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Thanks for the correction Bonita!
I mistakenly thought that the transitional experiences between Creator Son and Master Son by the 7 bestowals were still a perfecting experience. But the Creator Sons originate in the Central Universe and not in time and space either. My bad.
That’s what I like about you Bradly. You recognize error and correct it, unlike those who keep screaming the same falsehoods over and over again, never willing to recognize or correct their errors, even minor ones. To me that seems to be a form of self-admiration, but perhaps I exaggerate . . . hard to tell.
Anyway, I completely understand why you would think that experience is part of the process of perfecting and because Creator Sons go through experience they might be part of that process. Apparently that’s the way it works for evolutionary beings, those of us born out here in time and space. Creator Sons are not evolutionary beings, they are those unique beings who bring perfection to experience while at the same time bring experience to perfection. Hope that makes sense. It’s the thing about bringing God down to man while man struggles to climb up to God. Michael did both. As a Creator Son he brought God down to man and as a human being, Jesus, he underwent the struggle to climb up to God. It’s really cool stuff when you think about it. His human nature struggled to become perfected but his divine nature was already perfect, not unlike what happens with us on a different level. Our human natures are struggling to become perfected but our divine nature, the Adjuster, is already perfect. It’s a beautiful thing. And all that work is part of the Supreme. The process of Michael becoming a Master of Supremacy is due to his actualization and personal realization of all the perfect potentials of the Supreme which were already present within his nature (21:64). His seven experiences were all part of this actualization process on different levels. Not sure I explained that very well. Ehh . . . maybe better next time.
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but perhaps I exaggerate . . .
You mean like the Washington Post?
POPPYCOCK ALERT: Jesus did not fuse. His Adjuster was personalized.
Even though it is stated in the UB that Jesus’ thought adjuster was personalized, this was an extra ordinary event because of being Jesus but, in all other aspects surrounding this event, it would have been considered as “fusion”. An expansion of terms by another name. So I’m surprised “Bonita” that you are not able to expand this aspect of the text to have the same, if not expanded meaning? Poppycock, indeed!
(1511.2) 136:2.3 Ordinarily, when a mortal of the realm attains such high levels of personality perfection, there occur those preliminary phenomena of spiritual elevation which terminate in eventual fusion of the matured soul of the mortal with its associated divine Adjuster. And such a change was apparently due to take place in the personality experience of Jesus of Nazareth on that very day when he went down into the Jordan with his two brothers to be baptized by John. This ceremony was the final act of his purely human life on Urantia, and many superhuman observers expected to witness the fusion of the Adjuster with its indwelt mind, but they were all destined to suffer disappointment. Something new and even greater occurred. As John laid his hands upon Jesus to baptize him, the indwelling Adjuster took final leave of the perfected human soul of Joshua ben Joseph. And in a few moments this divine entity returned from Divinington as a Personalized Adjuster and chief of his kind throughout the entire local universe of Nebadon. Thus did Jesus observe his own former divine spirit descending on its return to him in personalized form. And he heard this same spirit of Paradise origin now speak, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.” And John, with Jesus’ two brothers, also heard these words. John’s disciples, standing by the water’s edge, did not hear these words, neither did they see the apparition of the Personalized Adjuster. Only the eyes of Jesus beheld the Personalized Adjuster.
His personalized Adjuster, was in fact, His Father.
(1522.7) 136:9.8 Jesus of Nazareth reached the conclusion that such utterances did not refer to him. At last, and finally, the human mind of the Son of Man made a clean sweep of all these Messianic difficulties and contradictions — Hebrew scriptures, parental training, chazan teaching, Jewish expectations, and human ambitious longings; once and for all he decided upon his course. He would return to Galilee and quietly begin the proclamation of the kingdom and trust his Father (the Personalized Adjuster) to work out the details of procedure day by day.
VanAmadon wrote: Which book did he read Brad? Perhaps it was best for him that he didn’t have a book that said (according to you) that it was alright to wait to live on another world to be personally perfect. That might have been dangerous to the fulfillment of his purpose.This is another bunch of poppycock that just mystifies me for so many reasons. We’re clearly told that the psychic circles must eventually be attained. There is nothing at all mentioned about the necessity of completing them in one lifetime, or even that it’s a likelihood . I actually think it’s rather arrogant to think you will.
112:5.6 Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.
Fusing during this lifetime is not as important as the experience of living and learning God’s way to live.
p435:6 39:4.13 To the inhabited worlds the quickeners of morality portray mortal life as an unbroken chain of many links. Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction—consciousness of achievement—and this transcends any conceivable material reward.
Does it really matter where we fuse? Here, there or nowhere? Don’t forget that there are some unfortunate souls, due to no fault of their own, who never fuse. It’s a huge disappointment to them, but they carry on.
40:8.1 While practically all surviving mortals are fused with their Adjusters on one of the mansion worlds or immediately upon their arrival on the higher morontia spheres, there are certain cases of delayed fusion, some not experiencing this final surety of survival until they reach the last educational worlds of the universe headquarters; and a few of these mortal candidates for never-ending life utterly fail to attain identity fusion with their faithful Adjusters.
And there’s another little thing mentioned in that quote above. It says that practically all mortals fuse on one of the mansion worlds. I know elsewhere it says in the later eras of light and life this changes, but what arrogance to think you’re going to fuse while living this life in this era!! It’s pretty unlikely. Yes, it’s okay to desire it, but to belittle people into thinking they’re inadequate for reading a book and not playing baseball beats the hell out of me.
Which leads me to the real reason I’m responding to this poppycock. Both the oral and the written word is extremely important in matters of the spirit. Although it is true that God listens to our intentions rather than our words, God is not the only person we talk to. Words play a vital part in person to person communication on many different levels. It’s not only in deeds, but also in words that we reveal what is inside our hearts, minds and souls. Enlightened individuals take care with their words and with the words of others. The words of celestials, which we are so privileged to have the opportunity to read in the revelation, are painstakingly chosen and worth focused study. And, truly enlightened individuals find those words compellingly authoritative, as it says in the quote below. Words, not as rules, regulations and mandates to live by, but words of authoritative truth; dependable, trustworthy and definitive truth. Who would not want to read and contemplate truth? I guess the unenlightened.
102:2.2 One of the characteristic peculiarities of genuine religious assurance is that, notwithstanding the absoluteness of its affirmations and the stanchness of its attitude, the spirit of its expression is so poised and tempered that it never conveys the slightest impression of self-assertion or egoistic exaltation. The wisdom of religious experience is something of a paradox in that it is both humanly original and Adjuster derivative. Religious force is not the product of the individual’s personal prerogatives but rather the outworking of that sublime partnership of man and the everlasting source of all wisdom. Thus do the words and acts of true and undefiled religion become compellingly authoritative for all enlightened mortals.
Oh, and one more thing for Van/nod. If you notice in the above quote, it says that religious force, i.e. uplift, is the product of a partnership. Just another example of what I’ve been trying to explain to you in so many varied ways.
Just another example of what I’ve been trying to explain to you in so many varied ways.
Thank you for your service Bonita. Especially for your support and how you’re always careful not to belittle.
POPPYCOCK ALERT: Jesus did not fuse with his Adjuster. His Adjuster received his very own separate personality.
Jesus did not need to fuse with an Adjuster because his personality is already perfect . . . .always was and always will be. The personality of the human Jesus was and is no different than the personality of the divine Michael Son. They both had one and the same personality.
Fusion has to do with the mind, progression in the psychic circles (which is why they’re called psychic). Jesus conquered his human mind. But, being a Creator Son, when this happened, his personality was able to wholly shift his identify to his very own Divinity. He did not require a focus of Divinity, such as an Adjuster, to shift his identity to. This is not called fusion. For Michael it was a union of his human self with his very own divine self. If you want to use the word fusion, then Jesus/Michael fused with himself. But they clearly tell us that he did not fuse, that something new and greater occurred. That new and greater thing was that he perfectly united his very own creature self with his very own Creator self, which is what the Supreme is all about. He did it on the level of Supremacy and fulfilled all those potentials, which is what changed everything for everyone. He became the Way to Supremacy.
21:6.4 Just as the Deity of the Supreme is actualizing by virtue of experiential service, so are the Creator Sons achieving the personal realization of the Paradise-divinity potentials bound up in their unfathomable natures.
115:6.4 The Supreme not only grows as the Creators and creatures of the evolving universes attain to Godlikeness, but this finite Deity also experiences growth as a result of the creature and Creator mastery of the finite possibilities of the grand universe. The motion of the Supreme is twofold: intensively toward Paradise and Deity and extensively toward the limitlessness of the Absolutes of potential.
116:3.3 The Supreme is both creature and creator; the possibility of his being such is revealed in the bestowal actions of the Eternal Son and his co-ordinate and subordinate Sons. The bestowal orders of sonship, the Michaels and the Avonals, actually augment their divine natures with bona fide creature natures which have become theirs by the living of the actual creature life on the evolutionary worlds. When divinity becomes like humanity, inherent in this relationship is the possibility that humanity can become divine.
117:1.4 The will of the Creator and the will of the creature are qualitatively different, but they are also experientially akin, for creature and Creator can collaborate in the achievement of universe perfection. Man can work in liaison with God and thereby cocreate an eternal finaliter. God can work even as humanity in the incarnations of his Sons, who thereby achieve the supremacy of creature experience.
And here again, for Van/nod, in the last quote you can see that there is no such thing as going it alone. You alone are not the “uplift”. Nor is the combination of you and the rest of us the “uplift”. It’s a creature/Creator event.
Thank you for your service Bonita. Especially for your support and how you’re always careful not to belittle.
Sounds like sarcasm to me. But let’s say, just for giggles, that your words are sincere. In which case I’ll say thank you, you’re most kind.
Sounds like sarcasm to me.No, that’s appreciation.VanAmadon is definitely not being sarcastic however, when he says you’re one of his favorites Bonita (you too Brad). There is much to be gained by receiving good natured rebuke, and I’ll take my fair share.
VanAmadon wrote: Which book did he read Brad? Perhaps it was best for him that he didn’t have a book that said (according to you) that it was alright to wait to live on another world to be personally perfect. That might have been dangerous to the fulfillment of his purpose.
This is another bunch of poppycock that just mystifies me for so many reasons. We’re clearly told that the psychic circles must eventually be attained. There is nothing at all mentioned about the necessity of completing them in one lifetime, or even that it’s a likelihood . I actually think it’s rather arrogant to think you will.
I’m wondering “Bonita” in your response to what “VanAmadon” wrote to “Brad”, and in the remainder of your response, had little to do with “VanAmadon’s” statement, where it was in reference to the reading of the, so called, Book of Enoch, by Jesus.
I’m aware of the context of all of the Books of Enoch and their various translations and can confirm what the UB had indicated, where I also found much of interest in these texts. Nevertheless, as the UB indicates that Jesus decided to use the title “Son of Man” in his ministry, this term is also found many times in “Ezekiel” as a personal identifier. But, with Enoch, it also implies that the “Son of Man” implies “Adam” of the Old Testament, or in part “Noah”. Therefore, as “VanAmadon” seems to be implying, is that Jesus may have understood this term, written in Enoch, as a reference to himself, as might indicate as a incarnation of sorts over time?
Where it might also be assumed that the Book of Revelation, in the New Testament, or the Revelation of Jesus, as some have interpreted, is a presentation for the future second coming of Jesus, so that He might read it in His incarnated being, and its study thereof, would possible awaken Him to His prior identity, throughout history? But, this is speculation, but also possible.
Therefore, the statement which “VanAmadon” had presented is in its context viable, yet not understood by those who seek to discredit those who think differently.
Hey there Van/nod. Were you referring to the Book of Enoch when you asked what book Enoch read? I don’t think you could have meant Jesus because you said it was best that he didn’t have a book and Jesus clearly did have a book. You were referring to the so called “Rule Book”, right? The one you think we’re all too busy with and if Enoch had done the same, he never would have fused. Did I get that right? If not, correct me.
POPPYCOCK ALERT: Enoch could not have read the Book of Enoch. Enoch was born around 35,776 B.C. The Book of Enoch was written in 3600 B.C..
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Oh brother Bonita, you’re beginning to feel like a toothache. Where’s my pliers?
Hey there Van/nod. Were you referring to the Book of Enoch when you asked what book Enoch read? I don’t think you could have meant Jesus because you said it was best that he didn’t have a book and Jesus clearly did have a book. You were referring to the so called “Rule Book”, right? The one you think we’re all too busy with and if Enoch had done the same, he never would have fused. Did I get that right? If not, correct me.
Actually “Bonita”, I took a little liberty to infuse a point which was implied earlier in the topic, but by rereading the posts in question and in review thereof, you will find that “VanAmadon” when stating “Which book did he read Brad?” was the Urantia Book, however in what followed as “(according to you)” was meant to imply – The Urantia Book (according to you [Brad]). At least that’s how I understood it but, it did give me an opportunity to present some UB context, which would otherwise be off topic, but also pertain to the insertion of “Enoch” in this topic, which would indicate that a mortal can fuse, prior to death, etc.
On another note, this shows how easily it is to become confused when replies are short and to a specific point, or directed at a specific action which is implied within written words.
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