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VanAmadon wrote: So what you are saying is what I see some others say a lot on these forums, that we, you and the rest of us don’t really need to do much. We just need to be what we are and everything else is taken care of. It’s God’s world and he will do the lifting. It really doesn’t matter if, where or when we do anything, because we’ll all get there some day. That’s fine.
I am very confused by this statement/claim which I have often heard and even been personally accused of….it really makes no sense. What student of the UB could possibly come to believe such? I haven’t heard a single student voice anywhere at any time at any forum, study group, conference, or social media site ever claim that no one needs do nothing to grow in the spirit and make circle progress.
There are two distinct issues which such a claim must surely intertwine falsely: the first is survival of mortal death and the second is fusion – when ascension and eternal life begins. Any student of the UB certainly must know this distinction!! And any student that becomes well read is personally challenged to become transformed within and to transcend from tadpole to fusion and on to finaliter status. No one in the universes does nothing and neither can a tadpole become a frog by doing nothing. We make our progress by our choosing and our doing and we are obligated, by the teachings in the UB, to cooperate and respond and grow – to both BE and DO according to our understanding and our wisdom and to become more today than yesterday and more tomorrow than today BY the choosing and doing. We are born as curious adventurers seeking that which we do not yet know or have not yet done. We are wired this way.
Procrastination, idleness, self indulgence, escape from conflict, denial of reality, indifference, and all such avoidance of reality cannot bring transformation, circle progress, or fusion. What UB student is indifferent to eternal life? There is no eternal life without fusion we are taught. To know of soul and believe its importance, requires a very pro-active awareness and response to life – today and every day.
True religion – that personal experience of God and with God – is an expression. Faith is a verb requiring expression in choice and by deed. Such faith does not obligate us to act, it compels us and nurtures us and inspires us and leads us. The UB is hardly more than a door-stop unless and until this fact and truth of living is discovered within its pages and within our hearts.
It is never okay or enough to simply “be what we are”…who has ever said this? We are to be transformed and such transformation is not a one time event…and it takes courage, attention, focus, effort, consequences to error, wisdom gained by experience, and more and more and more decisions. True sincerity and love of and faith in God requires a personal response and does so every day. The pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness results in change so “what we are” changes as a tadpole goes slowly, step by step, from all tail and gills to all legs and lungs. We must live loyally to our ideals and in universe reality as tadpoles. A tadpole who eventually turns into frog must live and act and be and do as tadpole or frogdom/fusion will never come. Or so I see it.
“It’s God’s world and he will do the lifting.”
I have also heard this accusation many times as a result of a student’s confidence in the reality that Urantia will also make it to Light and Life by progressing through the mortal epochs by the Rule of the Most Highs. This is a falsehood as well.
What student of the UB and God believer might think that we are to be indifferent to fear, anger, hate, dishonesty, deceit, violence, or any vice which we may encounter? It is true however that sufficient faith in God’s purpose, plan, power, and love should reduce all anxieties and fears and angers of our own! It is also true that such faith and the love response to God’s love and will should result in better citizenship, better families, better communities, better nations, and a better world by living a faith/love led life.
Who among us, and especially UB students, can be indifferent to the suffering of others….all others? A curious thing to say.
Bradly wrote: To know of soul and believe its importance, requires a very pro-active awareness and response to life – today and every day.You betcha Bradly! Jesus wasn’t just pro-active, he was actually aggressive when it came to facing life’s situations. Aggressively positive and courageous living takes a great, great deal of effort.
159:5.9 Jesus required his followers to react positively and aggressively to every life situation. The turning of the other cheek, or whatever act that may typify, demands initiative, necessitates vigorous, active, and courageous expression of the believer’s personality.
194:3.4 If religion is an opiate to the people, it is not the religion of Jesus. On the cross he refused to drink the deadening drug, and his spirit, poured out upon all flesh, is a mighty world influence which leads man upward and urges him onward. The spiritual forward urge is the most powerful driving force present in this world; the truth-learning believer is the one progressive and aggressive soul on earth.
To further illustrate the differences in survival of mortal death (not yet the beginning of eternal life) and fusion (the beginning of eternal life), let us consider hurdles.
To escape this life, we are told that a mere flicker of faith/hope/love will suffice – a hurdle about 12 inches high; indeed one might merely trip over it and land on Mansion World 1.
To fuse? Well, we will need a pole to vault that 20 feet high bar. In between the minor hurdle of soul birth and the major hurdle of TA fusion, we must jump many, many hurdles of 7 distinct heights/levels.
No true believer or UB student is satisfied with the infant’s hurdle or the pre-school hurdle or the elementary hurdles for we understand that we are preparing for the BIG ONE! We must learn to run and jump and fly and be conditioned to do so. Decisions, decisions, decisions….practice, practice, practice….fail, fail, fail….succeed, succeed, succeed….grow, grow, grow. And when we are prepared properly, we will jump that fusion hurdle with the same ease as we stepped over the very first one.
Those who constantly worry about what others do or do not or should do or not appear to have a very peculiar anxiety which is transferred to all others which merely demonstrates their own very personal doubts and uncertainties about God’s power, purpose, plan, and love for his children. It is an odd thing to “share” – the doubt one has of their own value and destiny. Even more odd is how such a voice carries the accusation/claim that others are not doing something they should be doing, delivering such an indictment without offering the treatment or solution to the perceived/insinuated/claimed faults in others.
It would be good to remember how important each creature of free will is primarily because of our uniqueness from one another. God does not want ONE experience, or one wisdom, or one set of beliefs or any uniformity in choice….except for the source of our choices – love. Love is the very nature and order of the universe. Love does not require nor dictate any specific choices or tasks. Love is celebrated by its effects upon us all…each unique form of tempered and honed free will being, from the fires, hammer, and anvil of experience are never uniform or duplicated. All free will choices by all making free will choices among the trillion of trillions of free will beings deliver a symphony of unique expressions that are the result of God’s plan, purpose, and power.
The UB is a joyful book!! It should inspire all to aspire to greatness and the eternal adventure. It should eliminate anxieties and fears of our existence and our destiny. It should thrill the mind to discover the facts and truths so eloquently presented. It should relieve us of any sense of obligation to save others from hell and, rather, to share the good news that God loves us and has provided a place for us, his family, and all we must do is love him and one another….in our own wonderful, unique, and personal way!
nod, eh? Well that explains much. You are one who has accused me and others of this falsehood before. You hope to bring your anxieties here too? You are certainly welcome to. I would advise caution in inserting accusations into your questions and comments. The question for you (and each of us) is what are YOU doing that you should not be and what are YOU not doing that you should be doing. Such questions keep me very busy with my own circle progress….it’s that beam thing again, you know.
Boo!
Lighten up Brad. You too Bonita.
There might be several teams in the league but all are working to achieve the same goal. Don’t tell me a little variety is too much for you.
nod, eh? Well that explains much. You are one who has accused me and others of this falsehood before. You hope to bring your anxieties here too? You are certainly welcome to. I would advise caution in inserting accusations into your questions and comments. The question for you (and each of us) is what are YOU doing that you should not be and what are YOU not doing that you should be doing. Such questions keep me very busy with my own circle progress….it’s that beam thing again, you know.
Bradly, who are you talking to here? Are you bringing your troubles from another forum into this one?
Then you ask, a question redirected to all of us, which seems a little odd specifically after your recital, partial noted as: “Love does not require nor dictate any specific choices or tasks. Love is celebrated by its effects upon us all…”
From some of your writing here, which by the way has changed in its style, you present that we should love one another, etc., but as I read some of your narrations, I get the distinct impression that you are not practicing what you seem to be preaching? Why do I get that impression? Can you define what your definition is of “love” as you are using it without presenting UB narration?
Bradly wrote: Even more odd is how such a voice carries the accusation/claim that others are not doing something they should be doing, delivering such an indictment without offering the treatment or solution to the perceived/insinuated/claimed faults in others.Isn’t that what churches do? I would think that someone who is trying to corral people toward a pet cause is a person trying to trump up business for his/her church, someone trying to create a religious group based on his/her particular ideas of what religious living “should” be. If there’s one thing I can’t tolerate, it’s churchifcation of the revelation.
The issue under discussion is whether or not God is the Uplifter or whether Van/nod is an uplifter. I go with God over Van/nod. I don’t know what Van/nod thinks he’s uplifting, but it’s not working for me, sorry. Maybe over at truthbook it’s different, don’t know. That is sort of a attaboy club, so churchification might fly there.
Has anyone here come up with a different explanation of why Jesus said that when he is lifted up he will draw all believers to him? He wasn’t talking about the ascension. He was talking about being lifted up within each human heart and soul. He has the uplifting power, all we have to do is discover his presence within us, recognize him and hold on. He has promised that his yoke is easy and his burden light, but that does not mean there is no effort to holding on. It means the joy outweighs the difficulties involved. And Jesus also promised there would be disappointments and problems along the way, but not to worry because he IS the way. Now I just don’t find that sort of comfort in the idea that Van/nod is an uplifter, and I certainly wouldn’t consider myself capable of being a source of spiritual gravity or the WAY to God the Father. Talk about the blind leading the blind . . . geesh. Either you’ve found the Uplifter in your soul, or you haven’t. If you haven’t, you can be sure he’s looking for you. And if you’re all wrapped up in your own uplifting powers, you’ll be too distracted to notice.
So no, I will not lighten up for poppycock. Wherever I find it, I passionately attempt to expose it, shed light on it and help others see it for what it is . . . upside down thinking. It’s not that the thinking itself is wrong, it’s the direction of the thinking that is wrong. If you think you’re an uplifter, then you obviously think you’re something special which points you in the direction of spiritual pride, self-centeredness, conceit and eventual isolation of personality . . . all bad stuff. And it’s a seriously slippery slope. So no . . . I don’t care how much booing and whining poppycock purveyors do, I will not lighten up. I will expose, uncover, unveil and reveal the sneaky little falsehoods that can derail even well intentioned souls. And all the crying about having the right to think differently is also a bunch of tommyrot. Think as differently as you like, just keep your compass calibrated and expect me to point out when you’ve failed to do so. If you don’t like that, there’s always truthbook. I’ll never go there, I promise. I only go there to read and to keep the Pepto-Bismol company in business.
So no, I will not lighten up for poppycock. Wherever I find it, I passionately attempt to expose it, shed light on it and help others see it for what it is . . . upside down thinking. It’s not that the thinking itself is wrong, it’s the direction of the thinking that is wrong. If you think you’re an uplifter, then you obviously think you’re something special which points you in the direction of spiritual pride, self-centeredness, conceit and eventual isolation of personality . . . all bad stuff. And it’s a seriously slippery slope. So no . . . I don’t care how much booing and whining poppycock purveyors do, I will not lighten up. I will expose, uncover, unveil and reveal the sneaky little falsehoods that can derail even well intentioned souls. And all the crying about having the right to think differently is also a bunch of tommyrot. Think as differently as you like, just keep your compass calibrated and expect me to point out when you’ve failed to do so. If you don’t like that, there’s always truthbook. I’ll never go there, I promise. I only go there to read and to keep the Pepto-Bismol company in business.
Based on the narration above, and how it has been presented, would it not seem that in its presentation, and wording indicate the writer is attempting to “uplift” others to their own way of thinking? Does, not having the ability to “think differently”, also apply to having “free will”, bestowed upon us by Our Father, which makes us all different personalities, one from another? Therefore, those who use this “free will” against another way of thinking, only acknowledge their own view of themselves, like looking in a mirror and seeing an opposite reflection of themselves, where it would seem that they will never really know their-self, thereby really never being able to know others? Could one then assume, that those who bully others, because they appear to be or think differently, from the bullies own point of view, to be a reflection of their own different thinking, or own inabilities as seen in others?
YOU ARE THE UPLIFT!
All those who want to play ball that is, instead of sitting the bench with the Major League Rule Book in their face.
It looks real funny to be in the dugout with the team uniform on, reading the fine print of the rules of the game like a lawyer, over and over again, instead of playing in the game of the ages.
Try not to cut off your nose to spite your face Bonita while obsessing on the percieved poppycock of others. Weren’t you thanking God for not being perfect?
“Be you perfect, even as I am perfect”
VanAmadon wrote: YOU ARE THE UPLIFT!That sounds eerily like the Lucifer Manifesto to me. The “Van/nodifer Manifesto” appears to advocate personal liberty and unbridled self-determination with no mention at all of the Father or his Son. That stinks. No spiritual fragrance there.
There is no uplift without spirit partnership. The Spirit does the lifting, the individual agrees to be a part of the experience. Van/nod consistently omits any mention of Spirit. He only mentions “you” and “us”, meaning mortals. Therefore, his Manifesto appears to be about humans trying to uplift the world all on their own, that’s poppycock. We know that because so many have already tried that and made a mess.
I think redefining Van/nod’s declaration to say, “When we co-create with the Creator we participate in the Creator’s work of uplifting. In that way are partners in uplifting.”
Any uplift you do on your own VAN is called humanism or the kingdom of good. When we work with the Spirit of Truth and learn to do God’s will with his help, we are participating in the kingdom of God, which is uplifting to all.
AND SCREAMING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN DOESN’T MAKE IT ANY TRUER.
And personal attacks are not uplifting, Van/nod. Which kinda proves my point, doesn’t it?
“Many times, when you have done evil, you have thought to charge up your acts to the influence of the evil one when in reality you have but been led astray by your own natural tendencies.”
Bonita,
Let me help you, did you forget to compare me to Donald Trump?
Van/nod, I cannot believe that you are as dense as you seem. Surely you understand the position I am attempting to present. Your assertion of being the “uplift”, needs qualification. The premise you present is only partially true. Surely you’ve read the quote which tells us that partial knowledge is potentially evil. Your claim of being the “uplift” should not be taught to others in its incomplete state since it can lead others to make mistakes similar to the ones Lucifer made. Lucifer believed that God is not necessary for everything to be wonderful, that equality of mind and the brotherhood of intelligence is all that’s necessary for everything to be on the up and up. And without qualification, your assertion that you are the “uplift” does the same thing.
The big problem is that believing that you are the “uplift” completely omits the concept of service in the form of willingness to do God’s will by an act of one’s own will. It’s a natural consequence that human logic would consider that mortal will alone is sufficient to do the uplifting. Surely you see that wide open loop hole in your statement! You must be able to see that. So, what is wrong with amending your statement to include something about partnership with God? Leaving God out of “uplift” leaves it a little flat, don’t you think? Surely you are a reasonable enough individual to accept the truth in that.
Spiritual pride is extremely dangerous and can be quite insidious. These little openings of partial truth don’t seem like much to some. I’m sure there are those out there who think I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill, but we all know how these things go if not corrected. All sorts of crazy ideas start grow like weeds and threaten to crowd out the truth. The truth will still be there, it will survive, but why waste time and energy with weeds? Humans are weak in the thinking department and they love to fantasize and make myths. “You are the uplift” can come to mean all manner of ridiculous and distorted things given enough time. I recommend you read this next quote and think about my suggestion of qualifying your statement because I truly think if you don’t, you will be perverting the truth. And the fact that I’ve explained, in many different ways, and offered TUB quotes to support my explanations, means that you are on the verge of a premeditated perversion of truth. That is, unless you cannot recognize the truth, which I sincerely doubt. To deny God is the uplifter is a falsehood no matter how you look at it. I don’t see how your conscience wouldn’t go crazy with conflict if you repudiate that.
48:6.33 Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.
Here’s another way to think about it. Ask yourself, what causes the “uplift”. What is it about you that is the “uplift”. Is it your personality, your mere presence? I think most of us can agree that that’s not enough. There are a lot of personalities around who bring you down, seriously down. There must be something about the person that results in the “uplift”. I think TUB describes that as spiritual fragrance which is caused by spiritual fruit. How can there be spiritual fruit without spirit? They don’t just naturally grow without some connection to a source of spirit.
So, how are spiritual fruit produced? Can they be produced by the sheer force of mortal will? No, of course not. (Although Lucifer would have you think so.) You can try all day and all night from now until eternity to produce spiritual fruit and all you’ll get is social fruit. Now, there are some who would tell you that social fruits are uplifting. I guess it depends on how you define “uplift”. Lift what up and lift it to where? This is where human psychobabbling, self-help gurus come in to claim their ability to “uplift”, but all they uplift is your emotions and their wallets. This is not the kind of “uplift” we’re really talking about. We’re talking about spiritual “uplift”, right?
Spiritual fruit can only be produced by being connected to the spiritual vine, and the spiritual vine is the Spirit of Truth. No spiritual connection, no spiritual “uplift”. Period. It’s a partnership where we allow the vital spirit juices to flow through us and bring fragrant spiritual fruit to actual life in the experiential world of time and space. To say we are the “uplift” is the same as saying that “we are the fruit”, which is poppycock. We are merely a branch on the vine. The fruit is God’s fruit, the “uplift” is God’s.
So Van/nod, maybe you can amend your statement to say “You are the branches of God’s uplifting vine.”??
182:1.22 I am the true vine; you are the branches.
194:3.1 The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. When man yields the “fruits of the spirit” in his life, he is simply showing forth the traits which the Master manifested in his own earthly life. When Jesus was on earth, he lived his life as one personality–Jesus of Nazareth. As the indwelling spirit of the “new teacher,” the Master has, since Pentecost, been able to live his life anew in the experience of every truth-taught believer.
180:2.1 Then Jesus stood up again and continued teaching his apostles: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. I am the vine, and you are the branches. And the Father requires of me only that you shall bear much fruit. The vine is pruned only to increase the fruitfulness of its branches. Every branch coming out of me which bears no fruit, the Father will take away. Every branch which bears fruit, the Father will cleanse that it may bear more fruit. Already are you clean through the word I have spoken, but you must continue to be clean. You must abide in me, and I in you; the branch will die if it is separated from the vine. As the branch cannot bear fruit except it abides in the vine, so neither can you yield the fruits of loving service except you abide in me. Remember: I am the real vine, and you are the living branches. He who lives in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit of the spirit and experience the supreme joy of yielding this spiritual harvest. If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition. Herein is the Father glorified: that the vine has many living branches, and that every branch bears much fruit. And when the world sees these fruit-bearing branches–my friends who love one another, even as I have loved them–all men will know that you are truly my disciples.
102.7.4 True, many apparently religious traits can grow out of nonreligious roots. Man can, intellectually, deny God and yet be morally good, loyal, filial, honest, and even idealistic. Man may graft many purely humanistic branches onto his basic spiritual nature and thus apparently prove his contentions in behalf of a godless religion, but such an experience is devoid of survival values, God-knowingness and God-ascension. In such a mortal experience only social fruits are forthcoming, not spiritual. The graft determines the nature of the fruit, notwithstanding that the living sustenance is drawn from the roots of original divine endowment of both mind and spirit.
So Van/nod, maybe you can amend your statement to say “You are the branches of God’s uplifting vine.”??
No Bonita, the Uplift is you when after you thank God for allowing you to be imperfect, you stop worrying about the fine print in the rule book and get off the bench and decide that this is the day, with God’s uplifting help, you’re going to dedicate yourself to pitch a perfect game.
It’s been done before you know, but not without a sense of humor.
VanAmadon wrote: . . . with God’s uplifting helpAHA!!!!! You finally said it! “God’s uplifting”. Thank you. Now that’s more like it. Way to go!
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