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We can enjoy a relationship to the Supreme and to God the Father at the same time, one is intellectual and the other is personal.
Yes, I agree that we can have a relationship with the Supreme and God the Father at the same time. In fact, it’s not possible to have a relationship to the Supreme without having a relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Supreme is potential in the Trinity.
But I do disagree that a relationship to the Supreme is only intellectual. It is also personal.
The Supreme is experiential and requires an experiential relationship. Experience is an interplay between the whole self and reality. The whole self is more than just intellect; it is body, mind, soul, spirit and personality. This is why progression in the psychic circles requires more than intellect. If psychic circle progression yields a progressive relationship with the Supreme, then that progression involves more than just an intellectual relationship. Psychic circles involve the whole self, including personality because they are about personality realization. Therefore, a relationship with the Supreme is also personal.
p1209:3 110:6.3 The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement.
Yea I should have made myself more clear. I think the relationship is personal for us, but I don’t think its personal in the sense that we are in communion with the personality of the Supreme, because her personality has not actualized in our universe. But it would be personal in the sense that we are personally experiencing her harmony in our mind. Her harmony is IMO the harmony of the cosmos and that same 3-fold harmony of the cosmos can be experienced intellectually as a cosmic consciousness. A consciousness that is like the cosmos. I think its in this sense that “individuals are not connected to each other except through the individuality of the whole”.
IMO when we all are cultivating this cosmic consciousness we are connected to the whole and to each other. I think this is how we can have kindred minds with each other. By sharing a similar type of consciousness.
TUB wrote: IMO when we all are cultivating this cosmic consciousness we are connected to the whole and to each other. I think this is how we can have kindred minds with each other. By sharing a similar type of consciousness.
Yeah, this issue of kindred minds and kindred spirits is fascinating. Kindred minds tend to cooperate with one another. So wouldn’t it be helpful if more people developed their cosmic consciousness?
16:6.3 The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.
7:1.6 There is a direct attractiveness of a spirit nature between spiritually minded persons of like tastes and longings. The term kindred spirits is not wholly a figure of speech.
Edit: Mara brought this quote up in another forum and I thought it fit good here.
When the development of the intellectual nature proceeds faster than that of the spiritual, such a situation renders communication with the Thought Adjuster both difficult and dangerous. Likewise, overspiritual development tends to produce a fanatical and perverted interpretation of the spirit leadings of the divine indweller. Lack of spiritual capacity makes it very difficult to transmit to such a material intellect the spiritual truths resident in the higher superconsciousness. It is to the mind of perfect poise, housed in a body of clean habits, stabilized neural energies, and balanced chemical function — when the physical, mental, and spiritual powers are in triune harmony of development — that a maximum of light and truth can be imparted with a minimum of temporal danger or risk to the real welfare of such a being. By such a balanced growth does man ascend the circles of planetary progression one by one, from the seventh to the first.The authors use the phrase “triune harmony”. This mindal harmony IMO the same triune harmony of cosmic reality. IMO its the same harmony of the Supreme that we can have within our consciousness. I am assuming that when we achieve this intellectual harmony we can have kindred minds with other people who are also functioning with this triune harmony. I imagine we would recognize that harmony within them if we are experiencing it. It would seem that if we mix our material pragmatism with our spiritual idealism we get this third super additive consequence, and that 3rd super additive consequence sets up the favorable conditions for a 3-fold harmonized system in our mind.and that 3rd super additive consequence sets up the favorable conditions for a 3-fold harmonized system in our mind.
And what then of the soul? Isn’t that also a 3-fold harmonized system of mind created by the personality’s to live a balanced and harmonized life attuned to God’s will? The soul is a level of morontia intelligence, a level of actualized thought (mind) obtained by an exquisite balance between material and spiritual by the personality.
And what then of the soul? Isn’t that also a 3-fold harmonized system of mind created by the personality’s to live a balanced and harmonized life attuned to God’s will? The soul is a level of morontia intelligence, a level of actualized thought (mind) obtained by an exquisite balance between material and spiritual by the personality.
I think as this harmony in our regular mind manifests, a duplicate copy of that higher mindal self gets saved as soul. So that when we die everything is saved and we can pick up where we left off in this life. I think the soul is very much like a mind that is in harmony with the harmony of the Supreme. I certainly think we can have some consciousness of our soul.
I think as this harmony in our regular mind manifests, a duplicate copy of that higher mindal self gets saved as soul.
So, what do you think the duplicate copy is, potential or actual?
Regarding the question, “Is the UB a religious or a philosophic book?”, Bonita wrote:
I believe this statement needs clarification. Perhaps Chris does clarify it elsewhere, I don’t know, but I have heard others repeat it as though it were fact. I’m disinclined to accept this statement on face value alone. Is it possible that the text is both philosophical and religious? How about scientific?
…
Does Chris mean that the Urantia Papers are not scripture? If so, I can accept that. But to say that it is not religious makes no sense to me. Any thoughts?Thanks for exploring this! My first thought is that such a question needs some background against which it can be discussed. For example, imagine such a question asked in a context like this:
From a “Jerusem perspective”, what might be missing from the conceptual landscape evolving on Urantia?
To get the ball rolling, think of the role Dalamatia [1,2] might have played, had that cultural seed survived. Now think of the role an Adamic civilization might have played, had that cultural seed survived. Now, since neither seed survived, think about what intended (non-physical) realities failed to actualize…
One thing that hit me last year: had either seed survived, our ground-based ministers, administers and administrations would all share more or less of a Jerusem perspective onto the purposes, problems and potentials of human life on Urantia. So, as a way into the question (of whether the UB is a religious or philosophic book), from the perspective of our administration on Jerusem, we might say that we lack “a Jerusem perspective onto” ourselves.
Personally, I believe that this — in intimate collaboration with Michael’s personal presence and a few million well-Adjusted souls — is what the Urantia book has the potential to restore: i.e. a deeper and broader perspective.
So what about the comment by Chris Halvorson that “the UB is not a religious text”? First thing is a quick check of the context in which it was said (a discussion of Paper 16 Section 6). Here’s the audio file in question:
http://www.perfectinghorizons.org/AudioFiles/20130322.mp3.zip
At time = 0:01:50, Chris says:
“… they’re hoping that at this section that it finally strikes you: wait a minute, this is not a religious text; certainly not a religious text in the old style sense of it, where it’s some elaborate construct of figmentary things, spiced up with a recognition of goodness, which has its value, its place. But in the evolutionary grand scheme of things, there comes a time when you need to take the next step. With the fifth epochal revelation, this is where you finally begin to recognize it as the fifth epochal revelation, not just some sort of an augmentation of the fourth. This is the point at which you recognize it as a philosophic text.”
Those of us who have studied these papers for years are, in some sense, able to see this question from the perspective of the Caligastia 100: “how to help these vibrant natives understand their place in the scheme of things?” So for us (as seasoned students), while our interaction with epochal revelation may have had personal religious repercussions, eventually this book begins to serve more as a conceptual frame within which to live out an expanded experience of being truly guided missiles, perfection-seeking humans launched at our true Father, in Paradise.
PS: rather than quibble about where Chris’ comments appear to conflict with our assumptions, for the cost of downloading any of his decades worth of contributions, we might do a little work to try and understand his meaning. From which we can freely choose whatever value we discover or recognize.
[1] http://urantia-association.org/the-urantia-book/part-2/paper-51/#U51_6_3
[2] http://urantia-association.org/the-urantia-book/part-3/paper-66/#U66_3_0Nigel
It helps to consider that True Philosophy is a super additive consequence of the synthesis between True Religion and True Science. So by saying its philosophical he is not saying there isn’t religion.
True Philosophy is a super additive consequence of the synthesis between True Religion and True Science.
Superadditive? I’m thinking that true philosophy has more to do with the “elliptic symmetry of reality” and the “essential curvature of all relation concepts”. Plus, the highest and most true philosophy available to us must also include revelation and be unified by personality (103:6.15). In my line of thinking, it’s more of a union than a superaddition.
The question presumes the answer is one or the other. It isn’t either, in my opinion. The UB is a revelatory text that encompasses and transcends, philosophy, religion and science.
It might be thought of as super-additive to evolution, no?
Richard E Warren
It might be thought of as super-additive to evolution, no?
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean true philosophy is superadditive to evolution?
The UB is a revelatory text that encompasses and transcends, philosophy, religion and science.
That’s my point. It’s a revelation. And it is described in the UB as a religious revelation. I haven’t found anything that suggests philosophical revelation and/or scientific revelation is ever epochal.
92:4.4 There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance.
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean true philosophy is superadditive to evolution?
That revelation may be super-additive to evolution.
Richard E Warren
That revelation may be super-additive to evolution.
But that has nothing to do with what I was referring to. My post was about Scott’s statement that true philosophy is superadditive. I was referring to true philosophy, not revelation.
Revelation is a compensation for the failure of the awareness of truth by the evolutionary mind. Before revelation can become superadditive, I suppose it would still have to comply with the elliptic symmetry of reality and the essential curvature of all relation concepts and then be unified by personality in actual experience. That would be a possession of the soul, which is a spiritual phenomenon, and hence revelation is essentially religious in its manifestation.
That’s my point. It’s a revelation. And it is described in the UB as a religious revelation. I haven’t found anything that suggests philosophical revelation and/or scientific revelation is ever epochal.
Well this quote is saying that this revelation is philosophical……
1105.5) 101:2.1 The fact of religion consists wholly in the religious experience of rational and average human beings. And this is the only sense in which religion can ever be regarded as scientific or even psychological. The proof that revelation is revelation is this same fact of human experience: the fact that revelation does synthesize the apparently divergent sciences of nature and the theology of religion into a consistent and logical universe philosophy, a co-ordinated and unbroken explanation of both science and religion, thus creating a harmony of mind and satisfaction of spirit which answers in human experience those questionings of the mortal mind which craves to know how the Infinite works out his will and plans in matter, with minds, and on spirit.
True Philosophy is what you get when you synthesize science and religion. This fundamental pattern of mixing spirit and matter is expressed in the 2 infinite reservoirs of potentiality (Unqualified Absolute and Deity Absolute). The superadditive result of these 2 infinite reservoirs is the Universal Absolute/Infinite Upholder. A true philosophical consciousness unites spiritual religion with material science in mind.
~ The Urantia Book, (101:4.4) Science deals with facts; religion is concerned only with values. Through enlightened philosophy the mind endeavors to unite the meanings of both facts and values, thereby arriving at a concept of complete reality. ~ The Urantia Book, (101:5.2)
Here is something to consider. The morontia viewpoint that we are missing is called mota. Revelation is a compensation for that missing mota perspective. Mota is a superphilosophical perspective….
1106.1)101:2.2 Reason is the method of science; faith is the method of religion; logic is the attempted technique of philosophy. Revelation compensates for the absence of the morontia viewpoint by providing a technique for achieving unity in the comprehension of the reality and relationships of matter and spirit by the mediation of mind. And true revelation never renders science unnatural, religion unreasonable, or philosophy illogical.
(1106.9)101:2.10 Faith reveals God in the soul. Revelation, the substitute for morontia insight on an evolutionary world, enables man to see the same God in nature that faith exhibits in his soul. Thus does revelation successfully bridge the gulf between the material and the spiritual, even between the creature and the Creator, between man and God.
True Philosophy is that same bridge between matter and spirit in mind, its just a human philosophical perspective will never be as clear as a literal revelation. So what philosophy fails to do partially revelation fully succeeds.
1106.6)101:2.7 Science ends its reason-search in the hypothesis of a First Cause. Religion does not stop in its flight of faith until it is sure of a God of salvation. The discriminating study of science logically suggests the reality and existence of an Absolute. Religion believes unreservedly in the existence and reality of a God who fosters personality survival. What metaphysics fails utterly in doing, and what even philosophy fails partially in doing, revelation does; that is, affirms that this First Cause of science and religion’s God of salvation are one and the same Deity.
This is an admission that this revelation is doing the same thing that philosophy does.
Matter and Spirit are really just 2 sides of the same coin. They are both energies. Thats it. We have to purpose spirit with our personality through a moral/philosophical consciousness. The moral realm is the philosophical realm. The 5th is building off the 4th. There needs to be True Religion in place in order for True Philosophy to even be there. The 4th epochal revelation is that True Religion.
Here is where the authors tell us what our world is missing and where we need help…
(1098.4) 100:5.1 The world is filled with lost souls, not lost in the theologic sense but lost in the directional meaning, wandering about in confusion among the isms and cults of a frustrated philosophic era. Too few have learned how to install a philosophy of living in the place of religious authority. (The symbols of socialized religion are not to be despised as channels of growth, albeit the river bed is not the river.)
We are lost philosophically. We are not lost theologically because Jesus actually did his job. What is missing is True Philosophy. Philosophy gives us a better idea of God. Religion gives us the ideal of God. People have the ideal of God, but very few have a very good idea of God. TUB is giving us what we need most right now as a planet.
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