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Any religious book is not the name of a religion. However, religions have been formulated based on the teachings from said religious books. These are tenants. They are the “main points” of any given religion.
What did you tell your lady friend are the tenets of the Urantia Book? I’m curious to know.
Bonita wrote:
“When you and your girlfriend are gathered, both of you being believers in God, Jesus is right there with you. Take advantage of that and let the Spirit of Truth do his own work.”
Yay!! Remember too that the Spirit of Truth is just busting to do that work. And since that work is love, it’s a win-win thing.
Chuck, as you know, before we can enjoy a vintage, we need vines; before we can have vines, we, or rather Michael, needs his vineyard in good repair. As I see it, our special opportunity is to help restore one of the best vineyards in all Nebadon. Which means there must be some delay before we can kick back and enjoy the fruit of (someone else’s) labor. But by laboring, your children’s children may be able to enjoy the sort of social framework you desire.
PS: No one said being agondonter was easy!
Nigel
Yay!! Remember too that the Spirit of Truth is just busting to do that work. And since that work is love, it’s a win-win thing.
I’ll ditto that!
180:5.11 And so must we clearly recognize that neither the golden rule nor the teaching of nonresistance can ever be properly understood as dogmas or precepts. They can only be comprehended by living them, by realizing their meanings in the living interpretation of the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact of one human being with another.
When the Spirit of Truth is allowed to do his work within a personal relationship, the result is the very best for all involved. Everyone benefits and is better for having engaged in the relationship. Personality relationships are the most important part of living. We are known throughout our careers by the companions we keep. They tell us that personality relationships are an end in themselves, and that is because relationships are where real spiritual work is done. Personal relationships are the moral ground from which spirit ideals grow. Moral decisions are decisions involving people, and it is those decisions which impel us along the psychic circles of spiritual progress. Relationships matter more than churches and books, that’s for sure because they are the outworking of divine love.
112:2.8 Every true relationship of mortal man with other persons — human or divine — is an end in itself.
112:5.22 But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.
I can’t stress it enough that a moral dilemma concerning the question of what has more value, a loving relationship or a book/church, is a really a non-dilemma, a no-brainer. Relationships always win.
While my wife is also a long time reader and it is wonderful to have the Revelation to share, my family are Baptist and I have many friends who are religionists of many different denominations, so I would like to consider those ‘tenets’ in the UB that I share with others frequently. Tenets are beliefs that are shared in common, right? And Jesus taught us to seek out that which is shared first rather than focus on any differences….to seek to add to another some truth, beauty, and goodness rather than change, correct, or remove anything. We are also taught to seek out other religionists and to learn from them…not convert them. It’s a very small and limited world if we can only be with those who agree with us!
We learn with questions and by listening and finding agreements in our beliefs, hopes, ideals, and loving service to one another. Jesus taught with questions too. How interested are we, truly, in the Light Within and the Faith of others? We should also remember that faith, saving faith delivering spiritization, is far different than beliefs and do not depend upon the accuracy of any and all beliefs. I am also reminded that there are as many religions as there are believers, no matter the beliefs or tenets shared or not shared. Every Methodist and every Catholic and every Baptist has a unique religion and religious experience.
So what might a UB student have in common with other flavors of believers? For me, most Christians are easy to share with. I simply begin with the Jesusonian gospel and all tenets held in common within the Bible…and quote scripture rather than the UB directly. I suggest the Paramony for cross-research and reference as a guide here. Here’s a partial list….other tenets would be most welcome.
God, creation, angels, heaven, soul, faith, fruits of the Spirit, Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Adam and Eve, parables, resurrection, love, service….and so much more!
A topic I have found delivers interesting discussion is creationism and evolution and how the second is a form or tool of the first. Many religionists are integrating these two concepts…unifying scientific functionalities with religious beliefs….and recently what science is proving most is how ridiculous the big bang accidentally sourced biologic evolution story truly is and how little is explained by mechanistic accidentalism. The UB provides many such fascinating points of perspective easily embraced by non-readers when approached properly.
Interesting topic and discussion.
Tenets are beliefs that are shared in common, right?
Do you mean shared in common by all religionists? If so, then no. The definition mentions nothing of universality. A tenet concerns the beliefs of all members of a single religion, philosophy or organization.
Definition of tenet. : a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially: one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or profession.
For instance, one of the tenets of the Catholic Church is that Jesus is the only son of God. Another one states that he was born of the Holy Ghost by the Virgin Mary. Another tenet is that Jesus descended into hell after death and rose the third day. These mythological tenets are huge stumbling blocks for many religionists, for those who believe them and for those who don’t. But I can agree that Jesus is a son of God, just not the only one, and that he was incarnated into flesh by being born of a woman. I can also agree that he rose on the third day, but there’s no way I could ever agree that Jesus descended into hell. That’s where I draw the line. I have to tell people, no matter how offended they become, that hell does not exist. I also can’t allow anyone to tell me that he died for my sins. I’ll say, “Maybe for yours.” I won’t bring these two sticking points up, but if someone else does, then Houston, we have a problem.
Tenets are beliefs that are shared in common, right?
Do you mean shared in common by all religionists? If so, then no. The definition mentions nothing of universality. A tenet concerns the beliefs of all members of a single religion, philosophy or organization. Definition of tenet. : a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially: one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or profession. For instance, one of the tenets of the Catholic Church is that Jesus is the only son of God. Another one states that he was born of the Holy Ghost by the Virgin Mary. Another tenet is that Jesus descended into hell after death and rose the third day. These mythological tenets are huge stumbling blocks for many religionists, for those who believe them and for those who don’t. But I can agree that Jesus is a son of God, just not the only one, and that he was incarnated into flesh by being born of a woman. I can also agree that he rose on the third day, but there’s no way I could ever agree that Jesus descended into hell. That’s where I draw the line. I have to tell people, no matter how offended they become, that hell does not exist. I also can’t allow anyone to tell me that he died for my sins. I’ll say, “Maybe for yours.” I won’t bring these two sticking points up, but if someone else does, then Houston, we have a problem.
Lol.
I’m in that boat with you, with God
This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.
Mythological tenets mentioned above generally prevent any meaningful discussion of religion between myself and my borne again Christian son. I did have one breakthrough however when I pointed out how the biblical concept of the God of the Saini that took brutal revenge on non believers got an upgrade in the NT to a God of love and mercy.
We agreed that progress happens in our religious experience.
It’s a start.I did have one breakthrough however when I pointed out how the biblical concept of the God of the Saini that took brutal revenge on non believers got an upgrade in the NT to a God of love and mercy. We agreed that progress happens in our religious experience.
Hooray for logic and reason. It comes in handy sometimes.
101:1.1 True religion is not a system of philosophic belief which can be reasoned out and substantiated by natural proofs, neither is it a fantastic and mystic experience of indescribable feelings of ecstasy which can be enjoyed only by the romantic devotees of mysticism. Religion is not the product of reason, but viewed from within, it is altogether reasonable. Religion is not derived from the logic of human philosophy, but as a mortal experience it is altogether logical. Religion is the experiencing of divinity in the consciousness of a moral being of evolutionary origin; it represents true experience with eternal realities in time, the realization of spiritual satisfactions while yet in the flesh.
Bonita, I see your point about comprimise. However there are some things on wich I am not willing to comprimise. Being able to freely practice and express my faith within a relationship is one of them. If my partner is not willing to allow me to do that then it won’t work out. The same is true for me. If I do not allow my partner to give voice/expression to her faith then it won’t work out.
As for the tennants, I explained that we both believe in one God. I also explained the differences between Christianity and the ub. Examples that I gave her include the atonement doctrine. We haven’t really discussed the ub in any great detail. I’ve only pointed out some of the similarities and differences within the two faiths.
Nigel, thanks for the encouragement. It means a lot. Same to you Bonita. Bradly as well.
Bonita I think Bradly was talking strictly about Christianity and the ub.
Gene, That is my point. The Ub and Christianity, for lack of a better way to phrase it, you and your sons’ religions, are proving to be a stumbling block to your relationship. While you can discuss your differences neither one of you, I ask pardon if I am wrong here, are willing to conseed that the other might be right. Your son is being the typical Christian with the oppinion that he’s right and everyone else is wrong. That is typical of most conservitive Christians.
That is my problem as well. While my lady has respect for my religious choice she is willing to go no farther than that.
Religious differences between me and my son do not interfere with our relationship. It’s good to have differences.
Remember that God is no respecter of persons, he loved the savage that worshiped him thinking he was fire.
In regard to being right-both of us are right. Think about it : all religious beliefs are relative and partial and incomplete. Believing in God is more important than not.
We will not be in the presence of God the father for a very long time and in the process of getting there our understanding of him and relationship with him will most certainly evolve and current beliefs will give way to new.Bonita, I see your point about comprimise.
Did I mention compromise? I don’t recall. What I said, I think, is that relationships are more important than churches and books. Love is the only thing that matters. If you love institutions, ideologies and things more than you love an intimate friend and partner, then there’s a problem. I’m pretty sure that’s what I said. But I agree, this applies to both sides of the relationship.
Gene wrote:
“I did have one breakthrough however when I pointed out how the biblical concept of the God of the [Sinai] that took brutal revenge on non believers got an upgrade in the NT to a God of love and mercy.
We agreed that progress happens in our religious experience.
It’s a start.And a good start, too! Now, a next step you and Chuck might both take is to ask about the religious life of Jesus himself, before there was a system of faith called Christianity. I once asked a pair of fresh young Anglican ministers about this; they looked at each other, realizing that they’d never really thought about that, the most important fact in the foundation of their own strong faith.
Nigel
Gene wrote:
“I did have one breakthrough however when I pointed out how the biblical concept of the God of the [Sinai] that took brutal revenge on non believers got an upgrade in the NT to a God of love and mercy.
We agreed that progress happens in our religious experience.
It’s a start.And a good start, too! Now, a next step you and Chuck might both take is to ask about the religious life of Jesus himself, before there was a system of faith called Christianity. I once asked a pair of fresh young Anglican ministers about this; they looked at each other, realizing that they’d never really thought about that, the most important fact in the foundation of their own strong faith.
Nigel
Good one, I have not thought about that either but it is now on my to-do list.
Possibly a new thread on similar thought provoking ideas for potential UB students is in order?I know that there have been past attempts: I have a paper written by Meredith Springer titled “ an intro to TUB for conservative Christians” but because of the way the atonement doctrine was presented it was soundly rejected.
Like most, my spouse comes from a different perspective. She is Catholic. She once picked up the UB. I suggested that she start with the Jesus papers. At the first point of divergence from Catholic doctrine (Mary had more than one child)….she quit reading. Catholicism preaches that the brothers/sisters of Jesus were actually cousins (an error due to an interpretation error of common words of the day). This split in a marriage is tough in many ways….my parents were also separated by beliefs: Baptist vs. Lutheranism. I have tried to rise above all of the differences and have, mostly in the past, looked into most current religions. My approach over the past many years is to try to connect on common ground with all that I meet….and as Jesus did, find and re-inforce the positives in others’ beliefs.
Somewhat related to the posts immediately above is the question of paganism within Christianity. The UB tells us repeatedly that Christianity is “weakened” by such (my words, paraphrase). I was recently talking with a Christian and this subject came up. He recommended that I read a book from 2008 by Frank Viola entitled “Pagan Christianity”. I have not purchased it yet but it looks interesting. It was interesting to see that one of the reviewers, a prof from Asbury mentioned that Paganism leads to impotency in the Christian church. I think most Christians are not aware of Paganism within the church as a whole. When I mentioned such to a younger, very close relative (Catholic) in the midst of a discussion…her eyes got wide and she indicated, “I never had thought of that!” I think now she will.
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