Is the UB a Philosophical or Religious Text?

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  • #8623
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    TUB
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    Bonita: And the revelators did not make errors

    So you actually agree with me. :)

    #8625
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

     

     

    TUB wrote:Incomplete does not mean they are errored though.
    Sure it does. Error also means evil, imperfection, which is the incompleteness of perfection, misconception or maladjustment to reality.  But I have people over and can’t take the time to explain right now. Here are some quotes to ponder:
    • 130:4.11 Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. . . . Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate.
    • 130:4.14 The incomplete and finite concept of the Infinite which is held by the temporal and limited creature mind is, in and of itself, potential evil. But the augmenting error of unjustified deficiency in reasonable spiritual rectification of these originally inherent intellectual disharmonies and spiritual insufficiencies, is equivalent to the realization of actual evil.
    • 12:7.11 The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part.
    • 67:1.4  Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities.
    • 67:1.5 Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness . . .
    • 101:10.6  Such faith affords the only escape from the mechanical clutch of the material world and from the error distortion of the incompleteness of the intellectual world . . .

     

    #8626
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    TUB
    Participant

    Well this deserves its own thread….

    #8627
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    TUB
    Participant

     

     Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality.” (754.5) 67:1.4

    Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities. 754.5) 67:1.4

    It can be evil to only have a partial realization of something because that is still a distorted viewpoint of reality. Its when we distort reality that we make an error, and that distortion can lead to evil if we take it on.  

    (1435.3) 130:4.11 Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. The qualities of imperfection or facts of misadaptation are disclosed on the material level by critical observation and by scientific analysis; on the moral level, by human experience. The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection. Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate

     

    Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness.  In other words its not the incompleteness that is errored. That is a very philosophical statement. There literally isn’t a shadow following around incompleteness. The shadow of incompleteness is the distortion of reality. When someone distorts reality they are making an error. The notion that everything is incomplete and therefor evil or errored is insanity. That notion will drive you insane. The universe is perfecting and that makes it good. Its not evil. The universe is not evil. That is a dark road to go down. “the observation of a relativity” is the error, in other words its someone’s observation that leads to error.

    Its our misadaptation to reality that is the evil.

     

    1435.5) 130:4.13 Evil is a relativity concept. It arises out of the observation of the imperfections which appear in the shadow cast by a finite universe of things and beings as such a cosmos obscures the living light of the universal expression of the eternal realities of the Infinite One.

    Its the observation which leads to evil, its not the reality itself that is actually evil.

     

    “‘Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

    If we are obedient to the Father’s will there is no evil.

    “Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.”

    #8628
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    TUB
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    This quote says it all.

     

    The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator—it is the handiwork of his divine Sons—and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.” (1222.2) 111:6.3

    The universes are not evil or errored, they are good. Its when someone gets all confused by viewing that incomplete nature and they have a misadaptation to what they observe that leads to evil.

    (1434.6) 130:4.7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability — even to the heights of God-consciousness.

    (1434.7) 130:4.8 Misadaptation of self-conscious life to the universe results in cosmic disharmony. Final divergence of personality will from the trend of the universes terminates in intellectual isolation, personality segregation. Loss of the indwelling spirit pilot supervenes in spiritual cessation of existence. Intelligent and progressing life becomes then, in and of itself, an incontrovertible proof of the existence of a purposeful universe expressing the will of a divine Creator. And this life, in the aggregate, struggles toward higher values, having for its final goal the Universal Father.

    #8629
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    TUB
    Participant

    A thing in the universe cannot be errored or evil. Error has to do with personalities. Not energies, or molecules. A molecule cannot be errored.

    Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.”

    #8630
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Bonita said:  “Oy vey. I think I just wasted an hour explaining this for nothing. We’re right back where we started.”

     

    Me here:  No waste Dear….many students attending here and learning much indeed!  We all know how much Scott likes to argue a point.  He seems to be both learning and enjoying as well.  Peace….and thanks.

    :good:

    #8638
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Bradly wrote:  Me here:  No waste Dear
    God, please give me strength and wisdom.  Brad, thanks for your encouragement.
    TUB wrote:  A thing in the universe cannot be errored or evil. Error has to do with personalities. Not energies, or molecules. A molecule cannot be errored.

    The creations of time and space are imperfect, which means they are potentially evil.  If all energies should become perfect, like Paradise, it would be evidence of having reached a final state of universal light and life with full emergence of the Supreme.  That has not yet happened, therefore the universes of time and space, along with every created thing and creature being in them is imperfect – not yet perfect – and potentially evil. Not until reaching the final spirit stage of existence do humans loose the potential for evil, and that is because it is not until then that they reach their final stage of perfection. [4:2.6; 54:01; 54:02; 105:6.4; 111:4.11; 116:5.12; 130:4.14; 132:2.6; 148:4.6; 148:4.8; 148:5.3; ]

    116:5.12 The time universes are not perfect; that is their destiny. The struggle for perfection pertains not only to the intellectual and the spiritual levels but also to the physical level of energy and mass. The settlement of the seven superuniverses in light and life presupposes their attainment of physical stability. And it is conjectured that the final attainment of material equilibrium will signify the completed evolution of the physical control of the Almighty.
    #8639
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    emanny
    Blocked

     

    I particularly like this quote.

    111:6.6   Science is the source of facts, and mind cannot operate without facts. They are the building blocks in the construction of wisdom which are cemented together by life experience. Man can find the love of God without facts, and man can discover the laws of God without love, but man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy.

    #8640
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    TUB
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    The universes are perfecting and that makes them good, not evil.

    The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator—it is the handiwork of his divine Sons—and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.” (1222.2) 111:6.3

    The authors are flat out saying that the finite world is good and not evil. “‘It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.” Evil is potential in a evolving incomplete universe because of freewill. Evil is distortion of reality, its a self-made illusion or perversion of reality.

    Ascending mortals are not evil. They are perfecting, something doesn’t need to be perfect in order to not be evil we don’t live in Havona. There is no perfection in the finite universe (save God) everything in our universe is evolving. The Supreme is incomplete right now but that doesn’t make any aspect of it evil.

    (11.4) 0:7.10 All time-space finite reality, under the directive urge of the evolving Supreme Being, is engaged in an ever-ascending mobilization and perfecting unification (power-personality synthesis) of all phases and values of finite reality, in association with varied phases of Paradise reality, to the end and for the purpose of subsequently embarking upon the attempt to reach absonite levels of supercreature attainment.

     234.2)21:0.2 In the vast work of organizing, evolving, and perfecting a local universe, these high Sons always enjoy the sustaining approval of the Universal Father. The relationship of the Creator Sons with their Paradise Father is touching and superlative. No doubt the profound affection of the Deity parents for their divine progeny is the wellspring of that beautiful and well-nigh divine love which even mortal parents bear their children.

    (418.6)38:1.3 Seraphim are still being periodically created; the universe of Nebadon is still in the making. The Universe Mother Spirit never ceases creative activity in a growing and perfecting universe.

    There are 32 mentions of the universe and mortals as perfecting in TUB. Whatever level we find ourselves on that scale of perfecting doesn’t matter, the highest level of perfection is just as good as the lowest level that a perfecting creature is at.

    #8641
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    TUB
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    This should settle the debate as to what error is. The authors flat out give a layman definition here. This should also help give context to comments about the possibility of error in an evolutionary universe.

     

    (52.1)3:5.15 Throughout the universe, every unit is regarded as a part of the whole. Survival of the part is dependent on co-operation with the plan and purpose of the whole, the wholehearted desire and perfect willingness to do the Father’s divine will. The only evolutionary world without error (the possibility of unwise judgment) would be a world without free intelligence. In the Havona universe there are a billion perfect worlds with their perfect inhabitants, but evolving man must be fallible if he is to be free. Free and inexperienced intelligence cannot possibly at first be uniformly wise. The possibility of mistaken judgment (evil) becomes sin only when the human will consciously endorses and knowingly embraces a deliberate immoral judgment.

    There is the possibility of error exists in a evolutionary world because of free intelligence as the authors say. Error and evil revolve around unwise judgment and mistaken judgment. The cosmos do not judge they just are.

    (215.1)19:1.4 In this connection, however, it may be noted that Teacher Sons are the supreme co-ordinating personalities of Trinity origin. In such a far-flung universe of universes there is always great danger of succumbing to the error of the circumscribed viewpoint, to the evil inherent in a segmentalized conception of reality and divinity.

    This probably means that we should be careful how much zeal we give an idea that we may not be sure about. If are embracing a false world view of reality, we are embracing something evil. So its probably best to approach TUB very very carefully.

    (754.5) 67:1.4 There are many ways of looking at sin, but from the universe philosophic viewpoint sin is the attitude of a personality who is knowingly resisting cosmic reality. Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities. But sin is a purposeful resistance to divine reality — a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress — while iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity.

    #8642
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    The universes are perfecting and that makes them good, not evil.

    Anything that is perfecting is NOT perfect (imperfect).  Anything that is NOT perfect (imperfect) has the POTENTIAL for evil.  The physical universes are unfinished, incomplete, the “imperfect out workings of the development, growth and progress” of an experimental evolution.(4:2.6)  The presence of imperfection provides the POTENTIAL for evil. The FACT of the existence of the universe is, in of itself, not evil because the FACT of its existence confirms its divine origins.  But, it is the presence of imperfection, the incompleteness, the partialness, in the universe which provides the POTENTIAL for evil.  The POTENTIAL for evil exists because of the contrast between perfection and imperfection which is necessary to provide choices.  News Flash!: The created universes were NOT created perfect, otherwise there would be no need for evolution.

    105:6.5 The divinity response to the imperfection inherent in the time lag of evolution is disclosed in the compensating presence of God the Sevenfold, by whose activities that which is perfecting is integrated with both the perfect and the perfected. This time lag is inseparable from evolution, which is creativity in time.

    I particularly like this quote.

    Yeah, I like that one too.  It is a good companion quote to the “elliptic symmetry of reality.” quote.(103:6.14)

     

    #8643
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    TUB
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    Anything that is perfecting is NOT perfect (imperfect).  Anything that is NOT perfect (imperfect) has the POTENTIAL for evil.

    A THING cannot be evil. Error and evil is possible because of free will intelligence. A thing does not have free will intelligence. The potential for evil exists because a free willed intelligence can choose a distortion of reality.

    Also the word perfecting is not the same thing as perfect or imperfect. These are 3 different concepts. If imperfect meant the exact same thing as perfecting the authors wouldn’t have even bothered to say perfecting. There is a reason they are revealing this new concept.

     

     

    #8644
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    TUB wrote:This should settle the debate as to what error is . . .
    Here are other definitions of error:
    Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection.p1436:01
    Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate. 130:4.11 
    Error is a shadow (companion) of incompleteness which is due to relativity. Error is an observation of relativity in relatedness, which is why truth is the opposite of error.  The Spirit of Truth is unERRINGly  responsive to the relatedness of things and beings.
    56:10.13 The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth — the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.
     
    #8645
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    TUB
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    Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection.

     

    Okay that is a philosophic statement he is giving a philosophic way to look at error (unwise judgment). He introduces a lot of philosophic ways to look at reality in that paper. He is not talking about a literal shadow.

    That definition is very close to this one.

    555.1) 48:6.33 Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life, which is the law. Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.

    They are not speaking factually about error here they are speaking philosophically. Because this is a philosophic revelation. The authors are giving a lot of philosophic concepts as well as very layman concepts of error in the book. The two are not supposed to contradict each other they are talking about the same thing. When they say that error is unwise judgment, it doesn’t suddenly become something else in other parts of the book. Its just that the authors are providing a philosophic way to look at unwise judgment in other parts of the book.

     

     

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