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I’d like the ub community’s input on a question.
I’ve started dating a young lady. While she accepts my belief in TUB, she is unwilling to go any farther than that. She is unwilling to attempt to read our book, nor does it seem likely she will participate with me in any ub related activities such as study groups or conferences. I can tell her the basics of ub tennants, but beyond that she does not wish to know anything.
I’ve explained about the UAI forums and my zoom study group that I attend. It should be interesting if this relationship evolves to the next level and we are both living in the same house as I check the forum topics more or less on a daily basis, my study group meets once a week, I have (and hope to attend more) attended several ub related events, and I have in the past attempted a UBIS course and hope to give it another try at some point. I’ve known this lady for several years and I think that she is unlikely to change her posission .
In short, we have two different faiths. She is United Methodist. I go to the same church she does yet I am an ub believer.
From what I was told, it is uncommon for both parts of a couple to be ub believers. One is, the other is not.
Can anyone give me some advice? Is anyone out there in, or have been in, a similar situation?
This is a situation in wich we are both of different faiths, she is willing to show tolerance for mine, as I am for hers, but other than the basics of ub beliefs for lack of a better way to phrase it, she is not willing to learn anymore.Hi Chucksmith,
I’in a situation like that.
Hihihihi, he is not looking for perfect univers … he think will be boring. Sometimes he believe in God and sometimes he didn”t.
I wouldn’t be with him if he do not abide witn significations, values, morality. The only thing he understands and valued is my inner life whom make me lovable.
I respect his freewill and his own relationship with God. I do not considered him less inhabitated with God’s gifts and directives. And he contribuating to enhances some significations, somes values in my life.
About statistics, didn’t give somes concerns.
You know Chuck read UB is not a prerequise to be accept as family member.
I’m married to an Irish Catholic. She’s not active in the Church. She’s not interested in reading the book.
I’ve learned to respect her beliefs and not present too much from the UB to her. It does nothing but to confuse her.
I’ve found it is best to just live my life as best I can in line with the teachings of the UB and the guidance God provides me within and let her make her own determinations about it that way, if she learns anything at all.
I believe it’s best for me that I’m not married to a reader. It allows for more growth in my opinion, for both of us.
I’m blessed with her being in my life. Actually, I’m learning more from her than she’s learning from me.
That realization is behind what makes it work, and why I love her so much.
All the best.
My wife and I had the same UB cult experience many years ago and it affected her differently. She did about 20 years ago read part 4, loved it and remains ok with just that. She just don’t feel the need to probe deeper.
I have learned how to talk about specific concepts at opportune times and she is open to that but it’s not enough to stimulate study.
It’s not a problem however, she’s more spiritual in her life than me.
Neither of us go to any church and I do not do study groups / there aren’t any around here and I tend to enjoy this forum and get a lot out of it.
Actually- I do listen at times to dr halverson on his blog talk radio show but he goes way over my head too many times.Hi Chuck,
Given my target dissemination audience (skeptical physicists), I needed some sort of ice-breaker for introducing the UB. My attempt to make such an ice-breaker is the first three videos in the set below. (The physics stuff begins in the (4-part) Part 4.)
I’d love to know how someone like your (God-loving?) friend responds to these first three parts… ??
PS: for watching on small-to-medium screens, select a low-res version (e.g. 480p, not 720p or 1080p). Audio is the same in all resolutions, and the low-res versions are MUCH smaller. The HD versions are intended for large TV screens and conferences.
Parts 1, 2, 3:
Part 1 – Universe Frames
Part 2 – the Personal Universe
Part 3 – a Family AffairHere’s link to play all three parts: Urantia Book and Personality
These next three videos make up the first half of Part 4:
Cosmology part 4A Foundations
Cosmology part 4B1 Mass & Matter (part 1)
Cosmology part 4B2 Mass & Matter (part 2)This playlist plays all three: Urantia Book Cosmology
PS: here are the (very colorful!) PDF scripts. If you skip through these PDF’s in full page mode, you can see the full text, together with snapshots from the movies.
Part 1 – Universe Frames
Part 2 – the Personal Universe
Part 3 – a Family Affair
– – – – –
Part 4A – Foundations
Part 4B – Mass & MatterBest wishes for your deeply personal adventure with your beloved,
Nigel
My spouse is a proud atheist. I read and studied the UB for years and kept it a secret from him because I knew he would not understand and I was afraid he might belittle the book, which I just knew I couldn’t take. (I should have had more faith, as you will soon see.) After 3 years of reading the book and participating in forums, I had a burning desire to attend a Urantia Foundation event in Chicago. This required that I tell him about my interest in the book, as I needed him to take over all family responsibilities so I could travel to the event.
I told him about the event and I showed him a copy of the UB. Now, he is not a reader. He reads the newspaper but that’s it. So I am really never able to talk about books with him (I am a prolific reader of all types of books.) He leafed through the book and his first question was, ‘When was it published?’ and when I said 1955, that seemed to strike him positively (not some trendy, new agey religion stuff). He spent about 2 minutes looking at the book and then supported my interest in going to the event. As I was about to finish the conversation, I suddenly realized that I better tell him about authorship of the UB. I said, “Oh, by the way, this book wasn’t written by humans.” He didn’t really react to that (I’m sure he thought I was nuts; but he didn’t ridicule the idea or say anything to make me feel embarrassed or belittled. He was respectful.) But, that was the end of it. We’ve never talked of it again. I read it openly now, though, at home, which feels better than keeping it a secret.
He is a moral person, a good person, who is already living a life of Truth, Beauty and Goodness. He just doesn’t like to read and doesn’t like to feel subordinate to a higher power. He’ll get over it in the next life; I’m not concerned about it.
The key then, is respect.
As for the vidios, she won’t watch them. She isn’t interested in anything that isn’t specifically Christian when it comes to religion.
As for my Sunday night study group/other ub related activities, what am I to do about those? We’re both disabled so she can’t simply leave when I’m attending my online study group. As for the forum I can put on my headphones when I am using JAWS to interact with the text and she won’t hear it read the screen. Same goes for any other online text interaction. Other activities that are offline… Someone can pick me up to attend ub gatherings if I can arrange it. She wouldn’t have to come…
I’m in love with this young lady and I want it to work out. At the same time, I don’t want to feel like I’m keeping a big part of my life hidden from her.
What do those who are not ub believers do while the believers are worshiping/interacting with other believers? Do they leave when the believers are in study group or using the forum? If we move in together it will most likely be a small house with nowhere that she can go where she can not hear at least my side of the study group interaction assuming I use headphones. While I am not saying that my religious practices will be hidden from her, she will not (and most likely this will be perminant) wish to know anything about any of my ub activities… much like the spouces of those who answered my post. How do you keep something that has meant so much to you separate from the relationship? In short I’ve made the UB my religion. How am I to keep something that has been and will continue to be a large part of my life separate from my interactions with a person who I hope to make a large part of my life? Especially when the person has absolutely no interest in said large part of my life? Sorry for the redundant phrasing. I hope you all know where I’m comeing from.
In short I’ve made the UB my religion.
I think that’s the problem. The Urantia Book is not a religion. If God himself is a large part of your life instead of the Book, it would not be a problem, right?
I can tell her the basics of ub tennants,
This is also a problem. The Urantia Book does not have tenets. I think you’ve turned the Urantia Book into a Church and you’d prefer a partner who belongs to the same Church. Wouldn’t it be more fruitful to explore and share each other’s personal relationship with God, which incidentally, has nothing at all to do with the Urantia Book? Love for God is love for God . . . there are no tenets involved. Share the love. Studying the Book is just a hobby.
Thanks Bonita — I think you’ve touched a central reason for the slow spread of interest in this gift. As long as readers see the UB as some new thing to believe in, others will, naturally, get put off.
But when we are in love with the source and center of love, the UB becomes simply reminder of where, what and why we are.
Nigel
Bonita, I see your point about the ub not being a religion, but it is a framework. When I was a Christian I worshiped God in a Christian framework. Now I worship him in a Urantia framework. Maybe structure would be a better word choice here. To me, the framework/structure is important. I guess the reason is because I was/am so heavily involved in church. Over the years, having a certain place to gather and worship with community has become important to me. The ub movement is so scattered and small that we have not developed that structure. We come together for study groups and conferences if we are able to do so. We talk on this forum. But we have not developed the same person to person interaction that comes with being involved in a religion such as Christianity. I will use you to illustrate my point. Do you interact, person to person, not keyboard to keyboard as for example on this forum, with other ub believers? Do you have a central place where you can gather with other like minded believers for fellowship and worship?
If you are like me, the answer is no. I interact person to person once a week thanks to zoom with my ub study group, but we are so scattered around the country that I do not physically see the persons with whom I am interacting. Being able to physically reach out and touch someone is important to me. Being able to call someone that I know lives within driving distance and interact face to face to do something that does not involve the ub but instead simply involves friendship and us doing something as friends is important to me. With friends from church, even though they do not share my beliefs in the ub, that type of interaction is possible.
Any religious book is not the name of a religion. However, religions have been formulated based on the teachings from said religious books. These are tenants. They are the “main points” of any given religion.
In time the Urantia Book will be used to form a religion. The book hints at such a thing happening though I can’t remember where. I think the term cult might give you the result I am thinking of if entered into the search field.
As for your question about whether or not I’d prefer my partner to share my belief in the ub, the answer is yes. I’d prefer to have a partner who is within the same framework/structure as myself. According to research I’ve done it appears as if change of religion/different religious beliefs is a cause of divorce. I know of several people who have had to choose between their marriages and belief and practice in the ub. They are no longer in study groups or participate in any ub related activities in order to preserve the peace. They have chosen to give up the ub to preserve their marriages. I will not be one of these. If it comes to me being able to practice my faith whether that include study groups, classes with UBIS, forum interactions, reading The Urantia Book, conferences, or being married, I’ll choose my faith over being married.
Me and my young lady have talked about this though and I don’t think it will come to that.
Bonita, you said “I think that’s the problem. The Urantia Book is not a religion. If God himself is a large part of your life instead of the Book, it would not be a problem, right”
Remember I am from the Bible belt. If you are not a Bible believing Christian but instead draw your faith/belief from another religious text you are considered to be worshiping a different god. A false god. I do not believe in the Bible. I am not a Christian. Therefore, to one who is, I am worshiping a different god than they are. More than that, I am worshiping a false god. If I was, in there minds, worshiping the same God that they were worshiping, I’d believe in the Bible. It wouldn’t be a problem. That, however, is not the case. I do not believe in the Bible. I do however believe in The Urantia Book. The UB is, even though it is not a religion, considered a religious text.
I found the rellavent results. I’ll post them below, however, I copied them to notepad as they were from multiple pages. I didn’t get the location of one result save that it was in part 3. Here are the results.
[Part III]
The cult type of social organization persisted because it provided a symbolism for the preservation and stimulation of moral sentiments and religious loyalties. The cult grew out of the traditions of “old families” and was perpetuated as an established institution; all families have a cult of some sort. Every inspiring ideal grasps for some perpetuating symbolism — seeks some technique for cultural manifestation which will insure survival and augment realization — and the cult achieves this end by fostering and gratifying emotion.
87:7.2 [Part III]
From the dawn of civilization every appealing movement in social culture or religious advancement has developed a ritual, a symbolic ceremonial. The more this ritual has been an unconscious growth, the stronger it has gripped its devotees. The cult preserved sentiment and satisfied emotion, but it has always been the greatest obstacle to social reconstruction and spiritual progress.
87:7.3 [Part III]
Notwithstanding that the cult has always retarded social progress, it is regrettable that so many modern believers in moral standards and spiritual ideals have no adequate symbolism — no cult of mutual support — nothing to belong to. But a religious cult cannot be manufactured; it must grow. And those of no two groups will be identical unless their rituals are arbitrarily standardized by authority.
87:7.4 [Part III]
The early Christian cult was the most effective, appealing, and enduring of any ritual ever conceived or devised, but much of its value has been destroyed in a scientific age by the destruction of so many of its original underlying tenets. The Christian cult has been devitalized by the loss of many fundamental ideas.
87:7.5 [Part III]
In the past, truth has grown rapidly and expanded freely when the cult has been elastic, the symbolism expansile. Abundant truth and an adjustable cult have favored rapidity of social progression. A meaningless cult vitiates religion when it attempts to supplant philosophy and to enslave reason; a genuine cult grows.
87:7.6 [Part III]
Regardless of the drawbacks and handicaps, every new revelation of truth has given rise to a new cult, and even the restatement of the religion of Jesus must develop a new and appropriate symbolism. Modern man must find some adequate symbolism for his new and expanding ideas, ideals, and loyalties. This enhanced symbol must arise out of religious living, spiritual experience. And this higher symbolism of a higher civilization must be predicated on the concept of the Fatherhood of God and be pregnant with the mighty ideal of the brotherhood of man.
87:7.7 [Part III]
The old cults were too egocentric; the new must be the outgrowth of applied love. The new cult must, like the old, foster sentiment, satisfy emotion, and promote loyalty; but it must do more: It must facilitate spiritual progress, enhance cosmic meanings, augment moral values, encourage social development, and stimulate a high type of personal religious living. The new cult must provide supreme goals of living which are both temporal and eternal — social and spiritual.
87:7.8 [Part III]
No cult can endure and contribute to the progress of social civilization and individual spiritual attainment unless it is based on the biologic, sociologic, and religious significance of the home. A surviving cult must symbolize that which is permanent in the presence of unceasing change; it must glorify that which unifies the stream of ever-changing social metamorphosis. It must recognize true meanings, exalt beautiful relations, and glorify the good values of real nobility.
87:7.9 [Part III]
But the great difficulty of finding a new and satisfying symbolism is because modern men, as a group, adhere to the scientific attitude, eschew superstition, and abhor ignorance, while as individuals they all crave mystery and venerate the unknown. No cult can survive unless it embodies some masterful mystery and conceals some worthful unattainable. Again, the new symbolism must not only be significant for the group but also meaningful to the individual. The forms of any serviceable symbolism must be those which the individual can carry out on his own initiative, and which he can also enjoy with his fellows. If the new cult could only be dynamic instead of static, it might really contribute something worth while to the progress of mankind, both temporal and spiritual.
87:7.10 [Part III]
But a cult — a symbolism of rituals, slogans, or goals — will not function if it is too complex. And there must be the demand for devotion, the response of loyalty. Every effective religion unerringly develops a worthy symbolism, and its devotees would do well to prevent the crystallization of such a ritual into cramping, deforming, and stifling stereotyped ceremonials which can only handicap and retard all social, moral, and spiritual progress. No cult can survive if it retards moral growth and fails to foster spiritual progress. The cult is the skeletal structure around which grows the living and dynamic body of personal spiritual experience — true religion.
Do you interact, person to person, not keyboard to keyboard as for example on this forum, with other ub believers? Do you have a central place where you can gather with other like minded believers for fellowship and worship?
Wherever two or more believers are gathered . . . do you recall that from either the Bible or TUB? No church is necessary for fellowship or for group worship. What Jesus means by believers in the quote below, are believers in God, not a book or an organized religion. Believers can be anyone from any organized religion, or from no specific religion. When you and your girlfriend are gathered, both of you being believers in God, Jesus is right there with you. Take advantage of that and let the Spirit of Truth do his own work.
159:1.3 Although you cannot determine the eternal fate of the individual, you may legislate regarding the conduct of the group, for, where two or three of you agree concerning any of these things and ask of me, it shall be done for you if your petition is not inconsistent with the will of my Father in heaven. And all this is ever true, for, where two or three believers are gathered together, there am I in the midst of them.
178:1.16 You are not to attack the old ways; you are skillfully to put the leaven of new truth in the midst of the old beliefs. Let the Spirit of Truth do his own work.
They have chosen to give up the ub to preserve their marriages. I will not be one of these. If it comes to me being able to practice my faith whether that include study groups, classes with UBIS, forum interactions, reading The Urantia Book, conferences, or being married, I’ll choose my faith over being married. Me and my young lady have talked about this though and I don’t think it will come to that.
That’s rather rigid, isn’t it? What you’re saying is that your lady friend must compromise and change, but you will not do either under any circumstances. Do you see a problem with that? Relationships are supposed to improve and enhance both members.
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