Agondonters

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  • #24883
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    Another thing I’ve been thinking about is how and when the idea of black or white, good or bad and nothing in between started.

    103:1.5[Part III]
    That religionists have believed so much that was false does not invalidate religion because religion is founded on the recognition of values and is validated by the faith of personal religious experience. Religion, then, is based on experience and religious thought; theology, the philosophy of religion, is an honest attempt to interpret that experience. Such interpretative beliefs may be right or wrong, or a mixture of truth and error.
    #24884
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

      . . . . Such interpretative beliefs may be right or wrong, or a mixture of truth and error. (103:1.5)

    UH OH!!! A mixture huh?  Whoa.  So people believe in black, white and gray . . . the whole gamut.  How’s about that? I wonder why that is?  Don’t you think it’s because of the evolution of thought?  I don’t think jumping from black to white is always a one-step process.  Isn’t growth slow and unconscious?  I think we have to train our minds to think optimistically, to always look for truth, beauty and goodness and coordinate it in love.  Jesus was certainly optimistic.  I think TUB actually calls it “divine optimism”!  And I think divine optimism includes wisdom (that highest adjutant thing).

    I was thinking too of how the Adjuster works in the mind.  Doesn’t he consider both the egoistic needs of the individual and the altruistic motive, putting a preference on the altruistic option?  Doesn’t the Adjuster gently urge us toward that goal?  He doesn’t demand a black or white decision, but a decision that favors his altruistic will, a slight nudge towards a more loving nature. Yeah, it’s all good, getting gooder all the time.

    103:2.7   Moral choosing is usually accompanied by more or less moral conflict. And this very first conflict in the child mind is between the urges of egoism and the impulses of altruism. The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

    #24885
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    So people believe in black, white and gray . . . the whole gamut.

    . . . due perhaps “. . . owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.”

    2:7.3   Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience. While the laws and decrees, the thoughts and attitudes, of the First Great Source and Center are eternally, infinitely, and universally true; at the same time, their application to, and adjustment for, every universe, system, world, and created intelligence, are in accordance with the plans and technique of the Creator Sons as they function in their respective universes, as well as in harmony with the local plans and procedures of the Infinite Spirit and of all other associated celestial personalities.

    A pint cannot hold a quart.

    #24886
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Today I had the time to reply (many replies) to this topic.  Those of you who know me know this is unusual.  :-)

    I was thinking too of how the Adjuster works in the mind.

    Here is another way to see how the Adjuster works:

    111:1.9 [Part III]
    Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.
    #24887
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I was thinking too of how the Adjuster works in the mind. Doesn’t he consider both the egoistic needs of the individual and the altruistic motive, putting a preference on the altruistic option? Doesn’t the Adjuster gently urge us toward that goal?

    103:2.7 Moral choosing is usually accompanied by more or less moral conflict. And this very first conflict in the child mind is between the urges of egoism and the impulses of altruism. The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

    I find some of the narration above slightly confusing in that some of the words used implies something different and might need additional explanation?  Where if we can agree that “egoistic” can be defined as: “being centered in or preoccupied with oneself and the gratification of one’s own desires; self-centered (opposed to altruistic )”, then the use of the word “needs” as opposed to “motive” as presented in the UB quote, and its reverse usage implication to “altruistic”, might imply confusion of understanding?

    A human may have an egoistic need to be “preoccupied with oneself” and desire self gratification, which might not be considered as being selfish because everyone should have some form of comfort in their environment, but when these “egoistic needs” dominate the individual whereby sharing with others is limited to specific conditions based on a loyalty to these needs over an altruistic (“unselfishly concerned for or devoted to the welfare of others”) option, there should be little behind the motives.  The “egoistic motive” has value when it does not dominate over the altruistic needs, as might be considered as the basic needs of others less fortunate, whereby one is willing to share the benefits of the egoistic need with others.  Then an “altruistic impulse” might motivate the equalization egoism with altruism?

    (1602.7) 142:6.8 Nicodemus was thoroughly sincere. He was deeply impressed but went away bewildered. Nicodemus was accomplished in self-development, in self-restraint, and even in high moral qualities. He was refined, egoistic, and altruistic; but he did not know how to submit his will to the will of the divine Father as a little child is willing to submit to the guidance and leading of a wise and loving earthly father, thereby becoming in reality a son of God, a progressive heir of the eternal kingdom.

    (1602.6) 142:6.7 And Nicodemus said: “But how can I begin to lay hold upon this spirit which is to remake me in preparation for entering into the kingdom?” Jesus answered: “Already does the spirit of the Father in heaven indwell you. If you would be led by this spirit from above, very soon would you begin to see with the eyes of the spirit, and then by the wholehearted choice of spirit guidance would you be born of the spirit since your only purpose in living would be to do the will of your Father who is in heaven. And so finding yourself born of the spirit and happily in the kingdom of God, you would begin to bear in your daily life the abundant fruits of the spirit.”

    #24888
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Mara wrote: . . . due perhaps “. . . owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.”

    Yessiree!  Exactly.  We’re incomplete, that means we exist somewhere on the grayscale of evil.   And it says that knowledge (or understanding) is not complete either . . . so that must mean we’re not supposed to give it up, but complete it because partial understanding is evil.

    I guess that means what Enno said is not true: “The cost is a great price, which, a man sells all that he has, to posses. Which includes all the  “understanding” he has too.”   

    Looks like we don’t have to sell our understanding either!  Wonderful.  It’s all good.

    130:4.11 Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. The qualities of imperfection or facts of misadaptation are disclosed on the material level by critical observation and by scientific analysis; on the moral level, by human experience. The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection. Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate.

    #24889
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    (378.4) 34:4.10 The seven adjutant mind-spirits are the creation of the Divine Minister of a local universe. These mind-spirits are similar in character but diverse in power, and all partake alike of the nature of the Universe Spirit, although they are hardly regarded as personalities apart from their Mother Creator. The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition — of quick perception.

    (378.5) 34:4.11 These are the “seven spirits of God,” [. . .]

    (402.3) 36:5.6 1. The spirit of intuition — quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.

    (402.4) 36:5.7 2. The spirit of understanding — the impulse of co-ordination, the spontaneous and apparently automatic association of ideas. This is the gift of the co-ordination of acquired knowledge, the phenomenon of quick reasoning, rapid judgment, and prompt decision.

    (402.5) 36:5.8 3. The spirit of courage — the fidelity endowment — in personal beings, the basis of character acquirement and the intellectual root of moral stamina and spiritual bravery. When enlightened by facts and inspired by truth, this becomes the secret of the urge of evolutionary ascension by the channels of intelligent and conscientious self-direction.

    (402.6) 36:5.9 4. The spirit of knowledge — the curiosity-mother of adventure and discovery, the scientific spirit; the guide and faithful associate of the spirits of courage and counsel; the urge to direct the endowments of courage into useful and progressive paths of growth.

    (402.7) 36:5.10 5. The spirit of counsel — the social urge, the endowment of species co-operation; the ability of will creatures to harmonize with their fellows; the origin of the gregarious instinct among the more lowly creatures.

    (402.8) 36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship — the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

    (402.9) 36:5.12 7. The spirit of wisdom — the inherent tendency of all moral creatures towards orderly and progressive evolutionary advancement. This is the highest of the adjutants, the spirit co-ordinator and articulator of the work of all the others. This spirit is the secret of that inborn urge of mind creatures which initiates and maintains the practical and effective program of the ascending scale of existence; that gift of living things which accounts for their inexplicable ability to survive and, in survival, to utilize the co-ordination of all their past experience and present opportunities for the acquisition of all of everything that all of the other six mental ministers can mobilize in the mind of the organism concerned. Wisdom is the acme of intellectual performance. Wisdom is the goal of a purely mental and moral existence.

    (403.1) 36:5.13 The adjutant mind-spirits experientially grow, but they never become personal. They evolve in function, and the function of the first five in the animal orders is to a certain extent essential to the function of all seven as human intellect. This animal relationship makes the adjutants more practically effective as human mind; hence animals are to a certain extent indispensable to man’s intellectual as well as to his physical evolution.

     

    #24890
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    Looks like we don’t have to sell our understanding . . . .

    That’s right.  We are building our understanding.  Proverbs 4:

    7 The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom;
    And with all your acquiring, get understanding.

     

    #24891
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    “The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition — of quick perception.”  (378.4) 34:4.10

    These are adjutant mind-spirits and mind on Urantia is a compromise:

    9:5.6 [Part I]
    Mind, on Urantia, is a compromise between the essence of thought perfection and the evolving mentality of your immature human nature. The plan for your intellectual evolution is, indeed, one of sublime perfection, but you are far short of that divine goal as you function in the tabernacles of the flesh. Mind is truly of divine origin, and it does have a divine destiny, but your mortal minds are not yet of divine dignity.

     

    #24892
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Mara wrote: That’s right. We are building our understanding. Proverbs 4:7 The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.

    Thanks for that Mara.  Here’s the companion quote in TUB:

    P1481:5, 133:9.3 It was at Ur that Ganid had a long talk with Jesus regarding the difference between knowledge, wisdom, and truth. And he was greatly charmed with the saying of the Hebrew wise man: “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. With all your quest for knowledge, get understanding. Exalt wisdom and she will promote you. She will bring you to honor if you will but embrace her.”

    I think understanding is more than just knowledge.  It’s on the road to wisdom and we know wisdom opens that gateway to the soul where truth resides.

    #24893
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    111:1.9  “Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain.”

    111:1.4   Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.
    #24894
    Van Amadon
    Van Amadon
    Participant

    But what will need to happen when the understanding becomes the black and white truth that the interpretive belief of what may be right or wrong, a mixture of truth and error, is actually the combining of good and evil that isn’t all good?

     

    #24895
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    All truth this side of Paradise is relative, which means it can’t be black or white.  Truth is a living flexible reality, always changing.

    79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life.

    2:7.2 Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.

     

    #24896
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    But what will need to happen when the understanding becomes the black and white truth that the interpretive belief of what may be right or wrong, a mixture of truth and error, is actually the combining of good and evil that isn’t all good?

    So, what you seem to be saying, is that one cannot exist without the other, and at the same time there cannot be all-good nor all-evil, because one cannot define one without the other.  The so called gray area between white and black, is that which constitutes life.  If our Father is absolute light, and we cannot exist in relation to this light, because it has been mentioned that we would die or not be able to exist, the same can be assumed about absolute darkness or the absence of light.  Each one by them self cannot exist, so there must be a mother and father, but then without an egg, well that seems to be the gray area, or then we go back to the chicken and the egg analogy, where the only logical answer to that is the pregnant chicken came first.

    #24897
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    All truth this side of Paradise is relative, which means it can’t be black or white.  Truth is a living flexible reality, always changing.

    Thank you.  The reasonable understanding that truth is relative and expanding, that it always lives in the present, and that each generation of men and women – each human life – achieves a new expression of it, reminds me of the Supreme Being.

    56:6.3[Part II]
    The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.
    Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded.  (48:7.5)
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