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Jesus decision to do nothing or be neutral was still a decision that had impact or consequences.
can I interpret “transference of dominance” to mean wisdom and don’t you think that any decision other than gut reaction, or instinctual response requires it?
Gene wrote: . . . can I interpret “transference of dominance” to mean wisdomWisdom is only the first step to the transference of dominance. The search for wisdom merely opens the gateway to the soul (spiritual insight). Once you get there you still have to discover, recognize, interpret and choose.Recall this quote:16:6.6 1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.
16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.
16:6.8 3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.
Wisdom is part of duty, philosophical reasoning, the ability to make moral judgments. Transfer of dominance requires all three levels of reality recognition and discrimination.103:9.10 When reason once recognizes right and wrong, it exhibits wisdom; when wisdom chooses between right and wrong, truth and error, it demonstrates spirit leading. And thus are the functions of mind, soul, and spirit ever closely united and functionally interassociated. Reason deals with factual knowledge; wisdom, with philosophy and revelation; faith, with living spiritual experience. Through truth man attains beauty and by spiritual love ascends to goodness.
Gene wrote: . . . don’t you think that any decision other than gut reaction, or instinctual response requires it?Ideally yes, but sadly there are so few cosmic thinkers, as TUB tells us. Wisdom, I think, is earned. Right?132:3.5 But truth can never become man’s possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man’s thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.
I’m not sure if the discussion of wisdom is related to the agondonter phenomenon or not. I guess if you consider the difference between faith and wisdom, or better, how they are interrelated, then perhaps it is. Bradley’s the final arbiter.101:6.3 Moral will embraces decisions based on reasoned knowledge, augmented by wisdom, and sanctioned by religious faith. Such choices are acts of moral nature and evidence the existence of moral personality, the forerunner of morontia personality and eventually of true spirit status.
101:6.8 The teachings of Jesus constituted the first Urantian religion which so fully embraced a harmonious co-ordination of knowledge, wisdom, faith, truth, and love as completely and simultaneously to provide temporal tranquillity, intellectual certainty, moral enlightenment, philosophic stability, ethical sensitivity, God-consciousness, and the positive assurance of personal survival.
110:3.7 Choosing to respond to divine leading; sincerely basing the human life on the highest consciousness of truth, beauty, and goodness, and then co-ordinating these qualities of divinity through wisdom, worship, faith, and love
What do you think is happening when we believe without seeing? A decision? No wisdom involved? No choosing?
The various ministries reach down while we reach up is a process I recall reading about but reaching up is a choice/decision.
On the other hand, response to the lower Adjutants I do not believe requires decision making, worship and wisdom seem to be different in that respect.
i think I’m getting off track
Gene wrote: What do you think is happening when we believe without seeing? A decision? No wisdom involved? No choosing?Well sure it’s a decision, but a decision without concrete evidence to influence it. Believing without seeing is a decision based upon mystery.
Think about it . . . we accept the so-called laws of science because there is data we can use our senses to validate. We know that what goes up must come down unless it goes so far up that it enters into orbit. Physical gravity is real to us because we can perceive it with our physical senses. That’s the level of discrimination called causation in the previous quote.
We accept the reality of certain moral decisions because we can see their effects on the group. There is something to measure success by. When you lock up the guy who goes around in his birthday suit harassing little children, the group benefits, it’s verifiable. When you stop the guy who gets his jollies shooting up the place, the group benefits. All can agree it’s a good thing. Those decisions take some thought, they require a sense of right and wrong, or wisdom, and the results are generally verifiable. That’s the level of discrimination called duty in the previous quote.
Then you have those unusual occurrences that everyone agrees are unexplainable. We all recognize when someone does something so unselfish and generous that it’s way out of the “norm”. It’s something very special. We don’t know where that sort of thing comes from, but we know it is something remarkable. Usually we put halos on these people, make monuments to them and even worship them. Whatever it is that they have, whatever convinces them to do extraordinary things, the causative agent can’t be seen or verified with human senses. There’s mystery involved, or it’s magic; but accepting the mystery and attributing value to it without reproducible verification takes an act of faith. That’s the level of discrimination called worship in the previous quote.
If we had 8 foot tall people with violet rays of light shooting out of their heads, who eat a magic tree in order to keep living age after age, telling us that the mystery is no mystery at all but something that really exists, then we wouldn’t have to rely so heavily on faith-trust. Yes, we would still need it, but we’d have some verifiable evidence that it’s real, evidence that we can see, touch and hear, which would make the decision infinitely easier, I would think.
On the other hand, response to the lower Adjutants I do not believe requires decision making, worship and wisdom seem to be different in that respect.
Great topic. Maybe another thread? It’s up to Bradley.
I think the Adjutants are important elements to the Agondonter conversation….which I am enjoying very much….however, temporal issues require attention right now. Thanks Bonita for your responses to my last post on the material and spiritual dual natures. My post lacked clarity and I appreciate you view on the matter….and I know that we must apply both natures and will always value our material origins even when the transfer of the seat of our identity becomes more fully spiritized. Sometimes uncertainty becomes chaos for us to respond to with skill and wisdom.
Thanks everyone! = )
Thanks Bradley. I hope your temporal issues will be met with decisions born of the spirit, which are decisions based upon wisdom and infused with Adjuster guidance. And yeah, I agree that uncertainty and chaos are incentives for wisdom which opens the gate to higher potentials, potentials which bring stability. After all, that is what we are in search of right? . . . harmony, stability, coordination, integration and identification with universe ideals.
155.5.11 The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress. The religion of the mind — the theology of authority — requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers. Tradition is a safe refuge and an easy for those fearful and halfhearted souls who instinctively shun the spirit struggles and mental uncertainties associated with those faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul.
On the other hand, response to the lower Adjutants I do not believe requires decision making, worship and wisdom seem to be different in that respect.
All the adjutants stimulate decision making and each has their effect. Decisions are made within the mind and mind ministry has an active role in all of them unless thwarted. Only the personality can pick and choose the decisions of mind it thinks worthwhile. But mind ministry itself is always prodding, urging and driving the thought processes toward decisions which further the evolution of the whole. That’s one of the reasons I think TUB is a breakthrough. Who ever thought mind would be a ministry, something overseen by a greater power so loving and beautiful that it defies understanding? Try explaining that to the average Joe. Trust me, all you get is a blank stare, deer in headlights. It’s a brand new idea in this world.
Have you ever wondered why Andon’sdecision to run away from his sisters, and his cousins and his aunts (Gilbert & Sullivan, sorry) was such a big deal? It doesn’t seem like enough of a decision to blast him into the seventh circle and bona fide humanhood to me, but alas it was. Why was it so great? It wasn’t very selfless. Was it even a moral decision? It actually always seemed a little bit selfish to me, really. Why did that decision matter more than any other decision? Well . . . I’m thinking partly because they were simians. You can’t expect rocket science or messiahship from a simian. It seems to me that any decision that moves the mind and person toward universe goals can suffice given the circumstances.
Of course, we’re much further along on the evolutionary trail, so the decisions we make probably have a higher bar. But just the same, we’re really just a little further along than a simian, so I’m sure simple decisions that don’t seem all that supernatural in power, may be the ones that really matter in the end.
Oh . . . oops . . . wait a minute. I think I’ve wandered off topic. Hmm, let me think. So what were we talking about again? Oh yeah, the difference between worship/wisdom decisions and other adjutant decisions. I guess what I’m trying to say is that each adjutant has it’s duty to encourage certain types of decisions. So in a way, they’re all different. Worship and wisdom decisions are superanimal decisions. They separate us from the simians and provide the moral soil for further growth. Mind ministry doesn’t stop there though. It always overlaps and always draws, with mind gravity, toward the source. Yaddayaddayadda. Okay, now your turn.
Yaddayaddayadda. Okay, now your turn.
Ok, let me add to the discussion then.
So what I see here is, being thoroughly immersed in fiddling with the details of Adjutants, decisions and wisdom, all the while sitting on the seats of your identities, Rome burns.
Ladies and gentlemen, is this what studying the Urantia Book is all about?
Ladies and gentlemen, is this what studying the Urantia Book is all about?
Stay on topic Enno. If you’d like to start another topic on what studying TUB means to you, please feel free to do so. Thanks in advance.
Let me be more direct Am/nod….please go away and stay away unless and until you have something to contribute. Your vile accusations against persons here is most unfortunate….and worse. Again, without any knowledge or clue, you claim those who study the Revelation are not fully engaged in the daily walk and immersed in life.
Far as I can tell, you’re the only one who resides on the seat of your identity. Please go to your dark corner and enjoy the view.
Still at the old shock schtick I see….and after all your promises. I guess that sheep clothing must not fit too well and chaffs you overmuch? Why be here? Why come here? If not to share the learning and learn the teachings?
Apologies to the community for such a distraction.
Apologies to the community for such a distraction.
No need for apologies Bradley. In fact, I wanted desperately to say to Enno that twice he made an attempt to derail this conversation. The reason for this last attempt seems to be that the conversation does not satisfy him, despite the fact that at least three of us are enjoying it. Isn’t that selfish? Isn’t that the kind of thing TUB readers try like heck to avoid doing?
“Only the personality can pick and choose the decisions of mind it thinks worthwhile”
now that’s a cool distinction
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