only thing I am addicted to is love.
67:7.5 Evil and sin visit their consequences in material and social realms and may sometimes even retard spiritual progress on certain levels of universe reality, but never does the sin of any being rob another of the realization of the divine right of personality survival. Eternal survival can be jeopardized only by the decisions of the mind and the choice of the soul of the individual himself.
No matter what you think of me, the decisions of the mind and the choice of your soul is the only thing that can jeopardize your eternal survival. Open the door to your soul before it is forever sealed.
I think they would be pleased to have the UB fail. I am sure they would be pleased to have key people stumble and fail, entertain doubts or go off the rail. They are probably happy when others stumble too. But things have to be very dire in a person’s mind I think to where they have willfully and persistently pursued sin and error and when they have rejected truth or twisted it. Remember this one concerning the shadow of a hair’s turning:
The Urantia Book would necessarily need to have a specific agenda if it were subject to success or failure. Only persons can succeed or fail. If you, Mara, give TUB the status of a person then you have made an IDOL. You nor anyone else can presume to know anyone’s mind. Only God can know this, yet you are SURE that some are pleased and happy to have others stumble. Are you fully aware of what you have written here?
48:6:33 Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life, which is the law. Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.
Do you you fully realize that in using this quote to make your point you reach the heights of hypocrisy? Remember that God is watching you do all of this.
So justice is a group function huh? Well what does this group have to say about it? I know what I’d like it to say, “Go away and stay away!” The door is shut.
So, is this forum about to be commissioned as a tribunal. Is this how you would silence a brother? Shut the door on a brother and you slam the door in God’s face.
“Judge not lest ye be judged.”
165:3.2 “What I have many times said to my apostles and to my disciples, I now declare to this multitude: Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy, born of prejudice and nurtured in traditional bondage, albeit many of these Pharisees are honest of heart and some of them abide here as my disciples. Presently all of you shall understand my teaching, for there is nothing now covered that shall not be revealed. That which is now hid from you shall all be made known when the Son of Man has completed his mission on earth and in the flesh.
175:1.17 “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees and all other hypocrites who make sure that they tithe mint, anise, and cumin and at the same time disregard the weightier matters of the law — faith, mercy, and judgment! Within reason, the one you ought to have done but not to have left the other undone. You are truly blind guides and dumb teachers; you strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.
And then there’s this:
(1570.14) 140:3.13 “You are the light of the world. A city set upon a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and be led to glorify your Father who is in heaven.
(1571.1) 140:3.14 “I am sending you out into the world to represent me and to act as ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom, and as you go forth to proclaim the glad tidings, put your trust in the Father whose messengers you are. Do not forcibly resist injustice; put not your trust in the arm of the flesh. If your neighbor smites you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Be willing to suffer injustice rather than to go to law among yourselves. In kindness and with mercy minister to all who are in distress and in need.
(1571.2) 140:3.15 “I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And whatsoever you believe that I would do to men, do you also to them.
(1571.3) 140:3.16 “Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(1571.4) 140:3.17 “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.
(1571.5) 140:3.18 “Discern the truth clearly; live the righteous life fearlessly; and so shall you be my apostles and my Father’s ambassadors. You have heard it said: ‘If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.’ If you would guide others into the kingdom, you must yourselves walk in the clear light of living truth. In all the business of the kingdom I exhort you to show just judgment and keen wisdom. Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.
(1571.6) 140:3.19 “I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep’s clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.
May we each and all look toward our intentions here…..and now.
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