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Posts
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MidiChlorian wrote:I agree that Jesus was friendly, but that doesn’t mean that the universe is friendly, otherwise why would He have said that He had enemies?Those enemies are not the universe. They existed within the universe, at least temporarily, but they were not the universe. They were part of the evil we all have to deal with as evolutionary creatures living in the friendly universe . . . you know, the universe teeming with help, ministry and aid . . . all super friendly. That’s not hard to understand unless you can’t accept that two apparently divergent ideas can be true at the same time. The revelators do admit that humans have difficulty accepting this. Human mind wants God to be either this or that, but not this and that.MidiChlorian wrote: And, based on the teachings of Jesus as presented in the UB, and other text, I attempt to follow those teachings, and that part is easy to understand — right.
Huh?
Those enemies not the universe. They existed within the universe, at least temporarily, but they were not the universe. They were part of the evil we all have to deal with as evolutionary creatures living in the friendly universe . . . you know, the universe teeming with help, ministry and aid . . . all super friendly. That’s not hard to understand unless you can’t accept that two apparently divergent ideas can be true at the same time. The revelators do admit that humans have difficulty accepting this.
I’ll give you some leeway on the universe in general, however one must assume that the universe is made up of various material planets, constellations etc., and I will agree that depending on how one defines spirit entities, that for the most part they are friendly. However, the main issue that I have is with the overall attitude that those problem that are presently causing issues with this planet, are our problems to deal with and that only our association with the spirit from within can aid us in making positive changes. The idea that we need do nothing, stick our heads in the sand, and wait for another life after death only causes additional problems. In that if there is a specific conduct for survival and the same for non-survival and assuming that those who don’t survive and their patterns are absorbed by the Supreme, eventually the Supreme will be inherently become corrupted. Therefore, we need to work on getting our problems fixed so that things can get better not worse. As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it and even if these terrorist are systematically removed, there will always be others to step in to take their place. They use religion to manipulate and brainwash their recruits but have no religion, so turning the other cheek just get ones head lopped off. Yes, there are other reasons why there are problems like this, where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer because many of the rich profit from the business of terrorism, and wars, so that it could be said that there is no justice but for those who can afford it.
So, when someone wishes to draw attention to our human problems and how they might be resolved or helped by possibly using the Urantia Book as a guide, they are sanctioned for their concerns and told that there are no problems because this is a friendly universe. Jesus came to show us a way, but did not stay around to help guide us more, but His teachings can help use now, here, and not somewhere else in the universe in another life.
Some have ideas which do not always fall directly in line with the UB, but who in this universe said that we cannot talk about it, or even debate some of things which do not always apply directly with our present situations? No, that cannot be done because of WHY?
Many have talked about loyalty, but loyalty to whom, GOD? Okay, is it not His wish for us to be loyal to our brothers and sisters who are in need, not to mention their children as well. Far to many are calling for loyalty to God, and forsaking that mandate of brotherhood, Terrorist are killing people because they say they are loyal to their god, and that they will have a direct route to paradise, so are they more in line with the loyalty as is preached by some here and based on what is written in the Urantia Book? I think not? But, sometimes it sure seems that way when one cannot voice their opinion, without being told to go to hell. Well as I see it, we live in hell, and there is no other way out then to change it to something else, like The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
All very much to the point Midi. You have put a nice frame around the most important issues. Thank you. I’m going to look forward to a response from those whom you’ve addressed.
‘s diatribe requires such a lengthy response that I’ve decided to break it up into individual panels.
MidiChlorian wrote: The idea that we need do nothing, stick our heads in the sand, and wait for another life after death only causes additional problems.Is that what you think TUB is telling us to do? As I recall, the hole-digger in the parable was the guy who lost out big time. I can’t recall anything said in TUB that recommends waiting around for things to get better. In fact, we’re told that procrastination is one of those “pet evils” we’re supposed to let go of. TUB informs us that procrastination is an animal trait that must be eliminated, as is using time postponement as a means of reality avoidance. Problem avoidance is reality avoidance and it just doesn’t fly. So, as far as I’m concerned, you’re complaining about something that doesn’t exist.
48:5.8 One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.
166:3.4 “But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness: Having refused to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience, they may subsequently seek entrance thereto when the glory of the better way becomes revealed in the age to come. And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut. This door is not open to those who would enter the kingdom for selfish glory. Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father’s will.
If anything, TUB explains that reality avoidance is a form of magical thinking, a lazy man’s way to avoid effort. Effort and work are the keywords to growth and progress, and progress is the watchword of the universe. We’re told that only slothful animals rebel against the effort and work of problem solving.
4:1.2 Can you not advance in your concept of God’s dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man’s mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.
100:4.2 Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.
Therefore, we need to work on getting our problems fixed so that things can get better not worse. As it is, there is no information in the UB which addresses terrorism as we know it and even if these terrorist are systematically removed, there will always be others to step in to take their place. They use religion to manipulate and brainwash their recruits but have no religion, so turning the other cheek just get ones head lopped off. Yes, there are other reasons why there are problems like this, where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer because many of the rich profit from the business of terrorism, and wars, so that it could be said that there is no justice but for those who can afford it.
So, when someone wishes to draw attention to our human problems and how they might be resolved or helped by possibly using the Urantia Book as a guide, they are sanctioned for their concerns and told that there are no problems because this is a friendly universe. Jesus came to show us a way, but did not stay around to help guide us more, but His teachings can help use now, here, and not somewhere else in the universe in another life.
Midi,
Anyone who looks to The Urantia Book for help with terrorism and other social dysfunctions is bound to be disappointed. TUB is intended as a spiritual roadmap, not a solution to all our social, political and economic ills.
167:5.6 (1839.3) It was very difficult for the apostles to understand the Master’s reluctance to make positive pronouncements relative to scientific, social, economic, and political problems. They did not fully realize that his earth mission was exclusively concerned with revelations of spiritual and religious truths.
MidiChlorian wrote: In that if there is a specific conduct for survival and the same for non-survival and assuming that those who don’t survive and their patterns are absorbed by the Supreme, eventually the Supreme will be inherently become corrupted.The only thing absorbed by the Supreme is the personality (2:3.4). Personality is non-corruptible. Personality is a divine pattern directly from the Paradise Father. Personality never changes, it therefore cannot be corrupted. No matter what you do with your personality, the personality itself never becomes corrupted by it. Personality remains unaltered regardless of what you decide to do with it. Perhaps you’re thinking about character. Character is not personality. Character is something you grow with your personality. Character changes, but personality never changes. Therefore, personality patterns absorbed by the Supreme are pure and uncorrupted just as they were when they arrived from the Paradise Father.
112:01 And throughout all of these successive ages and stages of evolutionary growth, there is one part of you that remains absolutely unaltered, and that is personality – permanence in the presence of change.
0:5.11 Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.
112:0.9 7. Personality is changeless in the presence of change.
112:0.15 Personality may survive mortal death with identity in the surviving soul. The Adjuster and the personality are changeless; the relationship between them (in the soul) is nothing but change, continuing evolution; and if this change or growth ceased, the soul would cease.
140:4.7 “By their fruits you shall know them.” Personality is basically changeless; that which changes – grows – is the moral character.
The Supreme cannot become corrupted. That’s like saying God the Father can be corrupted. The Supreme can only become time-delayed, but that is not a corruption, it is time allowed for compensational experience.
117:4.2 But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.
MidiChlorian wrote: However, the main issue that I have is with the overall attitude that those problem that are presently causing issues with this planet, are our problems to deal with and that only our association with the spirit from within can aid us in making positive changes.We all agree that the best way to solve problems is God’s way. That would be God’s will, right? How else do you discover God’s will except by associating with the Spirit within, as you say? Where else are you planning to get this information from? Anything you dream up on your own without God, is evil. Oh, it may look good to you, but the kingdom of good is not the same as the kingdom of God, not even close. One is man-made, man-directed humanism, the other is all about God’s way. Which is better?
It’s our responsibility to work on our problems and solve them in according to universe attunement. How do we arrive at universe attunement? Through Adjuster attunement. The Adjusters are the hope for advancing civilization. If we stop heeding our Adjusters, if they should suddenly leave, civilization will regress to primitive times.
109:4.4 The indwelling Adjusters have in no small measure co-operated with other spiritual influences in transforming and humanizing the descendants of the primitive men of olden ages. If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly returnto many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.
We are told that the only way to elevate the social stream is through spiritual idealism. Where do we find spiritual idealism? Ideals are values provided by the Adjuster. They await as potentials in our souls. Our purpose is to discover, recognize, interpret and choose them. How do we do that? By spiritual insight. What is spiritual insight? It is God-consciousness. Where is God that we can become conscious of him. IN OUR HEADS!
81.6.27 Ideals elevate the source of the social stream. And no stream will rise any higher than its source no matter what technique of pressure or directional control may be employed. The driving power of even the most material aspects of a cultural civilization is resident in the least material of society’s achievements. Intelligence may control the mechanism of civilization, wisdom may direct it, but spiritual idealism is the energy which really uplifts and advances human culture from one level of attainment to another.
We’re also told that it is necessary to seek FIRST the realities of heaven when attempting to improve society. How do we find the realities of heaven? Where are they? They’re with the Adjuster. The Adjuster is in possession of all those realities. Gotta get to know God FIRST, then apply what you discovered from your relationship with him to the world’s problems. It’s God’s universe. It’s God’s will. It’s all about God FIRST.
195:5.1 The twentieth century has brought new problems for Christianity and all other religions to solve. The higher a civilization climbs, the more necessitous becomes the duty to “seek first the realities of heaven” in all of man’s efforts to stabilize society and facilitate the solution of its material problems.
MidiChlorian wrote: So, when someone wishes to draw attention to our human problems and how they might be resolved or helped by possibly using the Urantia Book as a guide, they are sanctioned for their concerns and told that there are no problems because this is a friendly universe.I have never read anything in TUB or on this forum stating there are no problems in the universe. That is illogical. Of course there are problems and TUB exhausts a lot of ink explaining what they are. That does not change the fact that the universe is friendly. Friends can have legitimate problems and solve them in friendly ways. Problem solving is one of the things the universes of time and space are designed to accomplish.Don’t forget that God and the universe are not identical. One is cause, the other effect. God is perfect in every way. The universes of time and space are perfecting . . . nowhere near perfect. In fact, the universes of time and space will never be perfect; they will be perfected. Big difference. Perfected from what? From all the problems of imperfection.Perfecting means problem solving. There has to be problems, otherwise there’s nothing to do, no reason for experience. These are experiential worlds we live on, filled with problems. There are physical problems, administrative problems, mental problems and spiritual problems . . . all which need friendly solutions. The Universe is organized and peopled by congenial, affable, affectionate and merciful ministries and ministers, which means that universe problems are solved in a congenial, affable, affectionate and merciful way. It’s our job to learn how to approach our problems in the same way . . . rather than lopping off heads. So, studying TUB is an excellent way to see how our superiors go about problem solving and then strive to apply those same principles to our own problems, large and small. In the meantime the universe remains supportive (friendly) to all our efforts to arrive at the best solutions to all our problems.102:7.1 The universe and God are not identical; one is cause, the other effect. The cause is absolute, infinite, eternal, and changeless; the effect, time-space and transcendental but ever changing, always growing.MidiChlorian wrote:Jesus came to show us a way, but did not stay around to help guide us more, but His teachings can help use now, here, and not somewhere else in the universe in another life.I’m sorry, but that is a complete falsehood. I’m not going to mince words about it. You’re wrong!Jesus is still around to guide us. He never left, only his body left. He sent his Spirit of Truth, the “new teacher,” to teach us individually. Each person has one-on-one time with him, right now, this instant, to learn as much as they want. And furthermore, the Spirit of Truth stays with each of us all the way through our ascension career. So everything you said in that sentence is completely wrong according to TUB, not to mention personal experience.Perhaps you should reread Jesus’ actual words describing the Spirit of Truth? The Alpheus twins had trouble understanding how they would recognize the Master when he was no longer a physical person, but a spirit. Jesus explained it to them (who weren’t the brightest bulbs in the pack). He said the new teacher would be just like he is in the flesh but without the body. That means his personality and his character are available, right now, this very instant, for anyone to talk to. He listens; he cares; he teaches; he guides the WAY; he IS the WAY; he loves; and above all else, he doesn’t abandon you until you are delivered to the Father on Paradise. He is the WAY to Paradise.180:4.5 Jesus looked down upon them all, smiled, and said: “My little children, I am going away, going back to my Father. In a little while you will not see me as you do here, as flesh and blood. In a very short time I am going to send you my spirit, just like me except for this material body. This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you.”
117:5.9 While such spiritual influences as the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth are local universe ministrations, their guidance is not wholly confined to the geographic limitations of a given local creation. As the ascending mortal passes beyond the boundaries of his local universe of origin, he is not entirely deprived of the ministry of the Spirit of Truth which has so constantly taught and guided him through the philosophic mazes of the material and morontial worlds, in every crisis of ascension unfailingly directing the Paradise pilgrim, ever saying: “This is the way.” When you leave the domains of the local universe, through the ministry of the spirit of the emerging Supreme Being and through the provisions of superuniverse reflectivity, you will still be guided in your Paradise ascent by the comforting directive spirit of the Paradise bestowal Sons of God.
7:7.4 The Father comes down to you as a personality only through the divine Sons of the Eternal Son. And you attain the Father by this same living way; you ascend to the Father by the guidance of this group of divine Sons. And this remains true notwithstanding that your very personality is a direct bestowal of the Universal Father.
21:6.4 Just as the Deity of the Supreme is actualizing by virtue of experiential service, so are the Creator Sons achieving the personal realization of the Paradise-divinity potentials bound up in their unfathomable natures. When on Urantia, Christ Michael once said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” And we believe that in eternity the Michaels are literally destined to be “the way, the truth, and the life,” ever blazing the path for all universe personalities as it leads from supreme divinity through ultimate absonity to eternal deity finality.
MidiChlorian wrote: Some have ideas which do not always fall directly in line with the UB, but who in this universe said that we cannot talk about it, or even debate some of things which do not always apply directly with our present situations? No, that cannot be done because of WHY?Because this is a TUB forum, paid for and supported by people who want to study TUB. Non-UB topics are best discussed elsewhere, including terrorism. That doesn’t mean such discussions are not worthwhile, it means they have no business being discussed here. Start your own forum maybe?And above else, stop whining. It’s tiresome. Constant complaining that no one listens to you makes them want to listen less.
MidiChlorian wrote: The idea that we need do nothing, stick our heads in the sand, and wait for another life after death only causes additional problems.
Is that what you think TUB is telling us to do?
No, it would seem that you think that I present this because I am against what TUB is presenting. In actuality it is what others seem to present as their attitude, by their remarks, based on their understanding of the context in the UB, which I am referring too. In essence, it would appear that they are defending what they think TUB is presenting by their insistence that the universe is friendly, then so is the atmosphere here on Earth, friendly — thereby, portraying that we need do nothing but wait, to start the adventure, in the life after death.
It has nothing to do with what the UB is presenting, only the dogmatic attitude which some have or are taking from what their understanding is, of what they believe their personal mission is, or is not. Based on what they think, that the UB or spirits are telling them to do, or how to think. Responses, or statements that imply that the UB says what it says, and doesn’t say what it doesn’t, implies that those individuals who present other religious concepts or ideas, are beneath that which has been presented in TUB, as assessed by the confronter using that type of response or statement.
However, the main issue that I have is with the overall attitude that those problem that are presently causing issues with this planet, are our problems to deal with and that only our association with the spirit from within can aid us in making positive changes. The idea that we need do nothing, stick our heads in the sand, and wait for another life after death only causes additional problems….
So, when someone wishes to draw attention to our human problems and how they might be resolved or helped by possibly using the Urantia Book as a guide, they are sanctioned for their concerns and told that there are no problems because this is a friendly universe. Jesus came to show us a way, but did not stay around to help guide us more, but His teachings can help use now, here, and not somewhere else in the universe in another life….
But, sometimes it sure seems that way when one cannot voice their opinion, without being told to go to hell. Well as I see it, we live in hell, and there is no other way out then to change it to something else, like The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth….Whose idea is it “that we need do nothing”….”and wait”? Who believes THAT??!! Who has said THAT??!! Ever?! The Papers directly contradict all such notions/ideas/beliefs. And who has “sanctioned” you for your concerns about your brothers and sisters and our world? Or told you to go to hell?
I think the problem is the UB does not say what you want to hear. Your misunderstanding of its contents and your persistence in misstating, misrepresenting, and tormenting of the Papers is another….like your claim of the corruptibility of the Supreme as but the latest example….and alternate universes…and corruptible “sub-creators”….universes “which may not be real”….”multiple realities” – etc., etc.
But I am glad you hope to find answers to your concerns in the teachings of the 4th and 5th epochals. So far, you do not seem to have found those answers….no matter how much supporting text is offered. But I am very happy to keep supporting your quest to understand the teachings of the Papers and Michael/Jesus.
Perhaps though we might keep on topic? Rather than making false accusations against others and introducing your opinions on terrorism, might we focus on the Kingdom of Heaven here and you could begin a new conversation of any topic you wish.
Thinking about the times of Jesus…I find many similarities to today in the many forms of crisis in his time, don’t you? Living under the boot heel of a occupation force which brutalized the population literally and by severe taxation. And the priests with their death grip of falsehood and total control over the daily lives of people. Jesus suffered great tragedy and loss personally. His family was taxed into abject poverty until he reached an age and skill set that he could overcome this relentless pressure from the state and the priests. He was chased and hounded by those who wished him dead…ASAP. He entered Jerusalem that last time knowing his likely end by mob or by cross.
And what was his demeanor? And what did he teach? So glad you wish to learn by his example and teachings Midi. I look forward to that.
It has nothing to do with what the UB is presenting, only the dogmatic attitude which some have or are taking from what their understanding is, of what they believe their personal mission is, or is not. Based on what they think, that the UB or spirits are telling them to do, or how to think. Responses, or statements that imply that the UB says what it says, and doesn’t say what it doesn’t, implies that those individuals who present other religious concepts or ideas, are beneath that which has been presented in TUB, as assessed by the confronter using that type of response or statement.
Midi…as students of the UB at a UB study group and discussion site….what the UB says and does not say is the foundation of such study and discussion. Sorry you find that demeaning or disappointing. We’re not here to discuss “other religious concepts or ideas”….except to explore the contrasts and the agreements between all of those and the Papers!
You consistently contradict the text in your personal claims….and then howl whenever the contradictions are pointed out. Tough. It will continue. Count on it. It is not being unfriendly or dogmatic to study, quote, discuss, and seek understanding of what the UB says or does not say. It was given to reduce such confusions and eliminate such errors as you so often present here for our mutual exploration and illumination.
We’re here to discuss the contents of the book Midi. I hope you find a way to embrace the reality of what a study group is. Best wishes.
We all agree that the best way to solve problems is God’s way. That would be God’s will, right? How else do you discover God’s will except by associating with the Spirit within, as you say?
The spirit from within is a guide, or a pilot, to God’s will. How one uses or assumes what this spirit is directing them to do, does not always represent God’s will. If one misinterprets this guidance, and acts against God’s will or way, is that action still God’s will?
It is easier to say that, this or that, is God’s will, but through personal religion experience, attempting to perform God’s will, should be the evaluator, possibly through trial and error. It is difficult to assess God’s will, until after the fact — cause and effect.
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