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Yes. The joy of having a book that says things about how to increase joy for our descendants by following him. The one who gave us the direction.
Being an agondonter is a blessing beyond measure. It’s a reward for faith-effort that sets us apart from the average. That’s pretty incredible. How anyone could think it has anything, except four letters, in common with the word agony is beyond me. Holy Cow! The ability to believe without seeing is extraordinary. To be able to persevere in isolation is something very few are capable of. And the ability to overcome insuperable difficulties makes us all superheroes in a way. We get our super strength from invisible sources without much perceivable help. That is something really really special. It’s a stunning degree of faith! Where’s the agony in that?
50:7.3 All through the Paradise career, reward follows effort as the result of causes. Such rewards set off the individual from the average, provide a differential of creature experience, and contribute to the versatility of ultimate performances in the collective body of the finaliters.
As to Gene’s question about the distinction of being an agondonter disappearing while in Havona is interesting. I have no idea. I don’t think they ever explain that, but I’ll keep looking for clues.
As to Gene’s question about the distinction of being an agondonter disappearing while in Havona is interesting. I have no idea. I don’t think they ever explain that, but I’ll keep looking for clues.
Ultimately, there’s nothing special about being an agondonter.
(177:5.6) “one more day to do the Father’s will “
Let’s look at the entire quote, shall we? and the context in which it is used – Jesus’ last night. This has nothing to do with agondonter-ship.
177:5.6 (1928.3) It was just before midnight when Jesus, knowing this would be the last night he would ever sleep through with his chosen family on earth, said, as he dispersed them for the night: “Go to your sleep, my brethren, and peace be upon you till we rise on the morrow, one more day to do the Father’s will and experience the joy of knowing that we are his sons.”
Nevertheless, it does talk about the joy of knowing we are his sons. Which is certainly something ‘special’ in my opinion. Why so pessimistic, VanAmadon?
Keryn wrote: That was my question.OOPS. Then it is true . . . senile decay has arrived. Sorry.
Why so pessimistic, VanAmadon?
Nobody who knows me will ever tell you that I’m remotely pessimistic. For me, relating things about who I am and what I think is difficult on this new media we call the internet. But I don’t want to make excuses. I won’t ever give up sharing my joy in living life, and one of its greatest things, the Urantia Book. Forgive me if what I say about it confounds you. I think I’m actually too optimistic really. And I get into trouble when I don’t articulate well. But I’ll get better.
Enno
Bonita said:
“We get our super strength from invisible sources without much perceivable help.”
Interesting you would put it this way: not certain how to capture my thoughts about this but all this help certainly gets incorporated into our lives in varying degrees and maybe perception needs more broader definition or maybe perception has little to do with it??
analogous to responding to the first five Adjutants, most is so automatic: (I watch my dog carefully sometimes and can observe some of these interactions easily and there is zero perception involved at all – as far as my dog is concerned)
Possibly the higher Adjutants may be a bit more perceivable? After all , aren’t all 7 part of the cosmic mind?? The lowest level of mind??
do you think that believing without seeing involves a higher level of mind? Aren’t we kind of stuck in the cosmic for now?
Possibly the higher Adjutants may be a bit more perceivable? After all , aren’t all 7 part of the cosmic mind?? The lowest level of mind?? do you think that believing without seeing involves a higher level of mind? Aren’t we kind of stuck in the cosmic for now?
Hmmm . . . not sure that’s entirely true. The cosmic mind goes all the way up to the Seven Master Spirits. It’s pretty high flying stuff. What we have is a Nebadon variation of the cosmic mind, but its origin is still way up there. I don’t think this is the right thread to discuss the cosmic mind, but I can say we are aware of it on some level. There’s those three cosmic reality recognition reflexes.
When I said not much perceptible help, I’m talking about human senses failing us. The mind can learn to feel the presence of God in the soul, but it takes effort and desire. A lot of people rely on their basic physical senses to navigate through their lives. On worlds with visible celestials in residence, folks have confirmation with their physical senses. We have to rely on training ourselves to pick up spiritual senses, and then lock on with faith. Is that any clearer?
9:4.3 The mind endowment of the seven superuniverses is derived from the Seven Master Spirits, the primary personalities of the Conjoint Creator. These Master Spirits distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind, and your local universe is pervaded by the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind.
I think I found the answer to my own question:
Bradly, I wanted to say that this topic of agondonters is an excellent one and has provided rich discussion so far. I apologize to you for my part in following the eugenics derail. I really do want to talk about agondonters some more. In particular, something in this quote is striking:
50:7.2 (579.1) On Jerusem the ascenders from these isolated worlds occupy a residential sector by themselves and are known as the agondonters, meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone. This functional grouping of the agondonters persists throughout the ascension of the local universe and the traversal of the superuniverse; it disappears during the sojourn in Havona but promptly reappears upon the attainment of Paradise and definitely persists in the Corps of the Mortal Finality. Tabamantia is an agondonter of finaliter status, having survived from one of the quarantined spheres involved in the first rebellion ever to take place in the universes of time and space.
I wonder why the designation of agondonter “disappears” during the sojourn in Havona but then “reappears” upon Paradise. That would seem to indicate that the designation has some type of function or reason for being used everywhere except in Havona. Any thoughts as to why that is?
Consider the following quotes in light of the phase from the quote above “this functional grouping of the agondonters … disappears during the sojourn in Havona”:
30:4:27 Sometimes all training worlds of mortal residence are called universe “mansions,” and it was to such spheres that Jesus alluded when he said: “In my Father’s house are many mansions.” From here on, within a given group of spheres like the mansion worlds, ascenders will progress individually from one sphere to another and from one phase of life to another, but they will always advance from one stage of universe study to another in class formation.
30:4.27 (343.2) The journey from the superuniverse headquarters to the Havona receiving spheres is always made alone. From now on no more class or group instruction will be administered. You are through with the technical and administrative training of the evolutionary worlds of time and space. Now begins your personal education, your individual spiritual training. From first to last, throughout all Havona, the instruction is personal and threefold in nature: intellectual, spiritual, and experiential.
So perhaps the group designation of agondonter disappears on Havona because, while there, we are alone, without class or group affiliation.
Ultimately, there’s nothing special about being an agondonter.
(177:5.6) “one more day to do the Father’s will “
I guess we will remain plagued yet by such Nod/Not-isms and platitudes that directly contradict the UB??!! …and remain off-topic, still!! In this case the authors disagree with you, again. There is something special about being alive, and being a tadpole with fusion/frog potential and knowing/feeling God’s love. Ours is a thrilling adventure of eternal bliss in this friendly universe. The gods have found the agondonters to be a rare resource of faith, fortitude, loyalty, and capability. The mercy time-lag of justice, whenever rebellion arises (as rare as that is), delivers a new breed of Finaliter which is quite “special” indeed!! All mortal borns are subject to the hammer and anvil, but some are more finely tempered, hammered, and honed to a sharper edge for work only they can best perform. Such a process is only “agony” to those who do not know their origin, destiny, and the love of God’s magnificent universe.
50:7.1 (578.6) On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.
I wonder nod if you still find the UB to be dangerous as you have claimed before? It does not seem to bring you much joy or comfort or even hope. I love the blues (music)….but dude, you can wilt flowers with your demeanor and rhetoric….just sayin’.
Your agonies are your own…and the best way, perhaps, you might help your grandchildren is to find a way to lay aside your anguish, disappointments, impatience, fears, expectations of others….and embrace reality….the reality that we are loved, cared for, guided, and ministered to directly by the Father, Mother, and Son….and all their trillions of trillions of children. Your dark views and myopic attention to the dark patches of the errors of growth and the evil/sins of others is very tiring. I am so very sorry for you Enno. No faith-son should feel so depressed and be so intent on depressing others as you obviously are….perhaps you could give it a rest here?
Thank you Midi for the very responsive text you provided in this little detour of nod’s. I have found that many have very narrow opinions about the inevitable racial amalgamation that every world, including our own, experiences. Racial integrity and progress as presented in the Papers has nothing to do with color, culture, wealth, class, education, intelligence or any other such measure. I agree with Bonita that this is a genetic issue related to disease, physical deformities that cause suffering, and any and all genetic defects which accelerate mortality and reduce the functioning of normal mindedness….most especially those traits which are inherited! And I agree with Keryn’s concerns that our society is not nearly mature and kind enough and properly motivated by brotherhood and love to even have a rational discussion, let alone begin any form of eugenics “cleansing” efforts. But this has begun in my lifetime, already. Geneticists are racing to identify genetic markers that are undesirable and medical science races to find ways to treat/cure such genetics in parents and fetuses and babies. We have begun to develop the capabilities of extended longevity and improved quality of life and to enhance the body’s ability to prevent or overcome many maladies that have been killing, disabling, and bring suffering to the mortals of Urantia.
Keryn….no apologies….we go where the trail takes us…..your’s is a most welcome voice and perspective. Sound reasoning and critical thinking….so glad you are enjoying the topic.
Bonita….BINGO!!….as usual! I was really forming some new perspectives on this issue when you were presenting the role of personality in faith and love….I think it important to study how the ancients and primitives of any world discover the dual nature and respond to the Spirit without any knowledge or beliefs and yet how all beliefs seem to spring from this inner awareness and how belief that turns to faith which becomes the primal cause for behavior and choices leads humanity forward through the Mortal Epochs of time even before and during the planetary rulers and examples walk among us.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the topic and I certainly look forward to more questions, text, discussion, and learning thereby and therefrom!! = )
Why so pessimistic, VanAmadon?
Nobody who knows me will ever tell you that I’m remotely pessimistic. For me, relating things about who I am and what I think is difficult on this new media we call the internet. But I don’t want to make excuses. I won’t ever give up sharing my joy in living life, and one of its greatest things, the Urantia Book. Forgive me if what I say about it confounds you. I think I’m actually too optimistic really. And I get into trouble when I don’t articulate well. But I’ll get better. Enno
“Agony”, “nothing special”, “being nice isn’t kind”, “if you were invaded in your home at night” = optimistic? Confounding, indeed!
No….but would that help? I am sad for you Enno….just sad…and yet hopeful. I’ve known “down-in-the-mouth” folk, pessimists worried about rain while the sun shines and sunshine when it rains….nothing seems to quite satisfy their expectations of failure and disappointment. A curious state of mind for a believer and student of the FER. You exasperate me. That is a blessing I will find the silver lining to….eventually…..maybe even sooner.
Best wishes in your “agonies”.
= )
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