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So your left with a very complex and highly functioning animal.
Nuh uh. You’re left with a human being behaving (functioning) like an animal. It doesn’t make the person an animal. It’s just his/her behavior that is at the animal level. Big difference. A human being behaving badly is still a human being and human beings are superanimals, some of whom are trying desperately to become superhumans.
There are many levels of morality just as there are many levels to the golden rule. And haven’t you known people who in certain circumstances behave very badly yet in other circumstances shine like saints? (think Mafia)
Edit: I posted this at the same time you made your comment not sure if you saw it so I will repost it and delete the other comment….
Even Jesus called a group of people animals. He is even classifying them as animals in response to Ganids question about the caste system style of classification.133:0.3 One day while resting at lunch, about halfway to Tarentum, Ganid asked Jesus a direct question as to what he thought of India’s caste system. Said Jesus: “Though human beings differ in many ways, the one from another, before God and in the spiritual world all mortals stand on an equal footing. There are only two groups of mortals in the eyes of God: those who desire to do his will and those who do not. As the universe looks upon an inhabited world, it likewise discerns two great classes: those who know God and those who do not. Those who cannot know God are reckoned among the animals of any given realm. Mankind can appropriately be divided into many classes in accordance with differing qualifications, as they may be viewed physically, mentally, socially, vocationally, or morally, but as these different classes of mortals appear before the judgment bar of God, they stand on an equal footing; God is truly no respecter of persons. Although you cannot escape the recognition of differential human abilities and endowments in matters intellectual, social, and moral, you should make no such distinctions in the spiritual brotherhood of men when assembled for worship in the presence of God.”
(1478.5)133:6.6“The saving or losing of a soul has to do with whether or not the moral consciousness attains survival status through eternal alliance with its associated immortal spirit endowment. Salvation is the spiritualization of the self-realization of the moral consciousness, which thereby becomes possessed of survival value. All forms of soul conflict consist in the lack of harmony between the moral, or spiritual, self-consciousness and the purely intellectual self-consciousness.
Please, I’m begging you, read the quote again. Words are very important. (And so is punctuation.)
The quote does not say, “those who will not know God,” it says, “those who cannot know God.” What human with personality cannot know God now or in the next life? Jesus is talking about the absence of personality. Without personality you cannot know God. Animals do not have personality. They can interact with and know of other personalities that are visible to them but they cannot know an invisible God. Jesus is saying that in an inhabited world (a world with life) there are two great classes of living beings, those with personality and those without. Then he goes on to say that those with personality can be further divided into many differing subclasses based upon physical, mental, emotional, social and moral issues, and that all of those subclasses are equal in God’s eyes. But the two great classes are about the presence or absence of personality.
He is talking about mortals in this quote not rabbits. I think the quote is pretty straight forward. He is laying out 2 classifications of mortals. He is replying to a question about classifying humans in a caste system. Not turtles.
Though human beings differ in many ways, the one from another, before God and in the spiritual world all mortals stand on an equal footing. There are only two groups of mortals in the eyes of God: those who desire to do his will and those who do not. As the universe looks upon an inhabited world, it likewise discerns two great classes: those who know God and those who do not. Those who cannot know God are reckoned among the animals of any given realm.
Either way if someone is living on the animal plane, they are functioning as an animal. That is really the only point I wanted to make.
He is talking about mortals in this quote not rabbits. I think the quote is pretty straight forward. He is laying out 2 classifications of mortals.
The first sentence is about mortals. The second sentence is about an inhabited world. The third sentence divides the inhabitants of that world into God knowing and not God knowing Then they say something else entirely different. They mention those who CANNOT know God. That is entirely different from those who know him and those who do not know him. Using the word CANNOT means that there is no capacity at all to ever know God, there is no potential. This could not be referring to a mortal. Mortal means human. Humans have volition and volition is a feature of personality. All personalities CAN know God, it’s an innate feature of personality to quest for him.
. Using the word CANNOT means that there is no capacity at all to ever know God, there is no potential.
Actually I think there is 3 classes. Those who are functioning at a animal level and are capable of more, and then there are those who cannot function at a human level and are completely stuck at a animal level.
Intellectually, mankind is divided into three classes: 1. The subnormal minded–those who do not exercise normal will power; those who do not make average decisions. This class embraces those who cannot comprehend God; they lack capacity for the intelligent worship of Deity. The subnormal beings of Urantia have a corps of seraphim, one company, with one battalion of cherubim, assigned to minister to them and to witness that justice and mercy are extended to them in the life struggles of the sphere. [etc.] (Pg. 1241)
It says MANKIND is divided into subnormal, normal and supernormal INTELLECTUAL classes. All of these classes are still equal in the eyes of God because they are HUMANS (not animals) who have the power to make decisions, which means they have personality. Even the subnormal intellects have personality and therefore have potential to know God, if not in this lifetime, perhaps in the next. No personality is ever denied the opportunity to make the ultimate decision for survival regardless of their intellectual class on earth. Deficiencies of intellect are compensated for on the first mansion world. It’s no different than infants who die and are given the same opportunity in the nurseries. I’m not saying that all people with subnormal intellect will survive, I’m saying there is a chance that they might be still attached to their parents. It doesn’t say that, but it makes you wonder. Regardless, they are human beings and given angels. I don’t recall animals getting angels.
Well lets just agree on the part that there are people who are functioning at a animal level. I mean there is no point in arguing everything we disagree on if there is some common belief in there lol.
I’m not saying that all people with subnormal intellect will survive, I’m saying there is a chance that they might be still attached to their parents. It doesn’t say that, but it makes you wonder. Regardless, they are human beings and given angels.
Chris brought this up once. He said that they would resurrect on the probationary nursery at whatever mental age left off at here. So lets say someone has down syndrome and is stuck at a 3 year old mentality. They would resurrect on the probationary nursery as a 3 year old.
Chris brought this up once. He said that they would resurrect on the probationary nursery at whatever mental age left off at here. So lets say someone has down syndrome and is stuck at a 3 year old mentality. They would resurrect on the probationary nursery as a 3 year old.
Well . . . if Chris says that, it must be true.
Getting back to spiritual insight . . .
Human mind has no survival qualities at all unless it identifies with spirit on some level (36:5.17). Identification with spirit means developing a strong link of association and regarding oneself as sharing the same characteristics, or thinking like the spirit identified with. In order to share characteristics and thoughts there must be a spirit person present to share with.
The average human being attains survivability status, identity in the universe, the moment of the first moral decision and the arrival of the presence of Spirit within the mind (49:6.11; 36:6.5). Lucky Urantians, are blessed with three Spirit presences within their minds as they enter the 7th psychic circle, the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth and Thought Adjuster. Recognition of spirit presence is the beginning of spiritual insight. It is a gift, but it must first be recognized then engaged (shared) in order to be considered identified with. Sharing the inner life with spirit presence is God’s will; it is evidence of identity sharing (111:5.1). Spiritual insight is what God gives us when we share our minds and personalities with him. This gift of insight is meant to help us learn his character and his thinking, to help us learn how to become more spiritual and thus more perfect.
Bonita, I have so far ‘recognized’ error in Scott’s misinterpretations of the text in this thread at all of the same points as you. I trust that others have seen the same problems, but have not added on. And I also think some may have ‘seen’ nothing wrong with things of issue for you and I in the thread.
Without meaning to boast, I would suggest that some of this mutual recognition we are experiencing is a fair example of the function of cosmic insight at the most basic level (discernment at level 1). Error-recognition is as useful as truth-recognition, and it usually presents itself in the face of broken rules of syntax or semantics, or when logical rules of mind are busted.
On the other hand, some of our mutual reaction to Scott’s reasoning has popped up because Scott has written with enough carelessness to suggest interpretations of the text which appear (to you and I) not only to misrepresent the text but also to undermine some basic truth vouchsafed to moral insight (discernment at level 2).
I mention this only briefly to help elucidate what my understanding of these insights entails in real life, and their place in discourse and discovery of truth and error.
To Scott: I am not saying that you don’t know what you are talking about – only that your writing has failed to convey your personal view of the facts in terms recognizable to me as free of error in my current mind-set.
-Reader
Reader, I truly appreciate your courage to say what is in your heart and mind. Scott and I have been debating for years and sometimes it does get ugly. Personally, I’m trying very hard not to let my frustration get the best of me, although I’ve eyed the bottle of port more than once in the past few days, thinking it would be easier to deal with my own muddled mind than someone else’s.
I do sincerely wish you and others would join in the discussion. Perhaps they would if it went at a slower pace, if people had more time to think and research their ideas? I don’t know what the solution is but I often think that going back to writing opinion essays and books is a much better use of my time. I am very confident that there are some very fine thinkers on this forum, those utilizing their cosmic mind intuitions to the max, those who could be offering a real service by sharing their minds with us.
To Scott: I am not saying that you don’t know what you are talking about – only that your writing has failed to convey your personal view of the facts in terms recognizable to me as free of error in my current mind-set.
I encourage you to freely make a rebuttal to anything I have said. I don’t want to be the only one talking on this forum with Bonita. The main point I was trying to make in this thread was that spiritual insight is innate in the cosmic mind. I would say that my interpretation is pretty rock solid considering that the authors flat out tell us this.
192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures.
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