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Greetings Friends and Fellow Students!
I thought it might be interesting to discuss and “speculate” on the many disclaimers offered by the authors of the Papers related to their own “opinions”, “speculations”, and “conjectures” in their presentations of the facts, history, and personalities compiled in the gift of the Revelation.
I always found it completely reasonable that the universe of universes holds mysteries for our celestial friends since many/most were created and reside in the Super or Local Universes but were also charged with writing about much that originates and resides in the Central Universe but which/whom influence time and space. For example, who might truly know eternity and infinity whose experience does not personally include those? Who might truly understand God, the First Source and Center who is not God? Deity, origin, creation, and all the powers, forces, energies, and circuits of all creation are presented to us as factually as possible, and yet the authors do go further in their explanations to attempt to share their own perplexions, confusions, opinions, and speculations whenever and wherever they have such.
I am comforted to discover that knowledge, like wisdom is an experiential acquirement and the universes are formatted for education and experience – an endless quest and adventure of discovery and utilization of knowledge, skill, and expression. I will begin by posting some key word/phrase links to the Foundation’s search engine (due to my familiarity with it – but the Association’s here should also be consulted) which will help us gain some orientation related to the “mysteries” known to the authors of the Papers.
“opinion” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/opinion
“conjecture” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/conjecture
“we believe” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/%22we%20believe%22
“we think” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/%22we%20think%22
“speculate” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/speculate
“speculation” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/speculation
“surmise” – http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/surmise
Feel free to post more key words/phrases and any quotes you find interesting or just speculate on the speculation of our unseen friends!
= )
Cool topic. Ever since I’ve read (about 10 years ago) that the revelators are not always so sure of certain things they touch on, their lack of certainty in a strange way made it easier to accept as facts the topics they actually were confident of; kind of being in good company. Their openness to speculate made me also bold in my personal quest. Good company to find myself in indeed :)
Yes, Arno, they do model a healthy openness we could admire. Despite all the opinions, arguments and suspicions we share, we’d do well to admit, remember, we are not omniscient. My understanding omniscience is held only by the Father, or it may be better to say the Trinity is omniscient. Jesus did not claim omniscience, but we may assume he could be near at that knowledge level.
Omniscience is not a feature of the Sons of God, certainly not in a local universe. The Seven Master Spirits cannot claim omniscience in the superuniverseses. How then could us humans, seated and assigned to the opinion section of the “bleachers of life”, claim anything close to knowing everything? Nope. We can talk to one another in that section, but we can’t know everything.
There is fun for us as we are able to share what we know. And the revelators may enjoy sharing their limited knowledge with us. A Divine Counselor is about as high level of any of the revelators in the FEF. Even they don’t know it all.
So, Brad has done us all a favor by calling attention to the fact mystery continues as we peruse the papers! It is our thinking that should be steered in the right direction, toward the Omniscient One, that is important as we ascend the journey inward. He’s shown us even UB revelators experience mystery. So then how could any of us lowly mortals claim superior posit?
The conjecture, guessing, estimating, perusing, surmising, et al of the higher level minds from many orders of Sons of God are modeling and invigorating at our level of truth seekers. Keep that up and desiring more of God and we’ll know we are aimed in the right direction.
Like all of you I find the willingness to be so refreshingly honest by far superior beings than myself to be an eyeopener into reality. Obviously this is a very friendly universe if these folks, who already know so much, feel comfortable admitting what they don’t know, and similarly, feel the freedom to speculate based upon what they do know. But we should also be aware that these more knowledgable beings have a far wider scope of free will with which to speculate. Free will has its limitations and restrictions at each level (118:6.4; 118:8.1; 188:9.2).
Although we humans are also living in a friendly universe where we are given the freedom to speculate on possible answers, we do not have the same knowledge or experience with which to make those guesses. Therefore, some of the wild and crazy ideas humans come up with are far less trustworthy, in my opinion. Just because one can imagine something doesn’t necessarily make it real.
If we can learn anything from celestial beings admitting that they don’t know something, we can learn how to be honest with ourselves and with others. I think this is what living loyally as a tadpole means, being totally honest.
Thanks Bradly for the topic. And thanks to all the contributors. It’s wonderful to have participation like this.
Speculating makes the universe seem a bit smaller because it is likely that everybody does it.
its a motivator.
Did the first Urania mariners speculate the world would be round or were they ready to go over the edge. Either way eh?
spiritual mariners have similar issues.
A word search of “unexplored” garners 7 results :
Without speculation by even superior beings, there can’t be consistency in the shared experience of an imperfect existence.
The fact that the revelators tell us many times that they really don’t know and are conjecturing, adds to the validity of all that’s revealed. Without it, something would be wrong. It’s the fact that throughout all eternity we’ll never know everything assures us that we’ll always have new places to go, new things to discover while all along the source of it all will be right there at the center of our being holding our hands as it were, the Father in heaven.
Truly amazing.
Thanks to all who have contributed. For me, one of the most profoundly satisfying and inspiring teachings is that our curiosity and child like wonder of the glory of life and the promise of eternity is that….the adventure continues!! Some of our most inherent “human” traits only begin us here on this eternal quest for experience, wisdom, and expression….of our delight and our progress. It is a never ending trail and story of discovery. And this is true of our unseen friends – angels, midwayers, Material Sons and Daughters, and all other sons and daughters of the time and space creations…all are infected by a primal urge to know and to understand and to be and to become!
Glorious!
Glad to be among you each and all. = )
I am reminded how surprised and delighted Jesus was on occasion. Not even the Creator Son is immune from the curiosity and delight and wonder that drives learning and doing. The Master said we are to be “child like” in our perspective of this friendly universe and we are to delight in the love and abundance along the Glory Trail in this family of creation. And we will never “outgrow” this drive.
I think another reason the authors share their own mysteries and quandaries is critical: We are taught that we are to embrace uncertainty. There can be no adventure or quest or problems to solve or situations to creatively and personally “respond” to without uncertainty….but such uncertainty of response or outcome is the very definition of adventure and the quest of discovery. We will each always have a unique and personalized response and expression of our discoveries and our joy. The celestial authors only share this reality with us to help us embrace this fact and truth….the adventure is endless….for all. We are not to be troubled or anxious by uncertainty but to find confidence in all eventuations of potential regardless of the outcomes of choices made in love and service to others and faith in God. An important lesson to impart….only One knows All.
I remember as a believing child, wondering about….what is heaven like? No one really knew of course…but I heard lots of tribal/family stories that it would be like here only better….more fun and more food….and lots of worldly evil left behind….where all are smiling and sharing and caring for one another. So glad for the confirmations in the UB of what heaven is like. While our place is here and now, it is wondrous to have a glimpse of glory land so soon to come upon this walk into eternity.
Kudos to Brother Rick for giving us a more personalized view and experience to come in his fictional illustration of the tadpole’s life to come.
Blessings to all.
Bradly
56:10.5 (646.6) The attainment of cosmologic levels of thought includes:
56:10.6 (646.7) 1. Curiosity. Hunger for harmony and thirst for beauty. Persistent attempts to discover new levels of harmonious cosmic relationships.
56:10.7 (646.8) 2. Aesthetic appreciation. Love of the beautiful and ever-advancing appreciation of the artistic touch of all creative manifestations on all levels of reality.
56:10.8 (646.9) 3. Ethic sensitivity. Through the realization of truth the appreciation of beauty leads to the sense of the eternal fitness of those things which impinge upon the recognition of divine goodness in Deity relations with all beings; and thus even cosmology leads to the pursuit of divine reality values — to God-consciousness.
14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time.
14:5.8 (159.4) Monotony is indicative of immaturity of the creative imagination and inactivity of intellectual co-ordination with the spiritual endowment. By the time an ascendant mortal begins the exploration of these heavenly worlds, he has already attained emotional, intellectual, and social, if not spiritual, maturity.
14:5.9 (159.5) Not only will you find undreamed-of changes confronting you as you advance from circuit to circuit in Havona, but your astonishment will be inexpressible as you progress from planet to planet within each circuit. Each of these billion study worlds is a veritable university of surprises. Continuing astonishment, unending wonder, is the experience of those who traverse these circuits and tour these gigantic spheres. Monotony is not a part of the Havona career.
14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.
14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.
And mechanisms cannot speculate.
maybe we are revealing one of those 50,000 facts the Midwayers are privy to?
I think there are different types of uncertainty, some of which are critical to progress, as Bradly pointed out. But there are other forms of uncertainty which tend to bend the mind into confusional states. I believe that TUB was given to us, in part, to clear up many uncertainties, particularly as to the nature of God and the assurance of survival for all who desire it.
21:5.7 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion.
It’s a relief to me that the universe prefers to stimulate us with the challenges of uncertainty which lead to growth, while at the same time, ministering to us by removing the uncertainties which lead to confusion and doubt. Those who read TUB and find themselves filled with more confusion and doubt are probably not ready for it. I know for myself that when I first discovered TUB I had reached a point of skepticism and uncertainty concerning Church doctrine. TUB relieved the confusion I had about many things, just as it says it is meant to do.
Mark has reminded me of a word that does not appear in any of our South African dictionaries, and maybe one of you good people can assist:
Doc Sprunger once used the word “omnificent” in his book Spiritual Psychology. Just what does it mean? The closest I can come is “omniscient / all-knowing.” And if I actually have to guess, omnificent = something akin to all-fantastic/wonderful/magnificent … Or what?
I’ve been thinking a lot about this topic and it has occurred to me that when the authors of TUB say that they don’t know something, or are speculating based upon their level of information, they are mostly referring to the facts about God and the master universe. Only rarely do they speculate about the actual nature of God himself, such as whether he suffers or not (3:6.6). Most of their uncertainties have to do with facts of God as opposed to the truth of God, whom they state they can know personally. We also know that God is the first truth and the last fact, which probably means that we will never get to the end of knowing all the facts, not our celestial friends and certainly not us. And that, more or less, puts us all on equal footing.
1:7.4 We cannot fully understand how God can be primal, changeless, all-powerful, and perfect, and at the same time be surrounded by an ever-changing and apparently law-limited universe, an evolving universe of relative imperfections. But we can know such a truth in our own personal experience since we all maintain identity of personality and unity of will in spite of the constant changing of both ourselves and our environment.
102:6.6 Though reason can always question faith, faith can always supplement both reason and logic. Reason creates the probability which faith can transform into a moral certainty, even a spiritual experience. God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him. God is absolute truth. As truth one may know God, but to understand—to explain—God, one must explore the fact of the universe of universes. The vast gulf between the experience of the truth of God and ignorance as to the fact of God can be bridged only by living faith. Reason alone cannot achieve harmony between infinite truth and universal fact.
Thanks Bonita….I would add that matters regarding the Jubilees and the Supreme and the “miracles” of Jesus and the final Bestowal incarnation of the Michaels and several other matters in the Local Universe also seem to deliver the speculation of the authors. And, as you say, there seems no doubts expressed as to “what” they describe so much as the “how” some things happen. I do agree that the Central Universe is the source of the greatest number of “mysteries” to the authors however.
I encourage any and all to post text and questions about these mysteries for our mutual enjoyment.
While not on the topic itself, one of the other style related techniques I have always loved is a certain sense of humor portrayed by some authors…indicating the fun-still-to-come in our education and experience. Heaven might be serious business I suppose, but there appears to be much frolicking, joking, and light heartedness about our times ahead! The Master appears to have had (and I suspect, still has) a keen sense of humor himself!
I am so glad that others are not disturbed by this issue of speculation and wonder by the authors, but find it comforting, encouraging, and expressive of a never ending adventure of discovery and learning.
Thanks again to all.
Speculaion synonomous with ideas??
(1479.7) 133:7.7 Ideas are not simply a record of sensations; ideas are sensations plus the reflective interpretations of the personal self; and the self is more than the sum of one’s sensations. There begins to be something of an approach to unity in an evolving selfhood, and that unity is derived from the indwelling presence of a part of absolute unity which spiritually activates such a self-conscious animal-origin mind.
Fantastic quote Gene! It is true that mind tends toward unity. It gathers all the facts at hand and interprets their meanings. If there are missing facts, then the normal mind attempts to unify what it knows and fill in the gaps with conjecture or theories. A well unified mind will fill in those gaps with reasonable ideas, an unstable mind or an immature mind will fill them with less trustworthy ideas. At least that has been my observation. The authors of TUB seem to be quite sane and so whatever ideas they use to fill in the gaps their minds discover after gathering all the data seems to be a much better bet than anything I, or any other mortal, might think of. I trust their minds more than my own when it comes to these matters.
I haven’t had a whole lot of time these past few days, but I did sit down to reread Part 1 in order to discover how many times the authors found gaps in either their knowledge or understanding. I still have a few more days of work on Part 1, but so far I’ve discovered 18 times when they mention that they either conjecture, or simply do not know or comprehend something, and 6 times when they say they are unsure or uncertain about something. And I’ve just begun!
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