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TUB wrote: A THING cannot be evil.Are you absolutely sure about that? Why are we told that every person has one “thing” held onto as a pet evil? (163:2.7) Facts and things are the same thing. There are plenty of evil facts. Evil is also defined as remoteness from divinity. There are plenty of facts very remote from divinity: the fact of genocide, the fact of hatred; the fact of bigotry. Do you mean objects? Then why did Jesus say that the kingdom of heaven is the pearl of great price for which man should give up all that he has in order to get? That would include THINGS, and if things are in the way of the kingdom of heaven, then they are POTENTIALLY evil.Perhaps you are thinking of evil as the opposite of goodness. Goodness is a quality of personality; it requires personality. But evil is not the opposite of goodness; it is the opposite of truth. There are plenty of things that are not true.TUB wrote:There is a reason they are revealing this new concept.And what is that reason Scott? Please explain it to us. What exactly is the difference between imperfect and perfecting?My own opinion is that perfecting means removing faults and defects in order to bring to completion. The definition of imperfect is having faults and defects preventing completion. Perfecting imperfection is called evolution.105:6.5 The divinity response to the imperfection inherent in the time lag of evolution is disclosed in the compensating presence of God the Sevenfold, by whose activities that which is perfecting is integrated with both the perfect and the perfected. This time lag is inseparable from evolution, which is creativity in time.TUB wrote:When they say that error is unwise judgment, it doesn’t suddenly become something else in other parts of the book.Surely you’ve used a dictionary more than once in your life. Do you read dictionaries philosophically too? There are multiple meanings to almost every word in a dictionary. Are you incapable of seeing that the revelators are offering many different definitions for the same word, just like in real life? You had the same problem with the Mother God concept, if I recall. You were stuck on the idea that there is only one true Mother God in all eternity, the Supreme. Yet, there are many, many mothers just as there are many fathers. My point being is that the revelators are revealing multiple meanings in order to round out your comprehension. If you limit yourself to using a word in only one “true” way, you will never be able to get the full picture. Revelation is meant to give you the tools to discover truth on your own. Why would they limit the idea of error to only one thing, poor judgment? It doesn’t make sense. Even in real life the word error has many different definitions.Error doesn’t only mean unwise judgment. Unwise judgment is an effect; error is a cause. The cause is imperfection which opens the door to evil. When something is put into parentheses it is meant as an afterthought in order to make the sentence clearer. It does not mean that the two words or phrases are equal in meaning. The use of parentheses is not used to indicate a definition but rather to expound upon the meaning of what precedes it. The quote in question is talking about free will. Free will is about decisions, so in this case error has to do with unwise decisions or judgments. It does not mean that this is the only application for the word error in the text.
TUB isn’t set up like a dictionary. It is not giving us just the facts of what something is, they are giving us the truth of what something is as well. Jesus is telling us the truth of what mistaken judgment is. The truth is greater than the fact. Also the universe cannot be errored or evil because the authors tell us that is not evil or sinful and that it is good. So the interpretation that it is evil or errored must be false. The word error in the dictionary also means mistaken.
They give us the fact of error (unwise judgment), and then they give us the truth. The only way to convey truth is through philosophy. There is not factually a shadow of a hairs turning. That is a statement of truth not fact. Truth is a top down perspective, to start with facts and try and derive the truth is a bottom up perspective.
You had the same problem with the Mother God concept, if I recall. You were stuck on the idea that there is only one true Mother God in all eternity, the Supreme
You are imagining this, I have called the Local Mother Spirit God many times. I also have mentioned the Infinite Mother Spirit and the Mother Son. So no. Obviously if I am calling the Local Mother Spirit I am recognizing her God the Mother nature. The Infinite Mother Spirit is God the Mother in the same sense that Jesus is God the Father.
To see the truth we have to cultivate a genuine philosophical (top down) perspective. Many times the authors will just start with the truth and move to fact.
And what is that reason Scott? Please explain it to us. What exactly is the difference between imperfect and perfecting?My own opinion is that perfecting means removing faults and defects in order to bring to completion. The definition of imperfect is having faults and defects preventing completion. Perfecting imperfection is called evolution.105:6.5 The divinity response to the imperfection inherent in the time lag of evolution is disclosed in the compensating presence of God the Sevenfold, by whose activities that which is perfecting is integrated with both the perfect and the perfected. This time lag is inseparable from evolution, which is creativity in time.Well with imperfect you are starting out from the negative viewpoint. With perfecting you are starting in the positive. Glass half full vs glass half empty. Perfecting you are looking at something that is dynamic motion, (evolving). Evolution is literally called creativity in time by the authors. That is a very positive reality and good reality. Everything about it is good.How can the Universe be evil when the authors are telling us that it is not evil but actually good.The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator—it is the handiwork of his divine Sons—and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.” (1222.2) 111:6.3All of these notions that the universe is evil and that we are naturally evil come from superstition and fear. The universe is GOOD, there only little black patches against a white backdrop. The belief that the universe is black with only little white patches IMO is a extremely errored prejudice.TUB wrote:The only way to convey truth is through philosophy.That’s funny. I thought truth was provided by revelation and “conveyed,” or made understandable, by the Spirit of Truth.That’s funny. I thought truth was provided by revelation and “conveyed,” or made understandable, by the Spirit of Truth.Revelation is a compensation for mota, and mota is philosophical. So I think that this revelation is philosophical. Not every being in the universe has the Spirit of Truth and they still can understand truth. The SOT definitely helps though.(81:<wbr />6.3). ). Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of TruthFaith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny. ~ The Urantia Book, (101:3.2)A philosophical consciousness is also a co-ordinate consciousness. It co-ordinates everything together.TUB wrote: Revelation is a compensation for mota, and mota is philosophical.You said that philosophy is the only way to convey truth, but mota is not truth; it is truth sensitivity. Truth is always a revelation. (101:4.3)You said that philosophy is the only way to convey truth, but mota is not truth; it is truth sensitivity. Truth is always a revelation. (101:4.3)
Okay but mota meanings can be written down as cited in this quote below. When mota meaning is written down you are writing down something philosophical and the truth can flow through that philosophical writing in the mind of the person reading it when its personally recognized.
P556:1, 48:7.1 The lower planes of morontia mota join directly with the higher levels of human philosophy. On the first mansion world it is the practice to teach the less advanced students by the parallel technique; that is, in one column are presented the more simple concepts of mota meanings, and in the opposite column citation is made of analogous statements of mortal philosophy.
Morontia mota is true metaphysics.
Mansonia the third is a world of great personal and social achievement for all who have not made the equivalent of these circles of culture prior to release from the flesh on the mortal nativity worlds. On this sphere more positive educational work is begun. The training of the first two mansion worlds is mostly of a deficiency nature—negative—in that it has to do with supplementing the experience of the life in the flesh. On this third mansion world the survivors really begin their progressive morontia culture. The chief purpose of this training is to enhance the understanding of the correlation of morontia mota and mortal logic, the co-ordination of morontia mota and human philosophy. Surviving mortals now gain practical insight into true metaphysics. This is the real introduction to the intelligent comprehension of cosmic meanings and universe interrelationships. The culture of the third mansion world partakes of the nature of the postbestowal Son age of a normal inhabited planet. ~ The Urantia Book, (47:5.3)
If we had morontia mota we could join up what we see with this higher philosophical perspective with our human philosophy. But because we don’t have this higher philosophical perspective we use revelation which compensates for mota. Revelation can join up with our human philosophy instead of mota. Revelation can be personal as well as epochal.
Out of his incomplete grasp of science, his faint hold upon religion, and his abortive attempts at metaphysics, man has attempted to construct his formulations of philosophy. And modern man would indeed build a worthy and engaging philosophy of himself and his universe were it not for the breakdown of his all-important and indispensable metaphysical connection between the worlds of matter and spirit, the failure of metaphysics to bridge the morontia gulf between the physical and the spiritual. Mortal man lacks the concept of morontia mind and material; and revelation is the only technique for atoning for this deficiency in the conceptual data which man so urgently needs in order to construct a logical philosophy of the universe and to arrive at a satisfying understanding of his sure and settled place in that universe.
When the philosophy of man leans heavily toward the world of matter, it becomes rationalistic or naturalistic. When philosophy inclines particularly toward the spiritual level, it becomes idealistic or even mystical. When philosophy is so unfortunate as to lean upon metaphysics, it unfailingly becomes skeptical, confused. In past ages, most of man’s knowledge and intellectual evaluations have fallen into one of these three distortions of perception. Philosophy dare not project its interpretations of reality in the linear fashion of logic; it must never fail to reckon with the elliptic symmetry of reality and with the essential curvature of all relation concepts.
The highest attainable philosophy of mortal man must be logically based on the reason of science, the faith of religion, and the truth insight afforded by revelation. By this union man can compensate somewhat for his failure to develop an adequate metaphysics and for his inability to comprehend the mota of the morontia. ~ The Urantia Book, (103:6.12)
If we go over to the spiritual side to much we are embracing a distortion of reality.
When philosophy inclines particularly toward the spiritual level, it becomes idealistic or even mystical. When philosophy is so unfortunate as to lean upon metaphysics, it unfailingly becomes skeptical, confused. In past ages, most of man’s knowledge and intellectual evaluations have fallen into one of these three distortions of perception
We’re also told that without the insight of mota we cannot discern truth in the phenomena of the material world.
We’re also told that without the insight of mota we cannot discern truth in the phenomena of the material world.
where is that?
TUB wrote:where is that?Paper 103I think there is definitely a limit to what humans can perceive in the interrelatedness between matter and mind. Our material universe is being directly impinged upon by the Supreme Mind. There is a true metaphysical connection between matter and mind that IMO is something we are going to need mota to fully understand. Metaphysics just falls flat on its face when it tries to connect mind with matter, the theories of metaphysics make absolutely no sense. There is an intimate connection there but we cannot really see it without mota. And then to see how physical reality, intellectual reality and spiritual reality are all connected together as one is something we really are going to need mota for. But luckily revelation somewhat compensates this lack of insight and we can get at least an initial sense of the interrelatedness of matter, mind and spirit.
(1268.6) 116:1.1 The experience of every evolving creature personality is a phase of the experience of the Almighty Supreme. The intelligent subjugation of every physical segment of the superuniverses is a part of the growing control of the Almighty Supreme.
– (102:6.10) Organic evolution is a fact; purposive or progressive evolution is a truth which makes consistent the otherwise contradictory phenomena of the ever-ascending achievements of evolution. The higher any scientist progresses in his chosen science, the more will he abandon the theories of materialistic fact in favor of the cosmic truth of the dominance of the Supreme Mind.
15 – (116:7.3) Mind has been given to mortals wherewith they may become self-conscious of identity and personality; and mind—even a Supreme Mind—has been bestowed upon the totality of the finite whereby the spirit of this emerging personality of the cosmos ever strives for the mastery of energy-matter.
TUB wrote:But luckily revelation somewhat compensates this lack of insight and we can get at least an initial sense of the interrelatedness of matter, mind and spirit.That’s what the Spirit of Truth does. All you have to do is go to your soul where he’s hanging out, banging on the door. He is the revealer of the interrelatedness of matter, mind and spirit. Personal revelation becomes a continuous process when you let him do his work.Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul–the morontia self–will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making
Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival
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