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I thought it best to approach the problem of understanding the revealed concept of spiritual insight by dealing first with the revealed concepts of material and moral insight.
At level-3 (spiritual insight) we are given the power to discover not just facts but spiritual truth, not just right but goodness, not just utility but beauty and harmony of purpose. The three spiritual values are the ‘stuff’ of spiritual insight as far as it is attainable to finite mortals I think.
From the first two levels of insight we ascertain the meaning of things as forces, of acts as right or wrong. But from this perspective alone our decisions can take an unspiritual direction. How? We can rush off to utilize force in the interest of everything we perceive to be right.
Many would say, of course, why not? bring in the Kingdom, etc.
I suggest that it is only by spiritual insight that we recognize error in such cases, and the truth and spirituality of the proposition “Might does not make right.”
I’m taking a chance here. The extra-ethical and spiritual nature of this truth has only recently dawned on me and I’m still considering. Someone will perhaps argue that I am still at the level of moral consciousness. But in my current view I would argue no, in this case I believe we are talking about an actual spiritual truth.
I would also argue that the spirituality of this principle is evidenced by the fact that it best characterizes the TA’s relations with human personality – Even though the Adjuster stands for all goodness in the universe, it does not coerce. It is silent as a lamb, gently persuading or admonishing, because it is a living representative of the very source of this spiritual truth, that might does not make right. That right need not use might. It fits the life and career of Jesus as well.
Not every wise old saying is a spiritual insight. But there are lots of spiritual truths available to us through the cultivation of this third insight into meaning and value. All such spiritual insights only glimmer briefly at first, they all sound a little odd to human mind at first. We tend to think of dozens of reasons why they can’t always be true, why they must be qualified or conditioned by circumstances.
One of the other points I was trying to make in this thread was that morality can be spiritual. Or it can be merely unspiritual. I didn’t really get a chance to give quotes to defend this position.
(40.6) 2:6.2 Religion implies that the superworld of spirit nature is cognizant of, and responsive to, the fundamental needs of the human world. Evolutionary religion may become ethical, but only revealed religion becomes truly and spiritually moral. The olden concept that God is a Deity dominated by kingly morality was upstepped by Jesus to that affectionately touching level of intimate family morality of the parent-child relationship, than which there is none more tender and beautiful in mortal experience.
(2096.3) 196:3.27 Morality is not necessarily spiritual; it may be wholly and purely human, albeit real religion enhances all moral values, makes them more meaningful. Morality without religion fails to reveal ultimate goodness, and it also fails to provide for the survival of even its own moral values. Religion provides for the enhancement, glorification, and assured survival of everything morality recognizes and approves.
Interesting Reader. I confess that I’m not following exactly, but that’s probably my fault. Isn’t “might does not make right” a statement about human ethics? Are you saying that there is a spiritual meaning in that aphorism that will be recognized by the cosmic mind reality recognition response once it is processed by the soul and given spiritual meaning through experience?
I’m wondering what the spiritual meaning would be. Perhaps it is the recognition that using soul powers instead of physical or mental powers in the pursuit of what is truly right is what God intends. I’ve been under the impression that only the Adjuster knows what is truly right, so the use of soul powers in the pursuit of doing what is truly right would simply mean doing God’s will. Right?
I do believe that there is a full continuum of moral consciousness ranging from human to divine. Jesus gave us six levels to the golden rule, the last being the spiritual level, the level of fatherly love. Spiritual insight is “seeing” God’s nature and choosing to be like him. It involves much more than the cosmic mind and its intuitions, it involves the soul which is morontial. I believe that seeing others as God sees them is what makes it possible to live the spiritual level of the golden rule.
52:6.5 Only moral beings will ever seek for that spiritual insight which is essential to living the golden rule.
I think that our moral nature can potentially be augmented by spiritual insight, and that it becomes spiritual because spirit-faith encompasses our entire consciousness. Instead of just looking for value, we can look for moral values. I know I talk a lot about a moral and philosophical consciousness, but I don’t want to make it look like I am suggesting something that negates genuine religion and spirituality. IMO the 2 can become binded together.
(2096.3) 196:3.27 Morality is not necessarily spiritual; it may be wholly and purely human, albeit real religion enhances all moral values, makes them more meaningful. Morality without religion fails to reveal ultimate goodness, and it also fails to provide for the survival of even its own moral values. Religion provides for the enhancement, glorification, and assured survival of everything morality recognizes and approves.
The way the authors talk about morality and religion it seems to me that the 2 fit together like peanut butter and jam.
Bonita, you ask: Isn’t “might does not make right” a statement about human ethics?
I think it is one of the principles underlying the best worship-response available to us in most human situations. It implies the kind of higher ethics which cannot manifest without spiritual insight into the Father’s nature (comprehensible to finites only by recognition and appreciation of spirit values – truth, beauty, goodness). I am addressing only the three categories of insight on p.192. It may be that you are ranging further in the text.
These words, might and right represent the first two realms of reality-response. level-1 material insight (which yields increasing personality powers over material reality – force, i.e. “might”) and level-2 moral insight (which discerns only the better choice for identification between any two alternate paths – relative “right” vs. wrong). The statement is in the form of a negation, implying that only a third level of reality (spirit) can provide the ultimate synthesis between the two.
You also ask: Are you saying that there is a spiritual meaning in that aphorism that will be recognized by the cosmic mind reality recognition response once it is processed by the soul and given spiritual meaning through experience?
The structure of this question is hard for me to follow. I am very sure you have a text somewhere in support of each phrase, but I don’t see them hanging together quite rightly. I see the word meaning used twice, but no mention of value. I think spirit values are the sole carrier of reality in this higher realm (for us finites).
Not to discount the importance of meanings, I wouldn’t mind helping you unpack the thesis behind this question in terms of everyday language.
-Reader
Bonita, I think the example of the six levels of the golden rule is excellent in this context. That sixth level is really above what you call ‘human ethics,’ and it is this ‘above ethics’ that I am talking about in this third level of insight.
We need the same higher insight to get the most out of the Sermon on the Mount also.
-Reader.
You can bring a moral nature up to the 6th level of meaning, (the level of genuine spiritual love.) You don’t actually leave that behind. A higher form of morality is also a awareness of relativity between persons (112:0.11), at the spiritual level it’s more then just a subjective right and wrong detector. It’s an actual objective insight into right and wrong. It’s also an insight into the relativity between people. That mere unspiritual morality can turn into a spiritually cosmic form of morality.
Jesus came and upstepped morality to a spiritual level (2:6.2). The morality they are talking about in that quote far surpasses that crude sense of moral duty.
When spiritual love takes hold in our minds it will IMO fill our entire moral consciousness. Our entire mindal domain will be bathed in it IMO.
Reader wrote: These words, might and right represent the first two realms of reality-response. level-1 material insight (which yields increasing personality powers over material reality – force, i.e. “might”)Maybe so, I don’t know. The first level is about causation. My level-1 reality recognition response to “might doesn’t make right” would be the recognition of the reality that I cannot force a 2 inch peg into a 1 inch hole by might; it would never be “right”. That is a fact. Science and math are about facts. The first reality I would recognize would be the difference between this fact/nonfact relationship.
Reader wrote: . . . and level-2 moral insight (which discerns only the better choice for identification between any two alternate paths – relative “right” vs. wrong).Level-2 is about morality and judgment. My level-2 reality recognition response would be to recognize that although I beat my child in order to get the behavior I desired, I could not bear to see the suffering I inflicted. I would recognize that I love my child more than the desired behavior. This is a moral issue, jeopardizing the welfare of another individual in order to satisfy my own needs and desires. As you say, I would recognize the better choice between two alternate paths.
Reader wrote: The statement is in the form of a negation, implying that only a third level of reality (spirit) can provide the ultimate synthesis between the two.Yes, and this third level I began to explain in that paragraph you say is confusing. Level-3 is worship. My level-3 reality recognition response to “might does not make right” would occur because of my personal fellowship with God. I would recognize that God loves me and all people, which means I would want to be like him and use the power of my personality free-will choice to bear the fruits of fatherly love. This level of reality recognition can only occur on the soul level because that is where we fellowship with God.Reader wrote: I see the word meaning used twice, but no mention of value.The reality recognition response on level-3 is the worship level of the soul. (Worship is the province of the soul.) A reality worth recognizing at the soul level would be value. But value must be given meaning by experience. Recognizing value is step two of discover, recognize, interprate and choose. After recognition, value would have to be interpreted (related) and then chosen by the personality for actualization in real life situations, (decision making).Have I made myself any clearer?TUB wrote: That mere unspiritual morality can turn into a spiritually cosmic form of morality.Isn’t cosmic morality the same as appreciation of cosmic citizenship and awareness of one’s obligation to the Supreme? Cosmic morality comes with increasing circle mastery.110:3.10 Joyful acceptance of cosmic citizenship — honest recognition of your progressive obligations to the Supreme Being, awareness of the interdependence of evolutionary man and evolving Deity. This is the birth of cosmic morality and the dawning realization of universal duty.117:4.8 The temporal relation of man to the Supreme is the foundation for cosmic morality, the universal sensitivity to, and acceptance of, duty. This is a morality which transcends the temporal sense of relative right and wrong; it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature’s appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity.Interesting Reader. I confess that I’m not following exactly, but that’s probably my fault. Isn’t “might does not make right” a statement about human ethics? Are you saying that there is a spiritual meaning in that aphorism that will be recognized by the cosmic mind reality recognition response once it is processed by the soul and given spiritual meaning through experience?
Me here: I would agree that “might does not make right” has a great moral foundation similar to “the end does not justify the means” is a moral insight as well. Jesus exemplified these universal truths I think. Even cleverness and deceptions are not to be used in God’s “Way”. Many have been “converted” by might and much evil has resulted from believing the end justifies all means.
The first time I read those words in the Arthurian tales, my soul sang and soared in response.
Bradly wrote: Many have been “converted” by might and much evil has resulted from believing the end justifies all means.Isn’t that due to a breakdown in interpretation and intention of choice (discover, recognize interpret and choose)? Those who wish to convert have discovered and recognized something they believe has value. Being motivated within their souls to interpret that value , they interpret it erroneously to mean that it should have the same exact value and meaning for everyone. The intention is then to convert through force because that is the only way to get another person to adopt your personal interpretation of value. The ends don’t work because the means are not true. Each person must come to their own interpretation with help from the Spirit of Truth.I would say that it represents a breakdown at the moral level-2. Forcing (might) a personal need or desire upon another person because it is deemed “right,” when it actually is a misinterpretation of reality, an error. And error is evil, impartial or incomplete understanding, a misinterpretation of a recognized reality, a maladjustment to reality.67:1.4 Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities.I thought it best to approach the problem of understanding the revealed concept of spiritual insight by dealing first with the revealed concepts of material and moral insight.
Bonita – my point is simple agreement with Reader’s assertion that it takes moral insight, I would argue actual Spirit insight/intuition to come to realize these truths – material power cannot make “right” or rightness or righteousness and the end, no matter how righteous itself, can never justify the unrighteous means to attain it. This is far beyond ethics….or even morals IMO.
Bradly wrote: Bonita – my point is simple agreement with Reader’s assertion that it takes moral insight, I would argue actual Spirit insight/intuition to come to realize these truthsThat’s my point too. Interpretation is a soul function made possible by the Spirit of Truth (all about relations, remember?). A failure at that level would not allow the mind to realize level-3. Stuck at level-2 it becomes a misinterpretation of the true meaning of right and wrong. I’m talking about the process within the mind and soul. Isn’t this topic about personality association with the cosmic mind and its relation to spiritual insight? I keep trying to explain how it works but I don’t think anyone understands or believes me.When it comes to insight, all a personality can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose (196:3.10). We do these same steps on all three levels of universe reality. The reality recognition response of the cosmic mind on each level of reality is the “recognize” part of discover, recognize, interpret and choose. When all three levels of reality are discovered, recognized, interpreted and chosen, they become unified and part of a strong, stable character. If there is a failure at any level, the result is disproportionality due to the unrelatedness of their respective functions. Disproportion results in instability and error. It’s impartial adaptation to reality recognition, a failure to unify all three levels of reality, and that is imperfection, failure to be perfected.The reality recognition response of the cosmic mind on each level of reality is the “recognize” part of discover, recognize, interpret and choose. When all three levels of reality are discovered, recognized, interpreted and chosen, they become unified and part of a strong, stable character. If there is a failure at any level, the result is disproportionality due to the unrelatedness of their respective functions. Disproportion results in instability and error. It’s impartial adaptation to reality recognition, a failure to unify all three levels of reality, and that is imperfection, failure to be perfected.
For my part Bonita, I assure you that disbelief is not an issue for me, but my inability to understand much is legendary, and I appreciate the patience you and Reader both extend to me and those of us who are challenged intellectually to grasp some concepts and relationships. I’ve never allowed my apparent ignorance or blindness to get in the way of my curiosity and desire to transcend both. Though humble, I have courage enough to not fear appearing either ignorant or even foolish to pursue and gain knowledge and truth.
Spiritual insight began for me in the study of the universal and original law of karma – the law of cause (choice) and effect (result). This law of reciprocity has been diminished over time to represent material outcomes too often. The result of choice is mindal and spiritual – either progressively or regressively. Choice has effect – immediate and lasting effect – in-mind. We are the result of our choices. This is neither ethical or moral and requires an insight that is not material minded in source but, rather, spiritual insight – recognition/discernment and then the application of will to choose according to this insight of universal truth – which has no material source or demonstration.
I have long characterized choices in 4 distinct categories to guide my decisions in all things:
1. Do the right thing for the right reason.
2. Do the wrong thing but for the right reason.
3. Do the right thing but for the wrong reason.
4. Do the wrong thing and for the wrong reason.
These are the mortal mind choice options. Jesus demonstrated the ultimate choice option: Do the best thing for the best reason. Something for ascenders to aspire to but not something we have the ability to achieve without far more experience, wisdom, and I think, fusion with TA, and maybe not even until Finality.
Reader’s position on might does not make right is a recognition of the inferiority of #2 and the superiority of #1 and also demonstrates the reality that no end justifies any means – it is the means that results in the end. This is quite insightful and on a non-material level. And I agree such truth comes by many circuits – all spiritual.
Bradly wrote: . . . no end justifies any meansIsn’t it also about ascending levels of cosmic wisdom . . . learning what ends are worth striving for and which means are appropriate for the situation? Animals do that by trial and error; but because of insight, humans can think about cause and effect before acting. This is a mind process, assisted by the cosmic mind in conjunction with the spirit presence within the mind. Isn’t it about selective discrimination which allows for the identification of superior ends? Once identified, discovering the highest level of morality with which to attain those ends becomes the goal. And wouldn’t that always come down to doing God’s will?146:2.14 Jesus taught that the prayer for divine guidance over the pathway of earthly life was next in importance to the petition for a knowledge of the Father’s will. In reality this means a prayer for divine wisdom.
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