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now don’t that sound like this could be the basis of the agondonter challenge (or should I say mandate) that is built into the master plan coming from the master manipulator, the master mind, the third person himself??
(131:4.6) The Great Controller is the generator of all things—all evolves from him. And this is the sum of duty: Let no man do to another what would be repugnant to himself; cherish no malice, smite not him who smites you, conquer anger with mercy, and vanquish hate by benevolence. And all this we should do because God is a kind friend and a gracious father who remits all our earthly offenses.
There is this interesting quote from paper 9.1.8 the last sentence: the universe of your origin is being forged out between the anvil of justice and the hammer of suffering; but those who wield the hammer are the children of mercy, the spirit offspring of the Infinite Spirit. now don’t that sound like this could be the basis of the agondonter challenge (or should I say mandate) that is built into the master plan coming from the master manipulator, the master mind, the third person himself??
I’ve always interpreted the quotes about the anvil and hammer to be about evolution; material, mindal, and spiritual. Evolution is essentially God’s creativity in time (105:6.5). We are being molded, but with mercy. True mercy is something that comes from fatherly love, an affectionate guiding hand on that hammer. The anvil is our worldly tribulations which impel us to want to cooperate . . . or not . . .
Oh . . . forgot. Here are the other anvil and hammer quotes:
23:2.12 The confusion and turmoil of Urantia do not signify that the Paradise Rulers lack either interest or ability to manage affairs differently. The Creators are possessed of full power to make Urantia a veritable paradise, but such an Eden would not contribute to the development of those strong, noble, and experienced characters which the Gods are so surely forging out on your world between the anvils of necessity and the hammers of anguish. Your anxieties and sorrows, your trials and disappointments, are just as much a part of the divine plan on your sphere as are the exquisite perfection and infinite adaptation of all things to their supreme purpose on the worlds of the central and perfect universe.
66:5.13 6. The college of revealed religion. This body was slow in functioning. Urantia civilization was literally forged out between the anvil of necessity and the hammers of fear. But this group had made considerable progress in their attempt to substitute Creator fear for creature fear (ghost worship) before their labors were interrupted by the later confusion attendant upon the secession upheaval. The head of this council was Hap.
The anvil is our worldly tribulations which impel us to want to cooperate . . . or not . . .
Yes, because not cooperating is likely to make a ninny hammer out of you.
God is kind; but he’s never nice.
Really?! Depends on your definition of both I guess…but my dictionaries describe and define both as shared traits and synonomous. The Paper on the Nature of God might be recommended. Everything that is love or is derived from love originates with God. I find God and all his creatures “nice” to me. Perhaps you might elaborate on this latest platitude of contradiction? = )
God is kind; but he’s never nice.
Really?! Depends on your definition of both I guess…but my dictionaries describe and define both as shared traits and synonomous. The Paper on the Nature of God might be recommended. Everything that is love or is derived from love originates with God. I find God and all his creatures “nice” to me. Perhaps you might elaborate on this latest platitude of contradiction? = )
One of the tenets of being nice is to be agreeable. God is not agreeable with us. We’re learning how to agree with him.
A word search in the Urantia Book for nice is most interesting. When you’re done with that, you’ll be even more interested in what results when you do the same for the Bible.
(52:2.11) This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.
Isn’t this false sentiment the result of incorrectly “being nice” which perpetuates planetary agony?
I think being nice is like gracefulness. You can cultivate gracefulness, but not graciousness. Graciousness can only emanate from a love saturated soul. Nice can be faked, but grace cannot be faked. Either you have it or you don’t . . . . but in truth, grace is a gift; it can’t be manufactured like niceness. It’s a gift. They don’t call it the grace of God for nothing . . . and it’s inextricably linked to faith, another gift.
171:7.1 Jesus spread good cheer everywhere he went. He was full of grace and truth. His associates never ceased to wonder at the gracious words that proceeded out of his mouth. You can cultivate gracefulness, but graciousness is the aroma of friendliness which emanates from a love-saturated soul.
171:7.2 Goodness always compels respect, but when it is devoid of grace, it often repels affection. Goodness is universally attractive only when it is gracious. Goodness is effective only when it is attractive.
(52:2.11) This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.
Isn’t this false sentiment the result of incorrectly “being nice” which perpetuates planetary agony?
Planetary agony? False sympathy is a form of being naïve, immature, and lacking in wisdom. Has nothing to do with “nice”. Was Jesus “nice”? He reflects the Father, yes? You present a pretty narrow definition of the term which God does originate and demonstrate IMO.
Oh . . . forgot. Here are the other anvil and hammer quotes:
23:2.12 The confusion and turmoil of Urantia do not signify that the Paradise Rulers lack either interest or ability to manage affairs differently. The Creators are possessed of full power to make Urantia a veritable paradise, but such an Eden would not contribute to the development of those strong, noble, and experienced characters which the Gods are so surely forging out on your world between the anvils of necessity and the hammers of anguish. Your anxieties and sorrows, your trials and disappointments, are just as much a part of the divine plan on your sphere as are the exquisite perfection and infinite adaptation of all things to their supreme purpose on the worlds of the central and perfect universe. 66:5.13 6. The college of revealed religion. This body was slow in functioning. Urantia civilization was literally forged out between the anvil of necessity and the hammers of fear. But this group had made considerable progress in their attempt to substitute Creator fear for creature fear (ghost worship) before their labors were interrupted by the later confusion attendant upon the secession upheaval. The head of this council was Hap.
well I agree the hammer anvil concept is not necessarily an Agondonter challenge – one reason may be that the time lines associated with the quotes seems to predate the events that necessitated believing without seeing etc, no??
if so then if we did have visible deity to interact with, these hammer anvil quotes give little hope that mortal experience would not be much different or less challenging or painful.
Gene wrote: if so then if we did have visible deity to interact with, these hammer anvil quotes give little hope that mortal experience would be much different or less challenging or painful.Yeah, I think this life in the flesh has to be challenging in order to compel the naturally lazy and selfish animal in us to evolve. I think we’ve had many discussions on the purpose of the vicissitudes of life on this forum. (Lots to talk about there but it might be off topic.) Jesus clearly said no one is immune from conflict unless they live entirely on the animal level or entirely on a high spiritual level. We’re moving from animal being to spiritual being and will always experience some level of conflict as we evolve. It’s natural, I think.
159:3.7 Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.
I think that if Adam and Eve had given us the full DNA allotment we were due, we might have better skills for dealing with the anvil and the hammer stuff. And if there were materially visible teachers walking the earth to help guide our education, we’d have less trouble with it all. But yes, it would still be there. However, there is good news; we’re told those born of the spirit have no serious conflict caused by the anvil and the hammer.
34:7.7 Those God-knowing men and women who have been born of the Spirit experience no more conflict with their mortal natures than do the inhabitants of the most normal of worlds, planets which have never been tainted with sin nor touched by rebellion. Faith sons work on intellectual levels and live on spiritual planes far above the conflicts produced by unrestrained or unnatural physical desires. The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons.
I honestly can’t say the anvil and hammer thing bothers me that much. I know it gets a lot of people’s knickers in a knot and fuels the arguments of the atheists and agnostics. But it’s really just a load of brouhaha over nothing in my opinion.
Planetary agony? False sympathy is a form of being naïve, immature, and lacking in wisdom. Has nothing to do with “nice”. Was Jesus “nice”? He reflects the Father, yes? You present a pretty narrow definition of the term which God does originate and demonstrate IMO.
Was Jesus nice? Good question. I don’t think he was ever sarcastically nice, or pseudo-nice, or pretentiously nice, like some people. I think he was genuinely nice in that he was always amicable, pleasant, friendly, engaging, affable, compassionate, good-natured, courteous, and likable. All those adjectives are thesaurus synonyms for nice. Yeah . . . Jesus was definitely nice.
Planetary agony has many sources, but genuine niceness is not one of them.
I think he was genuinely nice in that he was always amicable, pleasant, friendly, engaging, affable, compassionate, good-natured, courteous, and likable. All those adjectives are thesaurus synonyms for nice.
You forgot agreeable. Jesus was never agreeably nice.
(158:7.4) Peter spoke thus because he loved Jesus; but the Master’s human nature recognized in these words of well-meant affection the subtle suggestion of temptation that he change his policy of pursuing to the end his earth bestowal in accordance with the will of his Paradise Father. And it was because he detected the danger of permitting the suggestions of even his affectionate and loyal friends to dissuade him, that he turned upon Peter and the other apostles, saying: “Get you behind me. You savor of the spirit of the adversary, the tempter. When you talk in this manner, you are not on my side but rather on the side of our enemy. In this way do you make your love for me a stumbling block to my doing the Father’s will. Mind not the ways of men but rather the will of God.“
Not doing the Father’s will adds to the agony in the world. The Urantia Book outlines some of the particulars and specifics regarding the Father’s will. Wouldn’t you agree?
Like what to do to safeguard civilization from fostering, protecting, and perpetuating
“hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks”
It seems logical to address this issue, especially when the revelation emphasizes how important it is. The fact that we’re a little late as a planet in getting it done, thanks to our rebellious and degenerate CalaGas, only puts it on the planetary priority list in a high place, don’t you think?
To me it’s interesting, that even in the UB community, there seems to be unwillingness to recognize that, at least among some of those in the community who express themselves on these types of forums. Some have responded to me, when I’ve brought it up, that I’m trying to make a “racial” or “social class” issue out of it. No, it’s just a matter of doing what the revelation clearly indicates is the Father’s will for our planet.
Whether it’s nice or not.
Jesus certainly found agreeableness to be something worth achieving. He explained to Anaxand that he could be the salt that might make his disagreeable brother more agreeable. Clearly he was for being agreeable. I don’t see a real downside to being agreeable as I understand the meaning of the word. I’d rather be agreeable than unpleasant, unlikable and unwilling.
130:2.4 One of the young men who worked with Jesus one day on the steering paddle became much interested in the words which he dropped from hour to hour as they toiled in the shipyard. When Jesus intimated that the Father in heaven was interested in the welfare of his children on earth, this young Greek, Anaxand, said: “If the Gods are interested in me, then why do they not remove the cruel and unjust foreman of this workshop?” He was startled when Jesus replied, “Since you know the ways of kindness and value justice, perhaps the Gods have brought this erring man near that you may lead him into this better way. Maybe you are the salt which is to make this brother more agreeable to all other men; that is, if you have not lost your savor. As it is, this man is your master in that his evil ways unfavorably influence you. Why not assert your mastery of evil by virtue of the power of goodness and thus become the master of all relations between the two of you? I predict that the good in you could overcome the evil in him if you gave it a fair and living chance. There is no adventure in the course of mortal existence more enthralling than to enjoy the exhilaration of becoming the material life partner with spiritual energy and divine truth in one of their triumphant struggles with error and evil. It is a marvelous and transforming experience to become the living channel of spiritual light to the mortal who sits in spiritual darkness. If you are more blessed with truth than is this man, his need should challenge you. Surely you are not the coward who could stand by on the seashore and watch a fellow man who could not swim perish! How much more of value is this man’s soul floundering in darkness compared to his body drowning in water!”
agreeable-adjective
1 an agreeable atmosphere of rural tranquility: pleasant, pleasing, enjoyable, pleasurable, nice, to one’s liking, appealing, charming, delightful. ANTONYMS unpleasant.
2 an agreeable fellow: likable, charming, amiable, affable, pleasant, nice, friendly, good-natured, sociable, genial, congenial, simpatico. ANTONYMS unlikable.
3 we should get together for a talk, if you’re agreeable: willing, amenable, in accord/agreement, compliant, consenting. ANTONYMS unwilling.
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