-
Posts
-
Oh I agree that the material should not be obscured or ignored by spirit; it needs to be dominated by spirit. If it was okay to eclipse matter, Michael wouldn’t have had the need to incarnate. But the spiritual is suppose to dominate the material. Spirit dominates mind and then the spirit dominated mind dominates matter. And it is possible to dominate without eclipsing.
111:6.4 The spirit can dominate mind; so mind can control energy.
12:18.5 In cosmic evolution matter becomes a philosophic shadow cast by mind in the presence of spirit luminosity of divine enlightenment, but this does not invalidate the reality of matter-energy. Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity. Consciousness of divinity is a progressive spiritual experience.
No matter how you look at it, spirit is at the top, motivating and directing personality in its relations with mind and matter. But it is not about keeping matter, mind and spirit in balance either. It’s all about allowing spirit to dominate. That’s what they mean by doing God’s will. When spirit dominates, when doing God’s will, everything is in its right place for the right purpose.
Certainly, mind cannot be ignored because that is the intervening arena where experience takes place. Likewise, matter cannot be ignored by humans because the mind needs it in order to function on this level and the personality needs it for relations. But when the spirit is dominating one’s life, all other relations of reality are clear and in their proper alignment. Life is all about the metaphor of staying connected to the vine, the vine being the Spirit. Being born of the Spirit means that the spirit dominates every phase of your existence, including matter and mind.
34:6.7 . . . the divine Spirit must dominate and control every phase of human experience.
In regards to facts, the “it” part of reality: Facts are just things until they are discovered by mind and given meaning. We will be spending eternity discovering the “it” part of God. Yet, we will find and know the person of God long before we discover all of his “Itness”.
102:6.6 God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him.
(1114.4) 101:7.6 Philosophy transforms that primitive religion which was largely a fairy tale of conscience into a living experience in the ascending values of cosmic reality.
This quote is speaking to everyone. Philosophy transforms our religion from a fairy tale of conscience. In other words if we haven’t found true philosophy we are all starting out with this fairy tale conscience. We are all living in this fairy tale of conscience of religion without True Philosophy. We cannot even begin to ascend anywhere without philosophy. This is what is really needed on the planet right now.
What’s wrong with fairy tales? Jesus was never able to erase the fairy tale of messiahship from his apostles’ minds, yet they made tremendous spiritual progress. I actually think it’s a big mistake to take away myths or fairy tales altogether; they’re part of the mystery. In a way, man cannot escape mystery. Mystery is in the same family as faith and uncertainty, necessities for spiritual progress.
p27:2 1:4.7 As a reality in human spiritual experience God is not a mystery. But when an attempt is made to make plain the realities of the spirit world to the physical minds of the material order, mystery appears: mysteries so subtle and so profound that only the faith-grasp of the God-knowing mortal can achieve the philosophic miracle of the recognition of the Infinite by the finite, the discernment of the eternal God by the evolving mortals of the material worlds of time and space.
<!– .bbp-reply-author –>
What’s wrong with fairy tales? Jesus was never able to erase the fairy tale of messiahship from his apostles’ minds, yet they made tremendous spiritual progress. I actually think it’s a big mistake to take away myths or fairy tales altogether; they’re part of the mystery. In a way, man cannot escape mystery. Mystery is in the same family as faith and uncertainty, necessities for spiritual progress.Hahaha. Except the authors are not talking about fairy tales they are talking about living in an illusionary world, its a “fairy tale of conscience”. There is nothing inherently wrong with it but don’t we want take the blue pill and wake up from the dream world? I mean being asleep in a fairy tale world is nice until you start realizing that you are dreaming and the world you have constructed is not real. Its all an illusionary world made by you.Oh I agree that the material should not be obscured or ignored by spirit; it needs to be dominated by spirit. If it was okay to eclipse matter, Michael wouldn’t have had the need to incarnate. But the spiritual is suppose to dominate the material. Spirit dominates mind and then the spirit dominated mind dominates matter. And it is possible to dominate without eclipsing.
111:6.4 The spirit can dominate mind; so mind can control energy.
12:18.5 In cosmic evolution matter becomes a philosophic shadow cast by mind in the presence of spirit luminosity of divine enlightenment, but this does not invalidate the reality of matter-energy. Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity. Consciousness of divinity is a progressive spiritual experience.
No matter how you look at it, spirit is at the top, motivating and directing personality in its relations with mind and matter. But it is not about keeping matter, mind and spirit in balance either. It’s all about allowing spirit to dominate. That’s what they mean by doing God’s will. When spirit dominates, when doing God’s will, everything is in its right place for the right purpose.
Certainly, mind cannot be ignored because that is the intervening arena where experience takes place. Likewise, matter cannot be ignored by humans because the mind needs it in order to function on this level and the personality needs it for relations. But when the spirit is dominating one’s life, all other relations of reality are clear and in their proper alignment. Life is all about the metaphor of staying connected to the vine, the vine being the Spirit. Being born of the Spirit means that the spirit dominates every phase of your existence, including matter and mind.
34:6.7 . . . the divine Spirit must dominate and control every phase of human experience.
In regards to facts, the “it” part of reality: Facts are just things until they are discovered by mind and given meaning. We will be spending eternity discovering the “it” part of God. Yet, we will find and know the person of God long before we discover all of his “Itness”.
102:6.6 God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him.
But we are talking about our inner world. What about our outer world? The outer world needs to be bridged with the inner world. If all we are doing is focussing on our inner world the outside world will be a fairy tale world. Mind is the mediator between the outer world and our inner world, Philosophy is that bridge between the two.
Even in the inner world the real dominating influence is personality. Personality tells spirit what to do, and spirit tells mind what to do and mind tells our body (matter) what to do. Spirit in and of itself is just an energy. It has to be purposed by personality. Even the T.A who is a spirit being is subservient to our personality.
I wasn’t talking about just the inner world. Matter is not the inner world. Where did you get that idea from what I wrote?
But yes, I agree that there has to be a balance between nourishing the soul and exercising it. The soul needs both.
91:7.2 The soul of man requires spiritual exercise as well as spiritual nourishment.
Nourishment comes from the inner life and exercise the outer. But the outer life must be dominated by the spirit who indwells the inner life. The phrase in the next quote which states “every phase of human experience”, means both the inner and outer lives.
34:6.7 . . . the divine Spirit must dominate and control every phase of human experience.
The outer world isn’t the inner world, it’s not subject to what is happening within us. The outer world isn’t human experience, its the cosmos. Also the soul is not merely spiritual we are trying to create a symmetry of soul, the soul is material and spiritual. Spirit is what lifts our consciousness up. Spirit grabs a hold of a philosophical consciousness and takes it up.
The outer world isn’t the inner world, it’s not subject to what is happening within us.
If the outer world is not subject to the inner world then why is the advancement of civilization born in the inner world of mankind (111:4.3)? If the outer world is not subject to the inner world then why is it that we become aware of our brothers because of the inner experience of the fatherhood of God? And if the outer world is not subject to the inner world, why did Jesus say that if we had enough faith we could move mountains, why are we encouraged to pray in the inner world for answers to problems of the outer world? Why would Jesus say anything about spiritual fruit? Why did Jesus come at all if what’s happening within us has no affect on the outer world? However, It is true that we cannot completely control the outer world with the inner world, but the inner world strongly affects the outer world of every individual. And that’s how we’re supposed to change the world, by changing ourselves and we do that in the inner world.
The outer world isn’t human experience, its the cosmos.
The outer world is part of human experience. The following quote defines human experience as an interplay between the self and an external (outer) reality. You can’t have an interplay without the inner and the outer interacting with one another.
102:4.2 What is human experience? It is simply any interplay between an active and questioning self and any other active and external reality.
Also the soul is not merely spiritual we are trying to create a symmetry of soul, the soul is material and spiritual.
Well first of all, the soul is neither material or spiritual; it is morontial, so the last part of your sentence is not factual.
0:5.10 The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual–it is morontial.
The words, symmetry of soul, do not appear in the UB. It’s the personality that becomes more symmetric as it becomes more real because reality is stunningly symmetric. And we do not create the soul, we cocreate the soul.
100:7.1 The unique feature of the Master’s personality was not so much its perfection as its symmetry, its exquisite and balanced unification.
Spirit grabs a hold of a philosophical consciousness and takes it up.
That’s not what I read. Spirit grabs anything of spiritual value – the spirit gravity circuit.
7:3.2 The spiritual-gravity pull of the Eternal Son constitutes the inherent secret of the Paradise ascension of surviving human souls. All genuine spirit values and all bona fide spiritualized individuals are held within the unfailing grasp of the spiritual gravity of the Eternal Son.
What exactly is the philosophical consciousness? I can’t find it in the book. And why would the spirit gravity circuit attract something that is not spirit? Philosophy may be subject to mind gravity circuits, I suppose.
9:6.1 The Third Source and Center, the universal intelligence, is personally conscious of every mind, every intellect, in all creation, and he maintains a personal and perfect contact with all these physical, morontial, and spiritual creatures of mind endowment in the far-flung universes. All these activities of mind are grasped in the absolute mind–gravity circuit which focalizes in the Third Source and Center and is a part of the personal consciousness of the Infinite Spirit.
Also the soul is not merely spiritual we are trying to create a symmetry of soul, the soul is material and spiritual.
Well first of all, the soul is neither material or spiritual; it is morontial, so the last part of your sentence is not factual.
Morontia substance is a super-additive mix of matter and spirit.
(9.2) 0:5.12 Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.
16:4.5 Unquestionably, when we encounter the functional activities of the various morontia Power Supervisors, we are face to face with certain of the unrevealed activities of the Master Spirits. Who, aside from these ancestors of both physical controllers and spirit ministers, could have contrived so to combine and associate material and spiritual energies as to produce a hitherto nonexistent phase of universe reality — morontia substance and morontia mind?48:1.3 All of these worlds are architectural spheres, and they have just double the number of elements of the evolved planets. Such made-to-order worlds not only abound in the heavy metals and crystals, having one hundred physical elements, but likewise have exactly one hundred forms of a unique energy organization called morontia material. The Master Physical Controllers and the morontia Power Supervisors are able so to modify the revolutions of the primary units of matter and at the same time so to transform these associations of energy as to create this new substance.
They are combining physical energy (matter) with spirit energy to form morontia substance. Obviously water is not oxygen or hydrogen but those particles help make up water. In the same sense that Morontia substance is not matter or spirit but those energies make up morontia substance. When oxygen and hydrogen come together they form a new super-additive mix that is unlike oxygen or hydrogen it is a qualitatively new substance.
If the outer world is not subject to the inner world then why is the advancement of civilization born in the inner world of mankind (111:4.3)?
The outer world is the reality that exists outside of our human self. Its not literally something within us. All I said was that the outer world is not the inner world, its not us. We can’t confuse the two domains. What’s happening outside our self shouldn’t be confused with what is happening with us. But yes the outer world can be experienced in human experience but the outer world is not literally human experience. It just is.
TUB: Spirit grabs a hold of a philosophical consciousness and takes it up.
Bonita: That’s not what I read. Spirit grabs anything of spiritual value – the spirit gravity circuit.
If our consciousness is something of spiritual value it will be grabbed. A true philosophical consciousness is spiritual, that 3rd cosmic intuition is literally a spiritual intuition it can get mixed in with our whole consciousness.
We can agree that morontia is derived from material and spiritual precursors but the new substance is neither material or spiritual as the quote says. Now that you explained yourself, I know what you meant by saying, “the soul is material and spiritual,” but you’ve implied that if we create some kind of symmetry between material and spiritual that we can promote soul growth. That’s not how it works. It sounds nice though. It’s what all of those yoga chakra people are trying to do, I think.
The outer world is the reality that exists outside of our human self. Its not literally something within us.
You must think I’m really dumb.
A true philosophical consciousness is spiritual, . . .
Where does it say that? I could agree that true spiritual consciousness is philosophically reasonable. But I don’t see where philosophy of any kind is spiritual. This is the closest I could come to what you said:
102:2.6 Unity is best found in human experience through philosophy. And while the body of philosophic thought must ever be founded on material facts, the soul and energy of true philosophic dynamics is mortal spiritual insight.I understand this to mean that true philosophy is driven by the desires of spiritual insight, but philosophy is still founded on the material, not the spiritual.that 3rd cosmic intuition is literally a spiritual intuition it can get mixed in with our whole consciousness.
I don’t know what you mean by “mixed in”. The third cosmic intuition is a reality recognition response, a function of consciousness, but it is not a level of consciousness. And spiritual intuition is an endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Adjuster (101:3.2).
So anyway, what’s the bottom line here? Philosophy has its place, for sure. I won’t deny that. But I’ve always been a believer in the importance of spiritualized thinking, not philosophical thinking, because it’s spiritualized thinking that guides you Godward. And that’s what it’s all about.(192.1) 16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:
(192.2) 16:6.6 1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.3) 16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.4) 16:6.8 3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.
(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.
(192.6) 16:6.10 In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.
These 3 ways of looking at reality can get unified. The philosophic domain is the same domain as morality. The 3rd cosmic intuition is spiritual insight. When the 3 cosmic intuitions are unified all 3 intuitions becomes spiritual.
(2095.1) 196:3.17 Moral evaluation with a religious meaning — spiritual insight — connotes the individual’s choice between good and evil, truth and error, material and spiritual, human and divine, time and eternity.
(40.6) 2:6.2 Religion implies that the superworld of spirit nature is cognizant of, and responsive to, the fundamental needs of the human world. Evolutionary religion may become ethical, but only revealed religion becomes truly and spiritually moral.
Our moral/philosophical consciousness gets infused with spiritual insight. Spiritual insight doesn’t just belong to religious matters it takes up our entire consciousness. Its not like where if someone just thinks about something spiritual they get this spiritual insight. Every phase of mortal existence becomes infused with spiritual insight. Even our scientific intuition becomes spiritual.
Regarding that quote about philosophy being grounded in facts. If your building a pyramid in your mind you start with a solid factual base. If we start with spirit first we will be building a upside down pyramid. The whole thing will topple.
Our moral/philosophical consciousness gets infused with spiritual insight.
And where does spiritual insight come from?
Regarding that quote about philosophy being grounded in facts. If your building a pyramid in your mind you start with a solid factual base. If we start with spirit first we will be building a upside down pyramid. The whole thing will topple.
No offense, but I like the way Jesus described that better. We’re supposed to build on both intellectual and moral foundations of character. Nothing there about facts:
156:5.2 Let every man make sure that the intellectual and moral foundations of character are such as will adequately support the superstructure of the enlarging and ennobling spiritual nature, which is thus to transform the mortal mind and then, in association with that re-created mind, is to achieve the evolvement of the soul of immortal destiny. Your spirit nature — the jointly created soul — is a living growth, but the mind and morals of the individual are the soil from which these higher manifestations of human development and divine destiny must spring.
And where does spiritual insight come from?
That is the gift of the Holy Spirit. Its a mindal gift. We borrow her mind and get access to these intuitions.
No offense, but I like the way Jesus described that better. We’re supposed to build on both intellectual and moral foundations of character. Nothing there about facts:
Jesus mission was purely spiritual. He didn’t have a philosophic mission. Every revelation builds off the previous. He was building off primitive religions. Evolution can only go so fast, he couldn’t reveal things like Deity is personalizable as God to primitive people. That would have been to much. Everything in the 5th would have been to much for primitive people back in those days. Even today it wouldn’t be wise to take this book to places in the middle east and give it to some primitive person. This book is not meant for people functioning at a extremely primitive level. Its meant for people who are ready for a greater challenge a higher challenge. Its meant for people who have already embraced the loving Father revealed in the 4th and are ready for the next step. If we haven’t found the Father through the 4th we probably shouldn’t even be reading the 5th IMO, that is the first step. If someone becomes to dissolutioned by something so advanced they will just drop everything. That is what Caligastia did to the world, he revealed everything all at once and it was disasterous. People where not supposed to hear about things like Paradise way back when the Princes staff was here. They were supposed to start with things like the constellation fathers. That is the normal way to do it. But Jesus never did speak against facts and things like that. “He who shall not work shall not eat”.
That is the gift of the Holy Spirit. Its a mindal gift. We borrow her mind and get access to these intuitions.
Yes, spiritual insight is a gift, but not from the Holy Spirit. It’s a gift from the Adjuster. Spiritual insight is “that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind”(101:1.5). The cosmic mind, made personable by the personal presence of the Holy Spirit, provides the mechanism by which the mind recognizes the gift of spiritual insight – by use of the third recognition response of worship.
I would not describe spiritual insight as infusing our consciousness, as you said. Spiritual insight begins with a process of discovery, it is then recognized with help from the cosmic mind/Holy Spirit presence. At that point the Adjuster combines and spiritizes worthy ideals, which are then interpreted with help from the personal presence of the Spirit of Truth. Interpretation of these spiritized thoughts means that the mind begins to understand how they relate to life, this is spiritual philosophy. Then, when the personality chooses to act upon them and apply them to life (doing God’s will), they become a permanent part of the soul.
I don’t see this as an infusion process; I see it as a partnership in progress. And this is how revelation works (101:6.7) Yes, it does affect one’s philosophy of living because each time a person permits himself to undergo the process of spiritual insight and finally chooses to act upon the result, he/she experiences a new divine invasion of the soul. The soul grows, creating more capacity for receptivity, and more spiritual fruit. When it comes to spiritual insight, all we can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose. (196:3.10)
Jesus mission was purely spiritual. He didn’t have a philosophic mission.
Yes, Jesus’ mission was spiritual, but he did have a philosophy:
- 130:2.2 This man was much impressed with Jesus‘philosophy of life and never forgot his words of wisdom regarding “the living of the heavenly life while on earth by means of daily submission to the will of the heavenly Father.”
- 140:4.9 Jesus‘ discourse at the ordination of the twelve constitutes a master philosophy of life. Jesus exhorted his followers to exercise experiential faith.
- 140:8.14 The family occupied the very center of Jesus‘ philosophy of life — here and hereafter.
- 140:10.5 The one characteristic of Jesus‘ teaching was that the morality of his philosophy originated in the personal relation of the individual to God — this very child-father relationship.
- 159:5.17 Jesus brought the philosophy of religion from heaven down to earth. He portrayed the elemental needs of the soul with a new insight and a new bestowal of affection.
TUB wrote: . . . he couldn’t reveal things like Deity is personalizable as God to primitive people. That would have been to much.That’s odd. I’m sure that is exactly what he did reveal to those primitive people. He admitted to being the Son of God, which is revealing Deity as a person. If he didn’t do that, then just what did he do?
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.