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Does anyone have ideas on what TUB refers to specifically when it states that human metaphysics is confused and that the worst of materialism has past at the time of the revelations in 1934? What should we be doing to correct these philosophical problems in addition to religious and spiritual concerns?
What should we be doing to correct these philosophical problems in addition to religious and spiritual concerns?
Presumably, you’re referring to this quote:
p2076:9 195:6.4 At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man’s life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.
I think your question is answered in the last sentence – embrace the teachings of Jesus and adopt his philosophy, which is to continually strive to do God’s will. For example, we could look at the 6 levels of the golden rule and attempt to live up to the highest level possible – just one idea.
That’s odd. I’m sure that is exactly what he did reveal to those primitive people. He admitted to being the Son of God, which is revealing Deity as a person. If he didn’t do that, then just what did he do?He didn’t actually tell them that he is personalized Deity. Those words would have blown their minds. It would have been to much. Deity is not merely “God”. Its more than just God. Deity is the foundation of God. But that is besides the point, you can go through the whole 5th epochal revelation and see how much of it was left out from what Jesus was telling people. The whole book is to much for a primitive mind. Jesus was here to reveal to man that we are the sons and daughters of a loving Father. TUB is much more ambitious, its telling us that we are sons and daughters of a loving Father but its also telling us that we are cosmic citizens. Its building off the 4th and giving a much greater revelation than what Jesus gave. And thousands of years from now the next revelation will be much greater than this one. The point that I was just trying to make is the progression.Yes, spiritual insight is a gift, but not from the Holy Spirit. It’s a gift from the Adjuster. Spiritual insight is “that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind”(101:1.5). The cosmic mind, made personable by the personal presence of the Holy Spirit, provides the mechanism by which the mind recognizes the gift of spiritual insight – by use of the third recognition response of worship.
This is the whole quote.
(1105.2) 101:1.5 While religion is not the product of the rationalistic speculations of a material cosmology, it is, nonetheless, the creation of a wholly rational insight which originates in man’s mind-experience. Religion is born neither of mystic meditations nor of isolated contemplations, albeit it is ever more or less mysterious and always indefinable and inexplicable in terms of purely intellectual reason and philosophic logic. The germs of true religion originate in the domain of man’s moral consciousness, and they are revealed in the growth of man’s spiritual insight, that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind.
Spiritual insight originates in our moral consciousness/philosophical consciousness and that spiritual insight accrues as a result of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster. The word accrue just means that something has increased in value, like interest. That is why I said in another post that we can all have a True Philosophical consciousness just by grace, because these insights are there innately in cosmic mind. Its just they need to be grown.
(192.1) 16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:
(192.2) 16:6.6 1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.3) 16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.4) 16:6.8 3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures
These spiritual insights are innate in the cosmic mind. The cosmic mind innately has those cosmic intuitions, the cosmic mind comes from the Local Mother Spirit. These 3 intuitions are the 3 intuitions of the Holy Spirit. The 3rd cosmic intuition is quite literally spiritual insight.
Does anyone have ideas on what TUB refers to specifically when it states that human metaphysics is confused and that the worst of materialism has past at the time of the revelations in 1934? What should we be doing to correct these philosophical problems in addition to religious and spiritual concerns?
Metaphysics according to TUB is our attempt at mota. Mota is a super-philosophical insight. The lower domains of mota join up with the higher domains of human philosophy. The reason that metaphysics fails is that its impossible for humans to create a philosophy that starts at the top and goes down. We just don’t have any idea on our own what is happening up high, at least not with enough clarity to create a philosophy out of it. So revelation does what metaphysics sets out to do and revelation compensates for a lack of mota. It gives us that top down philosophy so that we can join it up with our human philosophy and form a complete philosophical picture. All we have to do is trust the revelation and follow its instructions. Just being a person who dwells in the light will help the world. We don’t have to do anything special.
P1098:4, 100:5.1 The world is filled with lost souls, not lost in the theologic sense but lost in the directional meaning, wandering about in confusion among the isms and cults of a frustrated philosophic era. Too few have learned how to install a philosophy of living in the place of religious authority. (The symbols of socialized religion are not to be despised as channels of growth, albeit the river bed is not the river.)
He didn’t actually tell them that he is personalized Deity. Those words would have blown their minds. It would have been to much.
Scott, maybe you’ve forgotten the following quote?
184:3.16 Jesus manifested no interest in any question asked him when before Annas or the Sanhedrists except the one question relative to his bestowal mission. When asked if he were the Son of God, he instantly and unequivocally answered in the affirmative.
And a previous one:
184:3.14 But Caiaphas could not longer endure the sight of the Master standing there in perfect composure and unbroken silence. He thought he knew at least one way in which the prisoner might be induced to speak. Accordingly, he rushed over to the side of Jesus and, shaking his accusing finger in the Master’s face, said: “I adjure you, in the name of the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Deliverer, the Son of God.” Jesus answered Caiaphas: “I am. Soon I go to the Father, and presently shall the Son of Man be clothed with power and once more reign over the hosts of heaven.”
Then there’s this one:
186:2.2 When asked if he were the Son of God, he unfailingly made reply.
And yes, it was too much for those people, that is why they murdered him thinking they could eliminate his revelation. But some people did recognize him, embrace him and had their lives transformed.
TUB is much more ambitious, its telling us that we are sons and daughters of a loving Father but its also telling us that we are cosmic citizens.Its building off the 4th and giving a much greater revelation than what Jesus gave.
Yes of course, that’s why it’s called the 5th epochal revelation. Epochal revelations are not just repeats of previous revelations, they are “ever-expanding and successively more enlightening.” (92:4.1) The mission of revelation is “to sort and censor the successive religions of evolution.” (92:4.1)
Jesus also taught about cosmic citizenship, but it was geared to the 1st century mind. There’s nothing new about cosmic citizenry, it just that modern man has a better understanding of the physical cosmos and most people understand that we are not alone. The UB reveals that we indeed are not alone and that the cosmos is not only physical, but morontial and spiritual as well. And yes, that is blowing people’s minds. How many UB readers have gone off the deep end . . . just sayin’.
Scott, maybe you’ve forgotten the following quote?
184:3.16 Jesus manifested no interest in any question asked him when before Annas or the Sanhedrists except the one question relative to his bestowal mission. When asked if he were the Son of God, he instantly and unequivocally answered in the affirmative.
And a previous one:
184:3.14 But Caiaphas could not longer endure the sight of the Master standing there in perfect composure and unbroken silence. He thought he knew at least one way in which the prisoner might be induced to speak. Accordingly, he rushed over to the side of Jesus and, shaking his accusing finger in the Master’s face, said: “I adjure you, in the name of the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Deliverer, the Son of God.” Jesus answered Caiaphas: “I am. Soon I go to the Father, and presently shall the Son of Man be clothed with power and once more reign over the hosts of heaven.”
Then there’s this one:
186:2.2 When asked if he were the Son of God, he unfailingly made reply.
Where does he use the word Deity here? Or “personalized Deity”? Deity and God are two different concepts.
And yes, that is blowing people’s minds. How many UB readers have gone off the deep end . . . just sayin’.
Yea I don’t think the book is meant for people who haven’t found God in the 4th epochal revelation. Or people who are not at least capable of being civilized. There are a lot of ways to go off the deep end with this stuff. That is why I wouldn’t go to a primitive country and hand this book out. All the people would be reading about is how primitive they are and how primitive everything they do is. Or maybe they would go to the other end of the danger spectrum and start counting their psychic circles and start thinking that they can have conversations with their TA in their head if they just try hard enough.
TUB wrote: Spiritual insight originates in our moral consciousness/philosophical consciousness and that spiritual insight accrues as a result of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster. The word accrue just means that something has increased in value, like interest.Well, here again our interpretations are entirely different. According to my dictionary, accrue means to arise from, ensue from, be caused by. Spiritual insight arises from, ensues from and is caused by the Adjuster. That is why it is a gift.
The soil for the growth of spiritual insight is the moral consciousness. The revelators use the metaphor of soil and seeds to make sure we understand that the source of spiritual insight is not in the soil, but in the light shining down on the soil. In this next quote it states that morality is NOT the source of spiritual insight. Spiritual insight does not originate in the moral consciousness. Moral consciousness is the source of God-consciousness. The first moral decision is evidence of God-consciousness and hence the entry into the 7th psychic circle.
196:3.25 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster’s inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight.
TUB wrote: That is why I said in another post that we can all have a True Philosophical consciousness just by grace, because these insights are there innately in cosmic mind. Its just they need to be grown.Actually, the three reality recognition responses are not insights, they are intuitions and intuitions are like reflexes. Cosmic intuitions don’t grow, they are constant innate qualities of cosmic mind. They remain the same all of the time, it is the mind which responds to them that grows or evolves. When thought lines up properly with the cosmic mind, it works like gravity and results in a reality reflex response, one of three, depending upon the level of reality the thought concerns. When all three reality recognition responses ping – bingo! you have your 3-fold concept of reality. Thoughts that are reality based gravitationally respond to the pull of the cosmic mind which takes the form of a reality recognition response, a sort of handshake with the cosmic mind. Now admittedly, this is a very basic explanation because I’m trying to keep it simple, but I’m sure you’ll understand what I’m saying.
16:6.4 This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.
TUB wrote: These 3 intuitions are the 3 intuitions of the Holy Spirit.Not exactly. The cosmic mind is impersonal and personal beings cannot utilize impersonal mind without it being made personal. The Holy Spirit’s presence, as a person, individualizes a portion of the cosmic mind and makes it accessible to each personality that has entered the 7th psychic circle.
TUB wrote:The 3rd cosmic intuition is quite literally spiritual insight.There is no literal evidence that what you say is true. It’s not written anywhere. You seem to have inferred it, which is fine, being part of your interpretation. But I read that the 3rd cosmic intuition is a recognition response and a recognition response is not the same as spiritual insight. They are two different things, just like cosmic insight is not the same as spiritual insight. I think we should start a new thread on just what spiritual insight is. I think it detracts from the purpose of this thread which was intended to discuss whether or not the UB is a philosophical or religious revelation.TUB wrote:Where does he use the word Deity here? Or “personalized Deity”? Deity and God are two different concepts.Scott, personalized Deity is God.0:1.2 Deity is personalizable as God, is prepersonal and superpersonal in ways not altogether comprehensible by man. Deity is characterized by the quality of unity — actual or potential — on all supermaterial levels of reality; and this unifying quality is best comprehended by creatures as divinity.0:2.6 God is a word symbol designating all personalizations of Deity.Well, here again our interpretations are entirely different. According to my dictionary, accrue means to arise from, ensue from, be caused by. Spiritual insight arises from, ensues from and is caused by the Adjuster. That is why it is a gift.
Well here is a very detailed definition, I don’t know where you got your definition from. They even use interest as an example to help explain what it means. Someone can accrue interest, its a common term that bankers use.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accrue
ac·crue ( 
-kr
)
v.ac·crued, ac·cru·ing, ac·cruesv.intr.1. To come to one as a gain, addition, or increment: interest accruing in my savings account.2. To increase, accumulate, or come about as a result of growth: common sense that accrues with experience.3. To come into existence as a claim that is legally enforceable.v.tr.To accumulate over time: I have accrued 15 days of sick leave.
[Middle Englishacreuen, from Old Frenchacreu, past participle ofacroistre, to increase, add, from Latinaccr
scere, to grow : ad-, ad- + crscere, to arise; seeker-2in Indo-European roots.]
ac·crua·ble adj.ac·cruement n.The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
accrue (əˈkruː)
vb (intr) , -crues, -cruingor-crued
1. (Banking & Finance) to increase by growth or addition, esp (of capital) to increase by periodic addition of interest2. (often foll by to) to fall naturally (to); come into the possession (of); result (for)3. (Law)law(of a right or demand) to become capable of being enforcedBonita: But I read that the 3rd cosmic intuition is a recognition response and a recognition response is not the same as spiritual insightSpiritual insight IS the recognition response. What do you think the 3rd cosmic recognition response is exactly? Its a spiritual recognition response.(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking.They are flat out calling these cosmic responses “scientific, moral and spiritual insights” which are innate in cosmic mind. That means they come directly from this mind that is the mind of the Local Mother Spirit loaned to us. Spiritual insight is literally one of the cosmic responses.TUB wrote: They even use interest as an example to help explain what it means.Yes, but where does that interest come from? It results from an investment, it arises from an investment, it ensues from an investment. Spiritual insight is what accrues from the investment made by planting the seeds in the soil. It’s the basis of several of Jesus’ parables.TUB wrote: What do you think the 3rd cosmic recognition response is exactly? Its a spiritual recognition response.I’m quite certain it is a cosmic recognition response which occurs on the spiritual level of reality. But that doesn’t make it the same thing as spiritual insight; it’s a recognition of spiritual value. Remember, in terms of insight, first we discover then we recognize. It’s not really spiritual insight until the Adjuster (Spirit) spiritizes it and makes it ready for action. The cosmic ping of recognition signals readiness of our minds to allow spiritization by the Adjuster. That’s when it becomes spiritual insight. Spiritual insight means to commune with the “mind of the spirit”. You cannot have spiritual insight without communing with Spirit. The cosmic mind is NOT spirit; it is mind that recognizes spirit.
p1104:06 All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight.
TUB wrote: They are flat out calling these cosmic responses “scientific, moral and spiritual insights”This is splitting hairs but I’ll try. The sentence is referring to three different insights into reality known as cosmic responses: scientific, moral and spiritual. It is not saying that an insight functioning as a cosmic response on the spiritual level of reality is the same as spiritual insight. They wouldn’t exclude the Adjuster who is necessary for spiritual insight. So literally, they’re saying that the cosmic response on a spiritual level provides insight into the spiritual level of cosmic reality, which is not the same as saying it is literally spiritual insight. They are two different things, albeit related. The recognition response is merely the second step necessary for the accrual of spiritual insight. The next step requires the Adjuster.(1105.2)101:1.5 While religion is not the product of the rationalistic speculations of a material cosmology, it is, nonetheless, the creation of a wholly rational insight which originates in man’s mind-experience. Religion is born neither of mystic meditations nor of isolated contemplations, albeit it is ever more or less mysterious and always indefinable and inexplicable in terms of purely intellectual reason and philosophic logic. The germs of true religion originate in the domain of man’s moral consciousness, and they are revealed in the growth of man’s spiritual insight, that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind.
Yes, but where does that interest come from? It results from an investment, it arises from an investment, it ensues from an investment. Spiritual insight is what accrues from the investment made by planting the seeds in the soil. It’s the basis of several of Jesus’ parables.
The paragraph is just talking about the accrue of spiritual insight/ the growth of spiritual insight nothing more. It is not even bringing up the topic of where spiritual insight comes from. A Material Son or Daughter who is living on our planet does not have a Thought Adjuster yet they still have spiritual insight. They don’t even have a soul and yet they have spiritual insight. How is that possible? Its because of mind. They can experience a cosmic consciousness with spiritual insight regardless of whether or not they have an adjuster. They don’t even need a soul.
So literally, they’re saying that the cosmic response on a spiritual level provides insight into the spiritual level of cosmic reality, which is not the same as saying it is literally spiritual insight
The only way to have insight into spiritual matters is to have spiritual insight. If we don’t have spiritual insight we can’t have insight into the spiritual level of cosmic reality. The authors restate these 3 cosmic intuitions here.
16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.
A Material Son or Daughter who is living on our planet does not have a Thought Adjuster yet they still have spiritual insight. They don’t even have a soul and yet they have spiritual insight. How is that possible? Its because of mind. They can experience a cosmic consciousness with spiritual insight regardless of whether or not they have an adjuster. They don’t even need a soul.
Material Sons and Daughters do not have human minds. Their minds are presumably derived from a much higher individualization of the cosmic mind capable of unbroken intellectual synchrony with the mind-gravity circuit of the Infinite Spirit (75:7.5; 51:1.5). Mind-gravity is also their source of immortality, which is interesting. Their minds were functioning on the Jerusem level of existence. We cannot compare our minds with theirs, we’re too far removed and further down the mind-ladder than they.
The only way to have insight into spiritual matters is to have spiritual insight.
So the only way to have spiritual insight is to have spiritual insight? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
The UB says you have to have inner communion with the Adjuster in order to have spiritual insight. I think you might be talking about cosmic insight into spiritual reality, which is a different thing. Related, but different. Cosmic insight is simply the grasp of cosmic meaning (16:8.12). They use the word grasp there like they use the word gravity, or response. Cosmic insight is capable of discerning the spiritual level of reality, but spiritual insight is a relationship with spiritual reality. The Thought Adjuster supplies that relationship.
Material Sons and Daughters do not have human minds. Their minds are presumably derived from a much higher individualization of the cosmic mind capable of unbroken intellectual synchrony with the mind-gravity circuit of the Infinite Spirit (75:7.5; 51:1.5). Mind-gravity is also their source of immortality, which is interesting. Their minds were functioning on the Jerusem level of existence. We cannot compare our minds with theirs, we’re too far removed and further down the mind-ladder than they.
What about a midwayer we are not that far removed from them on the mind-latter. They don’t have souls or an adjuster and they still have spiritual insight. The higher forms of mind are just variations of the cosmic mind. Spiritual insight is simply spiritual insight. I don’t understand why you are trying to change the definition of the word spiritual insight into something else.
The only way to have insight into spiritual matters is to have spiritual insight.
So the only way to have spiritual insight is to have spiritual insight? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
I think you mix my words around often, but that is alright. If the minds eye is not spiritual how can we see any spiritual reality? If the minds eye is spiritual that means we have spiritual sight (spiritual insight). Either way the authors are telling us that spiritual insight is an innate endowment of cosmic mind. It seems very straight forward to me and not worth debating.
“…and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.”
192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking.
Bonita wrote:I think we should start a new thread on just what spiritual insight is. I think it detracts from the purpose of this thread which was intended to discuss whether or not the UB is a philosophical or religious revelation.I think a new thread is a good idea (Bonita, it’s your suggestion and your lead, as long as the great points already made by you and TUB are reviewed in the initial post).But TUB, it is not a valid procedure to offer a dictionary citation containing multiple senses of a word unless the writer chooses one for themselves among those listed. They are not listed as hints to an underlying meaning, and we get only ambiguity if we try to ‘morph’ a definition out of a combination of separate senses. There is no real purpose to a dictionary unless we are enabled by it to make a distinction between the various senses in which a word is used. Which of the three listed, then, do you think most closely defines your idea?
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