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Lovely section Bradly! Page 1,739 is one of my favorites. My book is all marked up there. (156:5.6)
Hi Family,
post #24720 Bradley
Apologies for its length but thought those who wish to might find a particular quote to address and share with us their own perspective of the struggle and the help received in that effort to have and to demonstrate faith.
“I wish to” and I found such a temporary respite among quotes you address. Be more accurate, I’ll said, it’s been a while I was looking for this quote: 156:5.5
“But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.”
You wrote your quotes just after this one and finish with 156:5.22 And many other things Jesus taught them before they made ready to depart from Tyre.
This last one “ring a bell” till I red 156:5.5
156:5.5 pinpoint addressing mental struggle, mental deviance whom TUB call “the temptations of the lesser and lower nature“.
Isn’t mental deviance synonym with perversion of mind ? If it isn’t, I’m sure it is the inclination to it.
196:0.10 To him prayer was … an avoidance of emotional tension, … an invigoration of higher inclinations, a consecration of impulse, a clarification of viewpoint, … a transcendental surrender of will, … a technique for the adjustment of difficulties, and the mighty mobilization of the combined soul powers to withstand all human tendencies toward selfishness, evil, and sin.
196:2.9 Jesus led men to feel … that the world was not fundamentally evil. … Jesus did not share Paul’s pessimistic view of humankind. The Master looked upon men as the sons of God and foresaw a magnificent and eternal future for those who chose survival. He was not a moral skeptic; he viewed man positively, not negatively. He saw most men as weak rather than wicked,more distraught than depraved. But no matter what their status, they were all God’s children and his brethren.I’d like to emphasize how much Bradley your exhaustive research work and participation qualify you with God the Supreme … a doer.
Thanks you,
Thank you Andre very much!
156:5.5 is very instructive indeed. To me it tells of the transformation of mind and soul when one is seeking the blessings of doing what’s right, true, good, and beautiful rather than trying to avoid pain or punishment. Jesus said to do right for rights sake and for the glorious fruits of the Spirit that attends such proper and functional motivation for living. One of the greatest of the gospel’s teachings is that if we can attune our motives and intentions and priorities in perspective and choosing, then all will be well….and it becomes so without any particular acts or duties or ceremonies or depravations or punishments. We are to purify our hearts, seek God’s will, and every way forward from there is a holy way ahead into grace and wisdom and the fruits.
156:5.13 (1739.8) God-knowing individuals are not discouraged by misfortune or downcast by disappointment. Believers are immune to the depression consequent upon purely material upheavals; spirit livers are not perturbed by the episodes of the material world. Candidates for eternal life are practitioners of an invigorating and constructive technique for meeting all of the vicissitudes and harassments of mortal living. Every day a true believer lives, he finds it easier to do the right thing.
I did a key word search for guilt, guilty, regret, remorse, and shame to understand their role in moving from primitive mind to Spiritized mind and discover how these feelings fit in our discussion of the primitive, child, and material minded. Very interesting issues.
Truly did Jesus bring a new message to the religious life! Fear and suspicion and domination are our first response to the spirit nature within our dual natures. Later does guilt, regret, and remorse rise up to the level of morality and consideration of how our choices affect others and the fairness of such choices becomes measured and causes these feelings. With the Son’s Spirit released upon a world, a far more positive result in the mind ministry becomes possible where the material turmoil and uncertainties can be faced with far more hope and confidence and the realization of the temporal nature of materialism and the eternal nature of the spirit life/soul.
Note the last sentence in the text above: “….finds it easier to do the right thing.” What is the right “thing”? I think it is anything and everything done by right motivation…even when there may still be a better or wiser way, still it is the right thing based solely upon why we chose something, not what the something chosen might be. In this way, God has determined that creation is best served by personal and unique expressions of proper motive rather than proper act or word….the actualization of potential that defies uniformity in choice and result brings vitality….and uncertainty.
We cannot overcome disappointment or face uncertainty or eliminate fear from our lives unless and until we fully embrace our role as child of God in a friendly universe of eternal adventure. Until then we still have so much circle work still ahead. Even then, there is so much to learn to become fused with Father’s Fragment….but once we embrace our sonship with gusto, we are invigorated and emboldened and the material vicissitudes loosen their material grip upon our reality….we become “triumphant” over the lesser nature!
Ill clip lip this from Andres post
“But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires.”
now isn’t this even slightly analogous to reaching for and using the higher Adjutants- wisdom and worship? Or am I off track on this??
the temptations of the lesser-lower is not necessarily temptation to do evil. Could it be those lower Adjutants that need management?
Could it be
thosethat lowerAdjutantslevel of consciousness of the Divine Minister that need management? GeneGene I replaced 2 words in your sentence and look what happens.
36:5.4 (402.1) The spirits of the seven universe adjutants do not function as personalities apart from the universe presence of the Divine Minister; they are in fact a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister
Same sentence with different words whom means the same.
Gene #24726
… the temptations of the lesser-lower is not necessarily temptation to do evil.
Gene “the temptations” you referred could be suitable address as the free will choice inherent to personality. Between potential good and potential evil.
The lesser-lower nature [human will] is intend to be exposed with this tension conforming to God’s plans.
Temptation to do evil is not necessarily to embrace the objectives God set up. The lesser-lower nature of men reach his Divine purpose when we choose potential good and reject potential evil.
The “temptations” faced by mortals would appear to me to be related to self serving, dominance over others, self importance, self indulgence, and allowing the physical or material body to determine motive, intention, priority, and choice.
I grew up being taught that all such temptations came from only two sources: humanity’s ‘sinful’ ‘nature’ and the devil.
Now we know (and many have known for a long time) that temptation is a function of our dual nature. I think one might claim that the spirit nature does as much tempting as the material nature does….we are ‘tempted’ to look inward and to listen to the small voice and to be generous and kind and to forgive….and to love one another.
Remember the old cartoons where an angel whispers in one ear and a devil whispers in the other and the mind in between them is torn by indecision? Not so inaccurate perhaps? But it is merely the adjutants trying to teach and lure the mind to the higher and more noble aspects of our inherent nature. Every time we allow the spirit nature to ‘decide’, we progress and every time we allow the material/self nature to decide, we regress. There is a momentum and mass that comes over time making it more of a struggle to move the other way. Bonita has posted a quote about this – the more materialistic OR spiritual we are, the less tension and confusion in our choices – while the more we are responsive to one nature or the other, the less confusion in mind we have. Got to be careful which ear is hearing the most and guiding us in our choices!
Reminds me of the old Native American tale of the two wolves:
One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all”
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed”.
Gene wrote: the temptations of the lesser-lower is not necessarily temptation to do evil.Exactly! The lower adjutants are normal evolutionary urges designed to propel, not only our physical bodies, but our human natures forward. The lower urges are not necessarily evil. They were put there with a purpose and they align with universe plans, which are not evil.
What is evil about quick perception; self-preservation; automatic association of ideas; quick reasoning; moral stamina; spiritual bravery; curiosity; urge for cooperation; gregarious instincts and the will to harmonize with others? Nothing . . . absolutely nothing. And if these lower adjutant impulses are guided by the two higher adjutants, it leads to the development of the religious instinct, the soul and eventually a divine nature which will override the lower nature . . . because it’s better, more fun and more fulfilling.
As long as people don’t inhibit these God-given urges provided by the Creative Spirit, then they will develop into faith-sons who survive. It’s not that hard really. The problem is, I think, that since the rebellion, people no longer trust mind spirit ministries; they try to micromanage them. Distrust is not a good thing. People on “normal” planets don’t have as much trouble with the lower adjutant mind ministry because they trust it. It hasn’t been turned around all backwards, upside down and inwards . . . looking at self-preservation in the completely wrong direction, the exact opposite of the urge of the very first and lowest adjutant. If you’re fighting the first adjutant, how can the others do their job well . . . think about it. If the adjutants can’t function well, the religious instincts don’t function well either. Everything turns to muck in the mind. Without revelation we’d sink under those circumstances. It takes a strong, experienced Adjuster to get through that kind of mire. And all it takes is a little cooperation . . . so simple a caveman can do it.
Every time we allow the spirit nature to ‘decide’, we progress and every time we allow the material/self nature to decide, we regress.
I don’t know if I agree with this entirely. I don’t think it’s a matter of black and white; right ear, left ear. Isn’t it more about striking a balance between the material and the spiritual? All reality levels have needs and I don’t think it’s a seesaw relationship, up or down. It’s about striking a harmonious relationship with all three levels of reality while growing and progressing forward toward more and more spiritual influence on those three levels. It’s more of a wholistic approach.
I don’t know the best way to explain this. It seems that I always fall short describing the elliptical symmetry of reality. But think about it: Jesus gave attention to both the material and spiritual needs of himself, his family and his apostles and their families. Heck, his first miracle was about wine, and his second was healing physical bodies. It all matters and it matters most if the spiritual nature can direct the activities of the material nature making life more true, beautiful and good.
I do believe it is possible to live a righteous, completely God-centered life and be a fat, rich person with all the material comforts known to man. Those things are not incompatible with the spiritual life. More on that later. Out of time for now.
Bradly wrote: Every time we allow the spirit nature to ‘decide’, we progress and every time we allow the material/self nature to decide, we regress.The more I think about this statement, the less I agree with it. I think it needs to be refined because decisions are made within the context of constantly moving parts. A decision made this moment may be good, but in the next not so good, or even, perhaps better. It’s not just about right and wrong decisions. I think decisions cover the entire gamut and the goal is moving toward good, better and best. But sometimes a neutral decision is the best . . . in other words . . . doing nothing can be right under some circumstances. For example, when Jesus took the apostles apart when they were knee-deep in disputes with John’s disciples over decisions that had to be made. Sometimes no decision is best. So again, it can’t be black and white if decision making is to be a living and flexible part of life.
When it comes to decisions, it’s about turning potentials into actuals. But the best actuals are not only timed perfectly, they have the best bang for the buck when it comes to meanings and values. It’s not just about making a right or wrong decision, the decision has to be done for the right reasons at the right time and in the right manner. Lot’s of “rights” to consider there. And that is why I think what was right yesterday might not be right today, and vice versa. It is a moving, growing and progressing concept. Ever changing. I’m reminded of this quote:
118:6.6 In the mortal life, paths of differential conduct are continually opening and closing, and during the times when choice is possible the human personality is constantly deciding between these many courses of action.Temporal volition is linked to time, and it must await the passing of time to find opportunity for expression. Spiritual volition has begun to taste liberation from the fetters of time, having achieved partial escape from time sequence, and that is because spiritual volition is self-identifying with the will of God.
Spiritual volition . . . what’s that? I’m guessing that’s the will of God, which is something we sporadically do in this life. And when we do, we begin to taste this type of liberation, but we are still limited in our choices while living within time. We can make the faith-leap to our souls, which somewhat transcends time, but we must live within time. This means that we can visit our souls, we can even choose to partially live there, but we still make decisions in this material world with our material minds.
I think that as we climb the psychic circles, the soul has more and more influence over our material mind’s decision making process, provided the personality gives permission. This is the goal. Transference of dominance means that the personality gives permission to the soul to sort through the many options facing us when it’s decision time. In this way, the meanings and values discovered in the soul eventually dominate decision making on the material level. Years ago I used to call this bringing love to life. (It wasn’t well received, but that was the “other” forum, c’est la vie!) Bringing love to life is actuating the divine potentials discovered in the soul.
Now personally, I don’t find divine potentials just floating around like butterflies in my soul awaiting my net. It’s not like that at all. Potentials are living, flexible, ever changing dependent upon the various relationships in one’s material life (personal and otherwise). Each decision is potentially unique for the situation at hand. The goal is to actuate the best option for the situation. But sometimes I think that good and gooder, is also acceptable given our capacity to recognize meanings and values. That’s why my conduct in a particular situation today may seem best, but when I look back from a future time, I may understand it as only okay. Good enough, but could have been gooder. But I didn’t know any better at the time, so what I did was okay with God for that particular stage of growth I was in.
Is this making any sense? ‘Cause I never know when to shut up.
Robbie Nevil Lyrics C’est La Vie
Got a job
That’s okay
But they’ve got me workin’ night and day.
Punchin’ in
Punchin’ out
Is this really what life’s all about?
What you are gonna do
What you are gonna feel? I don’t know.
What you ore gonna feel
What you are gonna do?
Won’t someone tell me?
What yov want to say
What you want to do
There’s only one thing left to say.
What you want to do
What you want to say.
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!
Baby’s gone all alone
Are you sad because you’re on your own?
Get back up
Party down
There’s so many good ones still around.
What you are gonna do
What you are gonna feel? I don’t know.
What you are gonna feel
What you are gonna do?
Won’t someone tell me?
What you want to say
What you want to do
I guess there’s just one thing to say.
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!
Hey
It’s J.J.
What you been doin’?
You say your car broke down
The thing just isn’t movin’.
Say J.J.
Don’t you know when you’re down
There’s just one way to go
And that’s singin’
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!
See’est la vie
See’est la vie –
That’s iust the way it goes – That’s right!VanAmadon ….. what this song his all about ????Nelsong …. sorry about what ???… his yours posts make senses to something ?… his yours posts make senses to something ?
Thanks André. It’s just another attempt to derail the topic. We’ve seen this movie before and it’s a flop.
But I’m curious, do you think decisions are black and white? Good or bad? Right or wrong? Or do you think decisions are multifaceted. Do you think most decisions require a bit of insight into potential cause and effect, value versus lack of value? Don’t the best decisions bring more clarity and stability to a situation, rather than chaos and confusion. Shouldn’t people think about what they do first? Shouldn’t they ask their inner selves if this will help the situation in some way? Or is a reflex reaction the best option, such as, it feels “good” to me right now so that’s what I’m gonna do? Is going with your first gut reaction, the one that makes you happy about yourself, the best decision? Don’t we judge decisions by their results? If the result makes you feel good about yourself, but others experience more chaos (like derailing threads), is that really a worthwhile and valuable decision worth presenting to the Supreme?
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