Mara wrote: Here is a “truth-fact”:
There’s another truth-fact in 190:1.6 and a faith-fact in 34:5.7.
But getting back to the three cosmic reality recognition responses . . . I think it’s important to remember what their purpose is. Their purpose is not to recognize facts on three different levels of reality, which is what I think Nigel is saying, although I admit that I could be wrong about that. Their purpose is to establish those relative relationships between energy and spirit “. . . which are suggestive of mutual kinship in eternity” (9:4.5). The cosmic mind accomplishes this task by the technique of self-revelation (16:6.10).
So, what is self-revelation and what is the cosmic mind’s role in accomplishing it? First of all, the greater the spirit-energy divergence, the greater the function of the cosmic mind (9:6.7). Humans, having the greatest spirit-energy divergence also have access to the greatest functional capacity of the cosmic mind, the greatest gravity pull on reality. But, in order to recognize this pull on reality it must register on the personal level of mind. Recognition of reality requires the self-consciousness of personality. The cosmic mind, being impersonal, would appear purely mechanical, automated, unthinking and unrelated if it were not made personal by the personality presence of the Holy Spirit within the mind.
But what is reality? We are told that there are only three elements of reality: fact, idea and relation (196:3.2). Plus, we are told that, for us humans, there are three levels of reality: causation, duty and worship. Causation involves material acumen on the physical level of facts or energy reality; duty involves moral discrimination of self-consciousness on the intellectual level of ideas or mind reality; and, worship involves the insight of progressing selfhood on the level of spiritual relations or spirit reality. These realities “. . . projected on a universal scale, combined in eternal relatedness, and experienced with perfection of quality and divinity of value — constitute the reality of the Supreme” (130:4.2).
The ultimate purpose of the reality recognition responses of the cosmic mind is recognition of the Supreme. “The maximum Deity reality fully comprehensible by evolutionary finite creatures is embraced within the Supreme Being.” (0:3.20) Reality for humans must involve Deity. Reality is not the recognition of facts, but recognition of the interrelatedness of the reality of divinity on a cosmic scale. Which brings me to the question, why rename the Holy Spirit the spirit of facts? If you have to fabricate another name for her, why not the spirit of divinity reality recognition?
And then there’s my other pet peeve. What happens after reality is recognized? The next step is interpretation. Interpretation is the action of explaining the meaning of something. The Holy Spirit does not explain the meaning of reality. After she assists in the discovery and recognition of reality she passes it off to the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster. (And yes, they do work in unison, seamlessly undetected by us.) The comprehension of meaning involves spirit philosophy at the soul level, the level of truth discernment. Spirit philosophy involves the wisdom of spirit realities and the endowment of the Spirit of Truth (101:3.2). And we are told that this divine endowment is “. . . the conviction of truth, the consciousness and assurance of true meanings on real spirit levels“(180:5.1).
So what is the wisdom of spirit realities and the conviction of truth all about? Here’s where we get back to self-revelation, the technique of establishing personality relationships to reality. Let us not forget that the “. . . Son is infinite in wisdom and truth, in spiritual expression and interpretation; he is the universal revealer“(9:0.2). Spiritual wisdom is not obtained by applying the finite to the spiritual level of reality; it is the other way around. Spiritual wisdom is obtained when the spirit reveals the meaning of finite reality with spiritual light.
This is the process of self-revelation, interrelating the spiritual with the finite, and this is accomplished within the arena of supermind, the realm of the Holy Spirit. Within this realm cosmic mind gravity pulls on reality. Once discovered and recognized, reality is exposed for individual interpretation, the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster then go to work on it by the process of spiritization and interpretation of thought. And this process must be allowed by personality, which has the final say when it comes to reality choices. And as long as this process is not inhibited or resisted, the soul will grow in and of itself (117:3.6) Soul growth is the byproduct of self-revelation and soul growth contributes to growth of the Supreme.
Thanks Bonita, Mara, and Nigel….fascinating topic and discussion. So much to consider. I think that facts are important to reality recognition while truth is reality response – which includes discovery/discernment/recognition and then a behavioral or free will choice adjustment that is a result of experiential outcomes to the choices made, all while in the on-rushing current of choice and relationship and outcome intersections. The recognition of reality is the first step to cosmic citizenship and the primal connection to Diety, or a feeling of belonging within the reality, and that feeling should lead to reality response….which begins the process of soul growth, circle progress, and material attachment transcendence – transference of the seat of identity.
The fact-set presented in the UB is given to eliminate errors and reduce confusions by presenting both a picture of reality – the who’s, when’s, where’s, how’s, and why’s – of the cosmos that is source, history, and destiny of the each and the all – and the truths that are to be discovered and applied by our experience within that actual and factual reality – the results of free will choice. There are trillions of trillions of beings engaged in this experiential discovery of truth and each does so uniquely and personally and partially and progressively. There is a limited fact-set within reality but there is a limitless truth-set. And this, I think, is where the Supreme becomes a wild card that is not factual, but is factualizing (actualizing) – the universe reservoir of all truth experience of all creatures, high and low. But the Supreme is no mere repository or library of truths and the experiences of truth, but rather, the Diety that collates and integrates the truth experience of all, and then expresses and manifests that collective truth-set in a personalized, experiential wisdom that changes all sources of truth experience/realization still to come.
A feedback mechanism that is an ever enlarging loop, giving back to source (creature mind) an ever greater volume of truth, distilled and personalized, Dietized and actualized, changing the fact-set in profound ways – new reality and new potential created by choice and experience by every mind. This, I think, is a principal reason that truth is always partial and relative, truth itself is evolving….even Diety faces uncertainties and new sets of circumstances and outcomes for their endless experience of choice in this constant flux of prior choice outcomes and new potentials (this is not to suggest any uncertainties as to unltimate outcomes/destiny for our Paradise Parents but is meant to recognize the fluidity of evolutionary results in the Super Universes of time and space). So reality response requires the facts of reality to respond to but the response itself is the truth-journey within those reality facts.
But only on a new world and isolated worlds and only those where both rebellion and default have left the mortals of the sphere in utter darkness as to the facts of universe reality does this issue seem relevant. For the facts of universe reality are not otherwise unknown, even to mortals. So I am somewhat skeptical that any of the primary spirits of Mother, Father, Son are principally engaged in “fact recognition” (there are text books for that and we now have one) – but are, rather, primarily or exclusively engaged in reality “response” – the truths that can only be discovered by choice in a mind seeking spirit and able to discern the righteous effects from righteous cause (or in our tadpole infancies, the consequences of material attachments). Facts can be known but not lived while truth must be lived to be known. But the truth led life progresses most within a reality based set of facts. And so, our perspective is equally affected by both the facts known and truths real-ized in mind.
I may have strayed here far from relevancy and if so, apologies. Just reflections from reading the topic so far.
God the Supreme
(1278.1) 117:0.1 TO THE extent that we do the will of God in whatever universe station we may have our existence, in that measure the almighty potential of the Supreme becomes one step more actual. The will of God is the purpose of the First Source and Center as it is potentialized in the three Absolutes, personalized in the Eternal Son, conjoined for universe action in the Infinite Spirit, and eternalized in the everlasting patterns of Paradise. And God the Supreme is becoming the highest finite manifestation of the total will of God.
(1278.2) 117:0.2 If all grand universers should ever relatively achieve the full living of the will of God, then would the time-space creations be settled in light and life, and then would the Almighty, the deity potential of Supremacy, become factual in the emergence of the divine personality of God the Supreme.
(1278.3) 117:0.3 When an evolving mind becomes attuned to the circuits of cosmic mind, when an evolving universe becomes stabilized after the pattern of the central universe, when an advancing spirit contacts the united ministry of the Master Spirits, when an ascending mortal personality finally attunes to the divine leading of the indwelling Adjuster, then has the actuality of the Supreme become real by one more degree in the universes; then has the divinity of Supremacy advanced one more step toward cosmic realization.
(1278.4) 117:0.4 The parts and individuals of the grand universe evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme, while in turn the Supreme is the synthetic cumulative total of all grand universe evolution. From the mortal viewpoint both are evolutionary and experiential reciprocals.
1. Nature of the Supreme Being
(1278.5) 117:1.1 The Supreme is the beauty of physical harmony, the truth of intellectual meaning, and the goodness of spiritual value. He is the sweetness of true success and the joy of everlasting achievement. He is the oversoul of the grand universe, the consciousness of the finite cosmos, the completion of finite reality, and the personification of Creator-creature experience. Throughout all future eternity God the Supreme will voice the reality of volitional experience in the trinity relationships of Deity.
(1278.6) 117:1.2 In the persons of the Supreme Creators the Gods have descended from Paradise to the domains of time and space, there to create and to evolve creatures with Paradise-attainment capacity who can ascend thereto in quest of the Father. This universe procession of descending God-revealing Creators and ascending God-seeking creatures is revelatory of the Deity evolution of the Supreme, in whom both descenders and ascenders achieve mutuality of understanding, the discovery of eternal and universal brotherhood. The Supreme Being thus becomes the finite synthesis of the experience of the perfect-Creator cause and the perfecting-creature response.
. . . getting back to the three cosmic reality recognition responses . . . I think it’s important to remember what their purpose is. Their purpose is not to recognize facts on three different levels of reality, which is what I think Nigel is saying, although I admit that I could be wrong about that. Their purpose is to establish those relative relationships between energy and spirit “. . . which are suggestive of mutual kinship in eternity” (9:4.5). The cosmic mind accomplishes this task by the technique of self-revelation (16:6.10).
I think the “self-revelation” they are talking about pertains to the Infinite Spirit – the Infinite Spirit uses a technique of self-revelation. Here’s a bit about the Seven Master Spirits who are fundamental to this divine self-revelation . . . and on down the line to the lowest mind.23:1:1 [#1]Immediately following the creation of the Seven Spirits of the Havona Circuits the Infinite Spirit brought into being the vast corps of Solitary Messengers. There is no part of the universal creation which is pre-existent to the Solitary Messengers except Paradise and the Havona circuits; they have functioned throughout the grand universe from near eternity. They are fundamental to the divine technique of the Infinite Spirit for self–revelation to, and personal contact with, the far-flung creations of time and space.Human mind is the lowest mind of all.42:11:8 [#2]The higher the universe mind associated with any universe phenomenon, the more difficult it is for the lower types of mind to discover it. And since the mind of the universe mechanism is creative spirit-mind (even the mindedness of the Infinite), it can never be discovered or discerned by the lower-level minds of the universe, much less by the lowest mind of all, the human. The evolving animal mind, while naturally God-seeking, is not alone and of itself inherently God-knowing.
Those cosmic intuitions affirm in the human mind the objective validity of our experience in and with thing,s meaning and values (16:6:10), despite the lowness of the type of mind we are endowed with. These intuitions are a gift. Part of our circuitry. (Do circuits push or pull? Not sure. But I do think they are directional.) When these circuits are plugged in they elicit cosmic responses in people who evince reflective thinking, though we are informed that these intuitions always develop. Our friend Scott (I miss your voice Scott!) often reminds us about them.16:6:9 [#1]These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.. . . why rename the Holy Spirit the spirit of facts? If you have to fabricate another name for her, why not the spirit of divinity reality recognition?A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.The Holy Spirit does not explain the meaning of reality.For our mutual edification regarding reality:12:8:9 [#1]Though it is hardly possible for the mortal mind to comprehend the seven levels of relative cosmic reality, the human intellect should be able to grasp much of the meaning of three functioning levels of finite reality: [Matter, Mind, Spirit]To comprehend the Holy Spirit, we would need to study the nature of the Seven Master Spirits, who distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind. (9:4:3)34:6:6 [#2]The dead theory of even the highest religious doctrines is powerless to transform human character or to control mortal behavior. What the world of today needs is the truth which your teacher of old declared: “Not in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit.” The seed of theoretical truth is dead, the highest moral concepts without effect, unless and until the divine Spirit breathes upon the forms of truth and quickens the formulas of righteousness.36:5:16 [#2]The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.101:3:2 [#3]Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.I’m just sayin’ there’s more to the Holy Spirit. She is a Nebadon influence that “. . . functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality.” ( 103:0:1)117:5:8 [#3]And so it is with the spiritual circuits: Man utilizes these in his ascent through the universes, but he never possesses them as a part of his eternal personality. But these circuits of spiritual ministry, whether Spirit of Truth, Holy Spirit, or superuniverse spirit presences, are receptive and reactive to the emerging values in ascending personality, and these values are faithfully transmitted through the Sevenfold to the Supreme.Mara wrote:I think the “self-revelation” they are talking about pertains to the Infinite Spirit – the Infinite Spirit uses a technique of self-revelation.The Solitary Messengers take part in the self-revelaiton of the Infinite Spirit to the universes of time and space. They actually wrote several of the papers in the book. But that is not the self-revelation referred to when it comes to the function of the cosmic mind in relations to humans. The self-revelation technique referred to is a form of auto-revelation which requires the presence of the Adjuster (101:4.3).Mara wrote: Those cosmic intuitions affirm in the human mind the objective validity of our experience in and with thing,s meaning and values . . .But is that objective reality in the form of facts?Mara wrote: (Do circuits push or pull? Not sure. But I do think they are directional.)I was referring to the gravity response of the cosmic mind to reality as stated in the following quote. I think of this kind of gravity as pulling us toward Paradise.16:6.4 This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity.Mara wrote:To comprehend the Holy Spirit, we would need to study the nature of the Seven Master Spirits, who distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind. (9:4:3)
The Holy Spirit is not the cosmic mind. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the personal presence of the Creative Spirit or Divine Minister (36:5.16). The cosmic mind is impersonal (9:5,4), the Holy Spirit is personal. It is the personal Holy Spirit who enables the human mind to have access to the impersonal cosmic mind. Personal beings have difficulty accessing impersonal ministries without the assistance of a personal being (113:3.1; 113:3.5).Mara wrote: I’m just sayin’ there’s more to the Holy Spirit.Yeah, I agree. That’s why I wrote a book about it.I’m still thinking about this topic. I have a tremendous amount of catching up to do. I am neither a scientist nor a philosopher.Mara wrote: I’m still thinking about this topic.Me too. I was sincerely hoping for more input from others, especially Nigel since it is his topic.I thought you brought up something worth exploring when you mentioned that the 3 cosmic reality recognition responses (also called intuitions) are meant to confirm OBJECTIVE VALIDITY OF EXPERIENCE with things, meanings and values. I think it’s safe to assume that things concern facts on the causality level; meanings concern judgments on the duty level; and, values concern divinity on the worship level.I don’t think the reality recognition responses, alone and by themselves, give objective validity to experience. Personality has to be involved somewhere, there has to be a point of self-revelation, an aha moment where it all clicks together. And I think those moments only come when all three levels of reality recognition are coordinated and unified by personality in the experience of doing God’s will. This type of objective validity would resonate with the Supreme. I’ve been trying to think of a good example of this but haven’t come up with one yet. Still thinking . . . perhaps something from Jesus’ early life? Will ponder.
What about this quote?
127:3.15 Jesus possessed the ability effectively to mobilize all his powers of mind, soul, and body on the task immediately in hand. He could concentrate his deep-thinking mind on the one problem which he wished to solve, and this, in connection with his untiring <em style=”color: #000000;”>patience, enabled him serenely to endure the trials of a difficult mortal existence — to live as if he were “seeing Him who is invisible.
Mobilizing all the powers of mind, soul and body includes all three levels of reality recognition for the purpose of problem solving. Problem solving is what religious living is all about when you come right down to it, and religious living is learning about cosmic reality.
100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems.
We’re told that if we allow the soul powers of our personality to unify physical, mind and spirit systems we will find health, mental efficiency and happiness. This requires reality recognition followed by deep thinking on how to unify all three.
100:4.2 Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. . . . And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.
Deep thinking is necessary for psychic growth and psychic growth is necessary for circle mastery. The cosmic reality recognition responses are designed to help us with cosmic problem solving and I believe that unification of all three systems requires not only the human personality but the pre-personality of God as well.
What about this quote? 127:3.15 Jesus possessed the ability effectively to mobilize all his powers of mind, soul, and body. . . .
They tell us how Jesus problem-solves. In a way we re doing it too in trying to get to the bottom of those cosmic intuitions. Since they are intuitions, we might find the best we can do is hedge round about them, rather than put them under a microscope.
. . . the 3 cosmic reality recognition responses (also called intuitions) are meant to confirm OBJECTIVE VALIDITY OF EXPERIENCE with things, meanings and values.
Yesterday I focused on OBJECTIVE VALIDITY. It seems objective validity (look up Kant) proceeds from theoretical deduction, rather than observation or experience. Of course i don’t know if the revelators used Kant’s ideas. It’s counterpart is subjective validity which he says is based in the interpretation of experience. If the revelators are distinguishing objective validity in this manner, then these mind endowments are implaced prior to experience. They are ready at hand to help us once we decide to start to think about reality – things, meanings and values.
What I’m trying to say about objective validity is that in order for experience to be considered a reality (valid), it needs to undergo intelligent criticism and philosophic interpretation on all three levels. Regardless of what kind of experience it is, it cannot be real or valid if it is an isolated part of life. Even though mind, matter and spirit are all equally real, they are not of equal value to personality when it comes to progress, therefore reality needs to be integrated according to the problems at hand.
Intelligent criticism, philosophic interpretation, the deep thinking that Jesus did, are all ways to discover, recognize and interpret the value of these realities as they apply to the problems we all encounter in daily living. The problem can be a physical one like trying to make enough money to eat. The problem can be a moral one like whether or not to defend yourself when picked upon. The problem can be a spiritual one like how best to do God’s will. But all of those individual problems still need to be evaluated on all three levels of reality and not isolated by themselves if the solution is going to result in a balanced personality.
This is my feeble attempt at providing an example of how the cosmic intuitions or reality recognition responses work in real life. What makes this process objective and valid is that the final result can be acted out, it can be experienced, and it results in a level of soul satisfaction because it is true. I have thought of an example from my own life, but it is a long-winded tale which I don’t have time for today. Lots of visitors here this weekend – combination Labor Day and birthday festivities.
What I’m trying to say about objective validity. . . .
I do follow what you are saying about experience (I think ) in the way you describe problem solving via the discovery of, the recognition of, the interpretation of (including the intelligent criticism of the interpretation of), and the choosing of something to reach a resultant solution to the problem at hand. I agree, if I’ve got that right. Rodan had a lot to say about problem-solving and how to go about it. The a posteriori approach starts out with “discovery” of something/s (real or imagined) after the fact or experience.
According to my current line of thought, the three cosmic mind intuitions given to us are a priori , or prior to the discovery of something/s (real r imagined).
The cosmic mind is impersonal (9:5,4), [. . .]
My current thinking is that the intuitions are innate in humans, and prior to thinking about things, meanings and values. Each of us gets n individualized circuit of the impersonal cosmic mind, as bestowed by Micheal’s consort, the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit.9:5:4 [#1]Since the Third Person of Deity is the source of mind, it is quite natural that the evolutionary will creatures find it easier to form comprehensible concepts of the Infinite Spirit than they do of either the Eternal Son or the Universal Father. The reality of the Conjoint Creator is disclosed imperfectly in the very existence of human mind. The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.Since each of us gets and individualized circuit, which is also impersonal, I would guess that the cosmic intuitions of the cosmic mind are also impersonal. And as you point out, Bonita, in part . . .they need to be integrated, they need to be unified and they need to be made personal to the extent of the person’s capacity of receptivity allows, as well as the person is willing/able to go.Bonita wrote The cosmic reality recognition responses are designed to help us with cosmic problem solving and I believe that unification of all three systems requires not only the human personality but the pre-personality of God as well.
“I was sincerely hoping for more input from others, especially Nigel since it is his topic.”
Woops — I’ve always been a bit slow. Also like to savour the process of reflection.
Regarding physical, moral and spiritual problems, Bonita wrote:
“The problem can be a moral one like whether or not to defend yourself when picked upon.”
This makes me think of the cloud of value-laden facts surrounding such a situation: why are they picking on me? What outcomes can I expect if, by defending myself, I damage my attackers? Will my response to their attack affect their tendency to attack others in the future? What looks like a “moral problem” is truly drenched in a context of facts, and the more experienced and wise the mind, the more facts that mind will discern when evaluating various responses. Of course, too much time spent discerning, especially when faced with the sincerity and zeal of Islamic State, may reduce your opportunities for further discerning.
Getting back to that business of the meaning of facts, Bonita wrote:
“Facts are part of the material intellect, not the soul. Meanings are experienced within the soul by the personality and then expressed by the personality using the material intellect. […]”
Here I believe Bonita is describing her experience? Which is great — recall that on a normal world, young humans shift quite naturally into their soul. But what about the majority of us “7 billion souls-on-board” who do not yet have conscious access to such morontia resource? While our baby souls sleep on, how are we to evaluate our discoveries and relationships? The idea I’m poking and prodding here is that the Divine Minister, in her role as Holy Spirit, complements the work of Michael’s Spirit of Truth by helping us to recognise and interpret that which our adjutant minds discover. Such a preliminary role — of illuminating the meaning of facts — becomes redundant once we shift into our soul.
PS: way back, Bonita pointed out that “neither the Spirit of Fact, or the Spirit of Meanings and Facts, exist. There is no such being.” Bonita, please excuse me if you think I implied that there was. That phrase is meant, provocatively, in context, to describe one of the ways in which the Divine Minister of Nebadon serves her youngest ascenders.
“Another way to look at it is that fact is inflexible, uniform and represents quantity, whereas truth is flexible, interpretable and represents quality.”
Is not the “quality” of some thing, relationship or person one of the (transient or transcendent) “facts” associated with that thing, relationship or person? Maybe your current definition of fact is insufficient? Refer back to my earlier idea of fact as those things, in each domain, made actual.
“So reality response requires the facts of reality to respond to but the response itself is the truth-journey within those reality facts.”
You, Sir, have a way with words
Paper 65 offers illumination on the Adjutants:
(737.2) 65:6.2 There is original endowment of adaptation in living things and beings. In every living plant or animal cell, in every living organism — material or spiritual — there is an insatiable craving for the attainment of ever-increasing perfection of environmental adjustment, organismal adaptation, and augmented life realization. These interminable efforts of all living things evidence the existence within them of an innate striving for perfection.
On Mara’s point of circuitry: (738.6) 65:7.3 The seven adjutant spirits are more circuitlike than entitylike, and on ordinary worlds they are encircuited with other adjutant functionings throughout the local universe.
There appears to be significant overlapping of the Adjutants and some special difficulties related to plant and animal ministries/circuitry here due to multiple causes – I cannot tell if those lower mind obstacles permeate the Urantian mortal mind or not though.
(739.2) 65:7.6 The acquisition of the potential of the ability to learn from experience marks the beginning of the functioning of the adjutant spirits, and they function from the lowliest minds of primitive and invisible existences up to the highest types in the evolutionary scale of human beings. They are the source and pattern for the otherwise more or less mysterious behavior and incompletely understood quick reactions of mind to the material environment. Long must these faithful and always dependable influences carry forward their preliminary ministry before the animal mind attains the human levels of spirit receptivity.
(739.3) 65:7.7 The adjutants function exclusively in the evolution of experiencing mind up to the level of the sixth phase, the spirit of worship. At this level there occurs that inevitable overlapping of ministry — the phenomenon of the higher reaching down to co-ordinate with the lower in anticipation of subsequent attainment of advanced levels of development. And still additional spirit ministry accompanies the action of the seventh and last adjutant, the spirit of wisdom. Throughout the ministry of the spirit world the individual never experiences abrupt transitions of spirit co-operation; always are these changes gradual and reciprocal.
You, Sir, have a way with words Nigel
Me here: Thank you my friend. This is most difficult for me to follow but my nose is on your trail…..Nigel Nunn wrote: This makes me think of the cloud of value-laden facts surrounding such a situation: why are they picking on me? What outcomes can I expect if, by defending myself, I damage my attackers? Will my response to their attack affect their tendency to attack others in the future? What looks like a “moral problem” is truly drenched in a context of facts, and the more experienced and wise the mind, the more facts that mind will discern when evaluating various responses.
Why do you call these facts? Your examples of facts are merely imaginings of what might potentially happen as a result of a given behavior; they are ideas only and they could be erroneous. As a scientist you should know that dreaming up the results of an experiment before actually conducting it cannot create the facts. The experiment must be carried out, the results observed, documented and analyzed statistically before they become facts. Facts are observable things on the physical level of existence. Facts are observed by mind and interpreted by mind, but I don’t see how you can dream up facts without running into real mental trouble. For instance, the question, “Why are they picking on me?” is not a fact. It is a question that cannot be answered truthfully unless you engage the people picking on you and attempt to discover their motives. You can imagine their motives all you want but there’s no guarantee that you’re right without asking them and getting a response from the “horse’s mouth”. In the meantime all your dreamed up ideas may be horribly wrong and behavior based upon wrong ideas will be equally wrong . . . witness Judas. So, how is it that you can tell if your thinking is fact or fiction, or figment, as you call it?Nigel Nunn wrote: Here I believe Bonita is describing her experience?Actually, I was paraphrasing the two UB quotes below. Meanings are experienced in the “supermaterial spheres of human experience”, which is the soul. Facts are perceived by the material mind, which is not the soul.
111:4.2 Meanings are nonexistent in a wholly sensory or material world. Meanings and values are only perceived in the inner or supermaterial spheres of human experience.
130:4.10 The eye of the material mind perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world of true values. These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality, wherein wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of progressive personal experience.Nigel Nunn wrote:Refer back to my earlier idea of fact as those things, in each domain, made actual.I don’t see how that jives with your examples of fact at the beginning of your post. Are you saying that just asking those questions, imagining those thoughts about being picked on, just pondering ideas in the mind, is enough to make them actual or factual? What determines the reality of a thought then? Doesn’t a “real” thought require the Adjuster to reality-ize it (111:3.6)?And, what is the difference between factual and actual, factualize and actualize, factualization and actualization? I agree that facts are things, but what is it that makes a fact actual? Is it just a reaction of the thing with the cosmic mind that makes a fact actual? Is actual the same as reality then, or is factual the real reality? Doesn’t factualization precede actualization or is it vice versa? Doesn’t the making of something actual require the free-will choice of personality? How do you make choices without conscious options? Wouldn’t those options need to be factualized within one’s consciousness before the personality can make the choice to actualize? How does that happen, is it just thinking about them that does it? If so, then why aren’t all thoughts factual or actual?99:4.5 Purely factual knowledge exerts very little influence upon the average man unless it becomes emotionally activated. But the activation of religion is superemotional, unifying the entire human experience on transcendent levels through contact with, and release of, spiritual energies in the mortal life.
It seems like we’re now discussing variables, potentials, and the unforeseen outcomes/consequences of our personal insertion as another cause (choice) on outcome (effect) in some formula or calculus. We are taught that progress results from the balance of the quantity of choices made and the quality of choices made. To me, it is the quality discussed now – to discern probabilities and the radial effect created by choice – in consideration that there are many others’ also so choosing at the same time that affect the same outcomes. This will take much experience to discern. The Master was able to know what to do or say and when in ways that profoundly affected the results of so many others. Situational manipulation for a desired and specified outcome with a pure heart….tactical calculus.
Such discernment is far beyond a pure intent (innocent as doves) and goes to the very heart of wisdom (as wise as a serpent). And this experience-skill, I think, is affected by and derived from the agents of mind ministry we discuss….the circuitry fully engaged. It’s almost a form of what we might call clairvoyance – a knowing without personal knowledge in a way – an alignment of mind and will that opens the eye within to see the outcome before it happens and our role therein. The mind is a mighty vehicle if under full power and in tune – a very dangerous vehicle for the immature or those who think this comes only from and by themselves. The time unit perspective also plays a role here….to discern probabilities of that to come from prior results. Not choosing good over bad, but the best among the good and the least bad or best within the bad options apparently presented. There is a quality here that is far beyond “facts”.
Did Jesus feed the mob for the mob’s filled bellies and their adoration? Or to knowingly demonstrate the disappointment inherent in a ministry of miracles for the apostles/disciples to behold? Jesus acted with purpose. We must learn to do the same. Beyond motive is actual affect upon a chemistry in motion.
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