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Preliminary to the ordination of the twelve apostles, Jesus said the following:
140:1.6 And so shall this kingdom progress in the world until it shall break down every barrier and bring all men to know my Father and believe in the saving truth which I have come to declare. Even now is the kingdom at hand, and some of you will not die until you have seen the reign of God come in great power.
What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said that some of the twelve would not die until they had seen the reign of God come in great power?
I understand he knew there would be many sincere followers of his teachings. Obviously mountains didn’t move, the sun still rises in the east, and other material aspects remain, but in the hearts of people there is new desire to know a different Father, one different than their familiar teachings. Jesus did gain undesired attention because of creator prerogatives, but he did introduce new and dignifying concepts that attracted people. And, he probably had foreknowledge of Peter’s great oratorical skills. He probably had a lot more in mind than we know. He knew the potential of his teachings. The Apostle John was the youngest, a fact Jesus knew and in John’s lifetime a great many people in many countries had heard Jesus’ messages. Not all the Apostles would die early. Add all this up and we can see some of the power Jesus had in mind. We are reminded in the book his teachings are efficacious. He surely is aware of that fact!
Surely there are more details to address this good question.
Preliminary to the ordination of the twelve apostles, Jesus said the following:
140:1.6 And so shall this kingdom progress in the world until it shall break down every barrier and bring all men to know my Father and believe in the saving truth which I have come to declare. Even now is the kingdom at hand, and some of you will not die until you have seen the reign of God come in great power.
What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said that some of the twelve would not die until they had seen the reign of God come in great power?
Perhaps Jesus wasn’t referring to physical death. Perhaps he was alluding to the Apostles being allowed to witness the reign of God in great power at the time when Urantia reaches the stage of light and life – but from Havona or some other stop along their respective ascension paths. Remember, Jesus was looking at things from the perspective of eternity and from a Grand Universe scale.
Another thought: The Reign of God is not through human ecclesiastical authority. The Reign of God is through Spirit resources and it is reaction to the those forces helping us to recognize new relationships that people could see. The Jews and gentiles were not accustomed to hearing spiritually advanced teachings. They were witnessing a new power. Recall, the Revelators remind us the watchword of the cosmos is progress. There is power in the “pressure from above” that moves mankind forward. To us low ones, power is amazing!
More from ya’ll?
Really interesting replies everyone, and thanks for thinking about it. I can honestly say that I have no idea at all what Jesus meant. If it had to do with the many followers of his teaching, I don’t think it had anything to do with the Church as it was in those early times. Also, I doubt that it had anything to do with Peter’s oratory skills about Jesus since we’re told that he totally missed the boat with that one. And if he was talking about death on some higher celestial sphere . . . who dies there? Aren’t most people fused by then? And why would only some die?
So what is the reign of God exactly? Is that the same as the kingdom of God? And by seeing, does Jesus mean with human eyes or spiritual eyes?
I was just reviewing the twelve apostles, trying to find out when they all died. Most of them were dead by the 60’s. Only 4 survived beyond that: John Zebedee, Philip, Thomas and Simon Zelotes. What happened between 67 AD and 103 AD that would be considered as seeing the reign of God come in great power? Maybe he wasn’t talking about events on earth but maybe something happening in heaven in regards to earth?
- Andrew – 60 AD
- Peter – around 67 AD
- James Zebedee- 44 AD
- John Zebedee- 103 AD
- Philip – around 80 AD
- Nathaniel – unknown, possibly around 54 AD
- Matthew Levi- around 60 AD
- Thomas – 72 AD
- Alpheus twins – unknown
- Simon – unknown but lived until old and feeble
- Judas Iscariot – 30 AD
The kingdom of God is at hand.
Lose your life and you shall save it.
Some of you will not die before you are born again of the spirit.
So what is the reign of God exactly? Is that the same as the kingdom of God? And by seeing, does Jesus mean with human eyes or spiritual eyes?
Paper 170, section 4 is a good place to look for more I think, I do believe he was talking about God’s reign in believers’ lives, that some of the believers listening to him would feel that reign “in great power” for themselves before they died:
“Jesus never gave a precise definition of the kingdom. At one time he would discourse on one phase of the kingdom, and at another time he would discuss a different aspect of the brotherhood of God’s reign in the hearts of men. In the course of this Sabbath afternoon’s sermon Jesus noted no less than five phases, or epochs, of the kingdom, and they were:
1. The personal and inward experience of the spiritual life of the fellowship of the individual believer with God the Father.
2. The enlarging brotherhood of gospel believers, the social aspects of the enhanced morals and quickened ethics resulting from the reign of God’s spirit in the hearts of individual believers.
3. The supermortal brotherhood of invisible spiritual beings which prevails on earth and in heaven, the superhuman kingdom of God.
4. The prospect of the more perfect fulfillment of the will of God, the advance toward the dawn of a new social order in connection with improved spiritual living—the next age of man.
5. The kingdom in its fullness, the future spiritual age of light and life on earth.”
Pentecost and the coming of the Spirit of Truth happened in 30 AD. Everyone but Judas Iscariot was still alive at that time. Other things that happened between 60-100 AD is that all of the Synoptic Gospels were written; the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed; Nero started martyring believers; Paul of Tarsus and Philo of Alexandria began teaching.
92:5.13 Aside from Jesus, Paul of Tarsus and Philo of Alexandria were the greatest teachers of this era. Their concepts of religion have played a dominant part in the evolution of that faith which bears the name of Christ.
tas wrote: Paper 170, section 4 is a good place to look for more I think, I do believe he was talking about God’s reign in believers’ lives, that some of the believers listening to him would feel that reign “in great power” for themselves before they died:Good point Tas. So are you saying that it was the enlarging brotherhood of believers, the power that comes from greater numbers of individuals living the Gospel?
Paper 170, section 4 is a good place to look for more I think, I do believe he was talking about God’s reign in believers’ lives, that some of the believers listening to him would feel that reign “in great power” for themselves before they died: “Jesus never gave a precise definition of the kingdom. At one time he would discourse on one phase of the kingdom, and at another time he would discuss a different aspect of the brotherhood of God’s reign in the hearts of men. In the course of this Sabbath afternoon’s sermon Jesus noted no less than five phases, or epochs, of the kingdom, and they were: 1. The personal and inward experience of the spiritual life of the fellowship of the individual believer with God the Father. 2. The enlarging brotherhood of gospel believers, the social aspects of the enhanced morals and quickened ethics resulting from the reign of God’s spirit in the hearts of individual believers. 3. The supermortal brotherhood of invisible spiritual beings which prevails on earth and in heaven, the superhuman kingdom of God. 4. The prospect of the more perfect fulfillment of the will of God, the advance toward the dawn of a new social order in connection with improved spiritual living—the next age of man. 5. The kingdom in its fullness, the future spiritual age of light and life on earth.”
Very pithy, Tas.
Possibly the reference is to the ability to SEE that came after the spirit of Truth was poured out?
I agree nelsong. I see that you can SEE. Your an honest broker, brother.
2. The enlarging brotherhood of gospel believers, the social aspects of the enhanced morals and quickened ethics resulting from the reign of God’s spirit in the hearts of individual believers.
The more I think about it, the more this sounds right Tas. Jesus may have been referring to the enlarging brotherhood of gospel believers. By the turn of the first century there were small churches forming in almost every large city. At the time of the ordination, I don’t think any of the apostles could have foreseen that as Jesus did.
The more I think about it, the more this sounds right Tas.
I think nelsong is more correct than Tas. He SEES his way to being even pithier than Tas.
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