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That raises an interesting point, Brad. If Gabriel is not a teacher but rather an administrator, is the purpose of the Urant book teaching or administrative? He is focused on the maintenance preservation and gratification of Nebadon, but what about the theory that every individual has possessed some fragment of the first source? A fragment of the father that when conjointly utilized by the individual, will lead to the fulfillment of all efforts and happiness? This theory of an indwelling father fragment applies equally or ubiquitously throughout the grand universe, it is the same theory that justifies Jesus’ claim “the father and I are one”. And such fragments will fulfill the universal father’s will in the universe spatially and temporally, with or without that individual. So how? And what of the lost Adams, the lost seraphim and midwayers during the Lucifer rebellion? Did they not possess adjusters, were they sincere in their personal followances? Is there any chance for redemption? Or are they lost forever, devoid of life and forfeit of purpose? Could they be resurrected as Lazarus? Could the secret of the final verdict of Gabriel v Lucifer be contingent on the prospect of man’s mercy towards such divine beings, if not Immanuel or Michael themselves? Will Lucifer be thrust into mortality as Adam and eve were thrust into mortality? But even in such a loss of estate, exile into isolation, Lucifer may have discovered the actuality of God’s indwelling fragment, bearing upon his individuality, his future. It is said that Cain did not receive the fragment of First Source until he was overcome with personal regret, remorse. And that the Adam of Satania will be free to ascend unto Paradise, after Satania has reached the full status of light and life.
To begin…
“Theory” of God fragments..????
Hmmm….
Only mortals have TAs…not angels or celestials or “every individual”.
And they are not presented as theoretical.
And no, nobody’s mercy depends upon the mercy extended or wisdom of others created in time and space. Mercy is the nature of God and fairness is the rule of universe reality.
It is good for those who seek to know to ask far more questions than to make questionable declarations of falsehood!
So…you don’t know the purpose of Epochal Revelation as delivered in the Papers???
101:4.3 (1109.4) Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.
101:4.4 (1109.5) In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.
101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:
101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.
As to mercy, forgiveness, and “resurrection” … more to come, but again… only mortals experience material, physical death of the body. The only true resurrection is that of the soul on the Mansion Worlds.
And certainly did Michael approve and validate and reiterate Gabriel’s decisions and actions in every issue related to the rebellion.
53:9.1 (610.6) Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus’ resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father’s world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically, until the Uversa courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father’s world.
53:9.2 (611.1) The archdeceiver has never been on Urantia since the days when he sought to turn back Michael from the purpose to complete the bestowal and to establish himself finally and securely as the unqualified ruler of Nebadon. Upon Michael’s becoming the settled head of the universe of Nebadon, Lucifer was taken into custody by the agents of the Uversa Ancients of Days and has since been a prisoner on satellite number one of the Father’s group of the transition spheres of Jerusem. And here the rulers of other worlds and systems behold the end of the unfaithful Sovereign of Satania. Paul knew of the status of these rebellious leaders following Michael’s bestowal, for he wrote of Caligastia’s chiefs as “spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”
53:9.3 (611.2) Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.
53:9.4 (611.3) Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.
53:9.5 (611.4) Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.
53:9.6 (611.5) We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.
53:9.7 (611.6) The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. “And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more.” And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors “become as though they had not been.” All await the Uversa decree.
53:9.8 (611.7) But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”
Apparently Mr Sela believes his theories. The more he writes, the more I think he is completely locked in to his ideas in the name of freedom of expression and liberty. I do not see that he has a cosmic outlook. Surly Lucifer had a cosmic outlook and experience in his long, long career. But he “ . . . succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty — rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.”53:0.1 [Part II]LUCIFER was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty — rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.. . . he exaltated himself; he will be the guru, self-appointed. And his subordinates fell for it. They fell for the Lucifer Manifesto.43:4.6 [Part II] The traitorous Lucifer, onetime sovereign of Satania, in announcing his claims to increased jurisdiction, sought to displace all superior orders of sonship in the governmental plan of the local universe. He purposed in his heart, saying: “I will exalt my throne above the Sons of God; I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the north; I will be like the Most High.”Thank you for your insights Bradly, Mara. Truth and untruth conflict seemingly has always been a Urantian reality. Anyone interested in law ought to sit up and pay attention in this book.
This gem arrested my attention more than once: From Paper 48:6.33 “The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. (But note this warning…..) The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.”
Willful misstatement is dangerous in spiritual reality, IMHO. I understand this Forum is not for doctrinal imposition, but for helping people comprehend the authors’ intentions.
StephenSela says above: “Little to nothing is factually know of the personality of Lucifer; the only scant references we have refers to him (possibly) as “adversary”. “
Hmmmm… again, another contradiction of the text, which actually is rather articulate about Lucifer’s personality and perspective.
I suppose you mean “factually” as another demonstration of your disbelief and mistrust of the UB??
Have you not read Papers 35 and 53?
Actually it was Jesus who called Lucifer “adversary”, not Gabriel… just to be accurate.
53:0.1 (601.1) LUCIFER was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty—rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.
So… let us review the actual Manifesto as presented in the Papers which Stephen here claims to be misunderstood by us and misrepresented by the UB – as if Stephen has a personal and insider’s knowledge of Lucifer’s character and declarations that is magically more accurate (good grief!):
3. The Lucifer Manifesto
53:3.1 (603.2) Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:
53:3.2 (603.3) 1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father’s name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father’s actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel’s proposals.
53:3.3 (603.4) 2. The universe government of the Creator Son—Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.
53:3.4 (603.5) Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—“foreign potentates”—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.
53:3.5 (603.6) He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.
53:3.6 (604.1) 3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
53:3.7 (604.2) And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy of darkness and death.
Consider this, when you have a prosecutor in the courts of America, he may present his accusations, his argument in such form of “foregone conclusion” but the prosecutor is not the judge. The judge must possess wisdom, to know the folly of such conclusion-making before the end of the trial, the end of the game. That is what it was like to listen to Sokolow tell the 50 Republicans why Donald trump did rightly for America when he acted in his personal interests. Gabriel is the prosecutor, he is telling us how Lucifer has been judged, but that judgment was in the future. You have come to believe ina verdict hypnotically cast upon you by the prosecutor, the one who stripped Lucifer of all outward manifestations of power, but Just like Jesus, his authority was not lost even though all earthly good was taken from him.
And you are free to vote in a democratic nation as a free citizen if you vote for me. Sound familiar? It is the logic of false tyrants! You have your freedom on Paradise only if you follow the will of God! But what is the will of God if such has been indoctrinated by the written law! Lucifer had personality in his approach to deflate the authority not the ancients of days. Actually, he did not strike against the ancients of days themselves but the edentians perception of who they were. Lucifer was drawn closer to the ancients of days, rather than forced into exile. He became more like one of the ancients of days. And besides, he was correct in one sense to say that the universal father “does not exist”, that statement doesn’t imply that Lucifer believed the Father was actually not real. God is real. Look at our experience in the world today. Autonomous news network, Americans have total freedom but do not value their freedom, Chinese have zero freedom, and are witnessing widespread dissolution of the families. Japan, hikikomori, individual apartments stacked up beyond the sky. And every beauro of westernism, overmuch objectivity. Objectivity without subject matter, indirection able commands, doctors who are ruled by the scripts of others. Declarations such as “we refuse to recognize” when you are recognizing someone, you just don’t recognize who you mean by ‘we’. Gabriel and Lucifer the brothers 2, and I take great pity on Gabriel, and I hope Gabriel realizes that trying to shut down Satania, and letting the Melchizedek steal and uphold every progressive change indirectly caused by Gabriel’s rebellion against Lucifer’s authority.
So….now you claim there is no freewill.
Your attacks on the UB and the entirety of its contents are hereby noted.
Gabriel’s rebellion? Melchizedek stealing?
Holy Moly!
Again…what then is your agenda here?
You also, apparently, do not know that Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate rebel planetary prince are 3 different beings?
So you’re voting for false liberty and the rebellion then. Got it.
So you’re voting for false liberty and the rebellion then. Got it.
Yes he is. You are right.
He says:
And besides, he was correct in one sense to say that the universal father “does not exist”, that statement doesn’t imply that Lucifer believed the Father was actually not real.
If you say the Universal Father does not exist and promulgate your statements to subordinates, you take action on your beliefs. First the thought. Then the word (the manifesto). Then the action – getting your buddies onboard to set yourself up on a so-called throne. It most definitely does imply Lucifer did not believe the Father exists. And many subordinates fell for it.
He says:
Gabriel and Lucifer the brothers 2, and I take great pity on Gabriel, and I hope Gabriel realizes that trying to shut down Satania, and letting the Melchizedek steal and uphold every progressive change indirectly caused by Gabriel’s rebellion against Lucifer’s authority.
The word *steal* is such a modern trigger word, isn’t it?
You say Gabriel rebelled against Lucifer authority? You do sympathize with Lucifer and his rebellion.
Surely your spurious promulgations cause a shudder of revulsion in hearts of many.
Lucifer was a Lanonandek Son brought into being by a Creator Son and his Creative Spirit associate. Apparently these Sons have a tendency to fall into error through fallacies of personal liberty and fictions of self-determination.
35:10.5 Many of the Lanonandek Sons in the older systems, however, have established wonderful records of service, administration, and spiritual achievement. They are a noble, faithful, and loyal group, notwithstanding their tendency to fall into error through fallacies of personal liberty and fictions of self-determination.
Garbiel is one of a kind. He’s the Bright and Morning Star.
33:4.0 The Bright and Morning Star is the personalization of the first concept of identity and ideal of personality conceived by the Creator Son and the local universe manifestation of the Infinite Spirit. Going back to the early days of the local universe, before the union of the Creator Son and the Mother Spirit in the bonds of creative association, back to the times before the beginning of the creation of their versatile family of sons and daughters, the first conjoint act of this early and free association of these two divine persons results in the creation of the highest spirit personality of the Son and the Spirit, the Bright and Morning Star.
Gabriel is the highest spirit personality of the Son and the Spirit in Nebadon. He was created before the beginning of the creation of the rest of Michael’s family of sons and daughters.
You make false comparisons when you rely on worldly affairs as examples of cosmic affairs.
But Gabriel has not confronted the facts of temporal mortality. He wants to believe that his life in Nebadon will be everlasting. He has existed in Nebadon for such a while that it could veil his perception of the grand universe. He helped commission this Urantia Papers in order to make it seemed like he has great pity for Lucifer, that only for our good must this system have been closed. With this saudade reverse pity, he made the portrayal that being an apostate, to act as one would wish, is something that causes the individual to suffer a worse fate than life or death. Simply put, his love of his home and the fear of true freedom compelled to censure Lucifer, and in his own personal interests rather than that of administrative judgement.
YOU judge Gabriel????!!!! How very prideful.
Hahahaha….oh dear. Precious. Just how big is your ego Sela??
By the way…Gabriel’s life is eternal and not subject to “temporal mortality” (whatever that is).
Enough is enough already!
Like Lucifer and his declaration of reality denial, StephenSela hopes to spread chaos and anarchy in contradiction of that reality perspective we share and study here together.
His presentations here seeks an audience only, and at the expense of our purpose and ideals.
Unfortunate.
Enough is enough already!
I’m done here Bradly. I’m leaving.
One last point to uplift readers:
54:6.10 As you ascend Paradiseward, you will increasingly learn that many problematic features of universe administration can only be comprehended subsequent to the acquirement of increased experiential capacity and to the achievement of enhanced spiritual insight. Cosmic wisdom is essential to the understanding of cosmic situations.
Mara – your bright light has shared truth, beauty, and goodness here for many and for so long too. I wish you well during any respite you may need but hope for your speedy return.
It has been challenging here recently as the Forum is polluted by agenda and contradictions by those seeking attention rather than study, sharing, or understanding.
Let us anticipate a more nurturing and productive season and cycle to come.
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