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Gene: I’m wondering if your generalized topic header is too general?
Do you have a specific area which you wish to discuss; like how do angels relate directly with mortals/humans? I mention this because the UB presents such a large topic area between many different angel categories and their functions?
Second thought
since I started with the Creative Mother lets just continue paper 34 then the later papers on Angels in a linear way with plenty of leeway to jump around
Gene, in your opening of one of your previous posts you start off with the following:
the last sentence of the opening paragraph states that “to the creator son the spirit associate (the universe spirit) is personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual”
that suggests that Michael does not change his relationship with her very much before or after her transformation to the. divine Minister. He kind of sits back and enjoys the show –
And she was certain to facilitate the creation of energy circuits prior to her transformation – is this not what nourishes the ministering spirits? Or is it what is told in 34:1.2 – “from and through this new personal segregation of the Conjoint
Actor[Creator] there proceed the established currents and the ordained circuits of spirit power and spiritual influence destined to pervade all the worlds and beings of that local universe”? I think the former.When you mention in the second sentence, Michael’s relationship with, as you inferred, “(the universe spirit)” may be putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Where in the preface to this section (34:0.1-3), which the ‘0’ numeric structure, should be considered as a lead-in to that which follows, and is more a generalization. Even though the section header is “The Local Universe Mother Spirit”, this preface indicates a process which is repeated in many other processes outside and inside a “local universe” where in the first narrative (34:0.1), it refers to “WHEN a Creator Son is personalized”, and would be any Creator Son, therefore specific to all “Michael’s”.
Then in your third sentence you refer to something from (34:1.2), may be more associated to what was presented in (34:1.1) and not necessarily specific to the preface section but, may only be part of the generalized process? Not to mention that you used the phrase “ministering spirits”, which is not found in this section specifically, thereby by making your comparison, possibly made difficult without much more descriptive details? Also, I have edited the term “Conjoint Actor” to “Conjoint Creator” because that is what I find in my digital text, notwithstanding that I would be curious to know where you got your presented example from? In that these two entities are not necessarily the same in function.
In your first sentence where I have highlighted the UB quoted phrase, which comes from (34:0.3); it is important to look at all of those paragraphs in order to get a general idea as to how the context is structured.
If we look as the preface to this section, I will present what I understand to be the generalized underlying premise.
The Local Universe Mother Spirit
(374.1) 34:0.1 WHEN a Creator Son is personalized by the Universal Father and the Eternal Son, then does the Infinite Spirit individualize a new and unique representation of himself to accompany this Creator Son to the realms of space, there to be his companion, first, in physical organization and, later, in creation and ministry to the creatures of the newly projected universe.
(374.2) 34:0.2 A Creative Spirit reacts to both physical and spiritual realities; so does a Creator Son; and thus are they co-ordinate and associate in the administration of a local universe of time and space.
(374.3) 34:0.3 These Daughter Spirits are of the essence of the Infinite Spirit, but they cannot function in the work of physical creation and spiritual ministry simultaneously. In physical creation the Universe Son provides the pattern while the Universe Spirit initiates the materialization of physical realities. The Son operates in the power designs, but the Spirit transforms these energy creations into physical substances. Although it is somewhat difficult to portray this early universe presence of the Infinite Spirit as a person, nevertheless, to the Creator Son the Spirit associate is personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual.
In the first paragraph (34:01) it should be noted that this is a generalized process which is repeated for specific universe creation, and is not necessarily unique. Therefore the “First source and center” (Universal Father), and the “Second source and center” (Eternal Son) “personalize” a Creator Son, whereby the “Third source and center” (Infinite Spirit) responds by creating a unique companion for this Creator Son. In essence they are separate but compatible to each other, similar to a species, like a male and female human, who would be mingling with other components part until they start to organize, “co-ordinate and associate” both physically and spiritually because they have been previously paired.
Now, I highlighted the word “co-ordinate” because when we lookup this word it is presented as “coordinate” but if the authors hyphenated it, it may have a slightly different meaning as presented here. In that “coordinate” indicates “of the same order or degree; equal in rank or importance” and “co-ordinate” is a combination of the prefix “co-” and, “ordinate.”
When we look at these definitions we can see that “co-” can represent “(in mathematics and astronomy) of the complement of an angle”, and for “ordinate”, specifically, indicates “Mathematics. (in plane Cartesian coordinates) the y-coordinate of a point: its distance from the x-axis measured parallel to the y-axis” and, associated to or compared to “abscissa” which is defined as “(in plane Cartesian coordinates) the x-coordinate of a point: its distance from the y-axis measured parallel to the x-axis.”
This being presented, the last two words are defined differently in that one is the “y-coordinate” and the other as the “x-coordinate”, where this can also be associated to the creation of the “XX” and XY” chromosomes, however as may also be associated to “co-” as defined as “The prefix , co-, now productively forms new words from bases beginning with any sound (co-conspirator; co-manage; coseismic), sometimes with the derived sense “auxiliary, subsidiary” (coenzyme; copilot), and, in mathematics and astronomy, with the sense “complement” ( codeclination).”Therefore the use of the word “co-ordinate” would or might indicate that what is being presented has multiple meanings and at the very least affirms that what may follow also has multiple means as to context?
When we look at the context of (34:0.3), it mentions that “In physical creation the Universe Son provides the pattern while the Universe Spirit initiates the materialization of physical realities.” Where if we assume a parallel, the sperm and the egg, and also in genetics, RNA (a single-stranded molecule) and DNA (double-stranded molecule), where when “pattern” is presented, it can be associated with an instruction set, possibly for unpacking or a process of creation.
Therefore, if we can envision “the Creator Son the Spirit associate” as being the “associate” to the “spirit” and as they are created as a matched pair, but different based on function, they can also be associated as “personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual.” And also can be compared to an Adam and Eve, and many other associations within the UB.
Another way to thinking or looking at this would be through biology, where the “spirit” is feminine having “XX” chromosome, and the “Son” is masculine having “XY” chromosome, then when they are combined or organized as one, would be represented as “XXXY” which may represent androgyny — “having both masculine and feminine characteristics”, yet having separate functions. Where in essence, could reproduce and spawn at least three singularities as, another “XXXY”, or just an “XX” or “XY” but, with these base units could pair in the following manor: ((XXXY)+(XXXY)), ((XXXY)+(XX)), ((XXXY)+(XY)), ((XX)+(XY)); whereas the chaining progresses will always contain a portion of the “pattern” provided by the “Son” or a “Y” factor. Which can also be reasoned that within a male’s or, “Son’s” structure, there are the components, or parts/patterns of both feminine and masculine but since the UB has represented the three sources and centers as masculine, in order to create just a “XX” entity you would need to combine ((XY)+(YX)) to make an (XX). Also, one must keep in mind that a (YY) entity could not be considered as a spirit entity because it would require at least one (X), where one might consider an anti-factor as being a duality (order theory) within itself; if one takes the “X” and folds the bottom forks together, a “Y” symbol is created, and if one folds the top half of the “Y” together, and incorporated it into a circle, one would get the following symbol, which represents Phi —“ Φ “— which has been a representation of infinite series/sequence/patterns. Therefore, it is no wonder that the second source and center (the Son) is represented as —“ ⨀ ”—(circle, with a dot in the center) then could the infinite spirit be represented as —“ ⊗ “— which would include a fourth dimension as “time” as in time and space?If one keeps this analysis in mind as we read through the text which follows, it may allow envisioning, more of what may be being expressed by the authors. When one can imagine more than one overlapping image or scenario, as different words are combined in multiple contexts, and may make better sense when the narration uses many words for the same descriptive presentation?
One of the word phrases used above which seems to present itself as puzzling in the way it was used: “personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual.” If one searches for “distinct individual” which is singular, you will find two other areas where it is used, as noted below. Although these examples may not directly relate to the usage in question but, they may present a similar understanding as to how they are used and can be associated somewhat to the general meaning. In this case when we read “individual” we interpret it with a person or single human being but it can also represent: “a distinct, indivisible entity; a single thing, being, instance, or item” or, ”a group considered as a unit.” Also, in biology it can represent: “a single organism capable of independent existence” or, “a member of a compound organism or colony.” That’s why, I think that the UB has mentioned that words need to be looked up, especially when they can have multiple meaning, where in some cases if these multiple meaning are applied to the narration, one might see that there could have been more than one thought structure being presented. Since things in the universe repeat themselves as to the way they function or have been created, why would an author go to the trouble to repeat the text so many times when they can save space by incorporating context within the grammatical structure?
(106.10) 9:8.12 Both First Source and Third Source personalities are endowed with all and more than man associates with the concept of personality; they have minds embracing memory, reason, judgment, creative imagination, idea association, decision, choice, and numerous additional powers of intellect wholly unknown to mortals. With few exceptions the orders revealed to you possess form and distinct individuality; they are real beings. A majority of them are visible to all orders of spirit existence.
(266.5) 24:1.15 While the circuit supervisors are entirely alike within their respective orders, they are all distinct individuals. They are truly personal beings, but they possess a type of other-than-Father-endowed personality not encountered in any other type of creature in all universal existence.
Now Gene, I was little puzzled when I read your third sentence, as I repost her, again:
And she was certain to facilitate the creation of energy circuits prior to her transformation – is this not what nourishes the ministering spirits? Or is it what is told in 34:1.2 – “from and through this new personal segregation of the Conjoint
Actor[Creator] there proceed the established currents and the ordained circuits of spirit power and spiritual influence destined to pervade all the worlds and beings of that local universe”? I think the former.Where one must look at the previous UB quotation or narration to understand what has occurred which is a “transformation” but when examined is associated to “Divine Minister” — “individualized Creative Spirit helper” — but when one looks at (34:1.1) there is an interaction from the “Paradise Trinity” based on the “proclamation of the Michael Son”. I’m not sure where the “ministering spirits” comes into play at this time?
1. Personalization of the Creative Spirit
(374.4) 34:1.1 After the completion of the physical organization of a starry and planetary cluster and the establishment of the energy circuits by the superuniverse power centers, subsequent to this preliminary work of creation by the agencies of the Infinite Spirit, operating through, and under the direction of, his local universe creative focalization, there goes forth the proclamation of the Michael Son that life is next to be projected in the newly organized universe. Upon the Paradise recognition of this declaration of intention, there occurs a reaction of approval in the Paradise Trinity, followed by the disappearance in the spiritual shining of the Deities of the Master Spirit in whose superuniverse this new creation is organizing. Meanwhile the other Master Spirits draw near this central lodgment of the Paradise Deities, and subsequently, when the Deity-embraced Master Spirit emerges to the recognition of his fellows, there occurs what is known as a “primary eruption.” This is a tremendous spiritual flash, a phenomenon clearly discernible as far away as the headquarters of the superuniverse concerned; and simultaneously with this little-understood Trinity manifestation there occurs a marked change in the nature of the creative spirit presence and power of the Infinite Spirit resident in the local universe concerned. In response to these Paradise phenomena there immediately personalizes, in the very presence of the Creator Son, a new personal representation of the Infinite Spirit. This is the Divine Minister. The individualized Creative Spirit helper of the Creator Son has become his personal creative associate, the local universe Mother Spirit.
(375.1) 34:1.2 From and through this new personal segregation of the Conjoint Creator there proceed the established currents and the ordained circuits of spirit power and spiritual influence destined to pervade all the worlds and beings of that local universe. In reality, this new and personal presence is but a transformation of the pre-existent and less personal associate of the Son in his earlier work of physical universe organization.
Don’t know what to say Midi
i write what I feel and tend to put it in my own words as much as possible.
i re-red and I’m ok with what I wrote
hoping for discussion but criticism is ok too
thx
Even so, and after she becomes the divine minister and much life creation happens she is still not quite a person ??
I went back to your first post to pull out one of your questions. I hope you don’t mind reading a series of references pertaining to the local universe creative spirit of the Infinite Spirit, aka the local universe Mother Spirit, aka the Spirit consort of the Creator Son, among other names used to denominate her. Yes, she is a bona fide person.
17:6:7 4. The Life-Creation Era. Upon the declaration of intention to create life by the Creator Son, there ensue on Paradise the “personalization ceremonies,” participated in by the Seven Master Spirits and personally experienced by the supervising Master Spirit. This is a Paradise Deity contribution to the individuality of the Spirit consort of the Creator Son and becomes manifest to the universe in the phenomenon of “the primary eruption” in the person of the Infinite Spirit. Simultaneously with this phenomenon on Paradise, the heretofore impersonal Spirit consort of the Creator Son becomes, to all practical intents and purposes, a bona fide person. Henceforth and forevermore, this same local universe Mother Spirit will be regarded as a person and will maintain personal relations with all the personality hosts of the ensuing life creation.When she is elevated to the status of personality prerogatives, the adjutant mind spirits are bestowed on living creatures in the local universe. (17:7:1)You might find this as interesting as I did. I interpret this reference to mean, in part, that the relationship of Creator Son and the universe Mother Spirit is a pattern of relationship applicable to the high ideal of marriage and the family.33:3:6 After this pledge of subordination by the Creative Mother Spirit, Michael of Nebadon nobly acknowledged his eternal dependence on his Spirit companion, constituting the Spirit coruler of his universe domains and requiring all their creatures to pledge themselves in loyalty to the Spirit as they had to the Son; and there issued and went forth the final “Proclamation of Equality.” Though he was the sovereign of this local universe, the Son published to the worlds the fact of the Spirit’s equality with him in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. And this becomes the transcendent pattern for the family organization and government of even the lowly creatures of the worlds of space. This is, in deed and in truth, the high ideal of the family and the human institution of voluntary marriage.Further. . .37:0:1 AT THE head of all personality in Nebadon stands the Creator and Master Son, Michael, the universe father and sovereign. Co-ordinate in divinity and complemental in creative attributes is the local universe Mother Spirit, the Divine Minister of Salvington. And these creators are in a very literal sense the Father-Son and the Spirit–Mother of all the native creatures of Nebadon.Gene wrote: . . . she is of trinity origin?I had to look this up too. No, she what they call a single-origin being, “Those of origin in any one of the Paradise Deities or otherwise created by any one being of direct or indirect descent from the Paradise Deities.” (30:1:55)Why tell us about un-revealed beings? There is a message in this that gets my imagination going and the revealators do this for a reason. I’m missing it right now.
Here is a clue:
30:0:2 It is not possible to formulate comprehensive and entirely consistent classifications of the personalities of the grand universe because all of the groups are not revealed. It would require numerous additional papers to cover the further revelation required to systematically classify all groups. Such conceptual expansion would hardly be desirable as it would deprive the thinking mortals of the next thousand years of that stimulus to creative speculation which these partially revealed concepts supply. It is best that man not have an overrevelation; it stifles imagination.
. . . the local universe mother spirit highlighted in paper 34 and differences in her influence on us as compared with our creator son.
I attend a prayer circle every week. It’s bible-based, because that is the Christian book people study and quote and much can be said about Christianity. I like to go because I like to fellowship with faithers. We pray together and share together. Some are regular Christians, several are Catholics, and one is a Catholic converted to Judaism. I mostly keep quiet about UB info, because I’m not there to correct anyone, though I do insert a concept here and there along the way. While it helped me to know more about the Holy Spirit, do you think it matters, really, if people do not know about this spiritual circuit of the local universe mother spirit? It amazes me Christians know as much as they do. They are faith-sons too.
8:5:3 In your sacred writings the term Spirit of God seems to be used interchangeably to designate both the Infinite Spirit on Paradise and the Creative Spirit of your local universe. The Holy Spirit is the spiritual circuit of this Creative Daughter of the Paradise Infinite Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a circuit indigenous to each local universe and is confined to the spiritual realm of that creation; but the Infinite Spirit is omnipresent.The way I understand it the seven adjutant mind spirits (circuits) go out as soon as life is initiated. The adjutants do their thing until one being makes a first moral choice, like Andon and Fonta. “The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit.” The Holy Spirit is supermind bestowal. (92:0:4) (34:5:3)56:3:3 No matter on what level of universe activities you may encounter spiritual phenomena or contact with spirit beings, you may know that they are all derived from the God who is spirit by the ministry of the Spirit Son and the Infinite Mind Spirit. And this far-flung spirit functions as a phenomenon on the evolutionary worlds of time as it is directed from the headquarters of the local universes. From these capitals of the Creator Sons come the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth, together with the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits, to the lower and evolving levels of material minds.103:0:1 ALL of man’s truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths. As evolution advances on an inhabited world, the Thought Adjusters increasingly participate in the development of the higher types of human religious insight. The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.108:2:2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster. Creature mind must exhibit the worship outreach and indicate wisdom function by exhibiting the ability to choose between the emerging values of good and evil — moral choice.As to her influence?As the Sons of God are engaged in the gigantic task of revealing the Father’s personality of love to a universe, so is the Infinite Spirit dedicated to the unending ministry of revealing the combined love of the Father and the Son to the individual minds of all the children of each universe. In these local creations the Spirit does not come down to the material races in the likeness of mortal flesh as do certain of the Sons of God, but the Infinite Spirit and his co-ordinate Spirits do downstep themselves, do joyfully undergo an amazing series of divinity attenuations, until they appear as angels to stand by your side and guide you through the lowly paths of earthly existence.She’s the source of local universe intellect. (112:6:6)We work out the practical details of daily life with her agents. The act is ours, etc.5:3:5 When you deal with the practical affairs of your daily life, you are in the hands of the spirit personalities having origin in the Third Source and Center; you are co-operating with the agencies of the Conjoint Actor. And so it is: You worship God; pray to, and commune with, the Son; and work out the details of your earthly sojourn in connection with the intelligences of the Infinite Spirit operating on your world and throughout your universe.MidiChlorian wrote: Also, I have edited the term “Conjoint Actor” to “Conjoint Creator” because that is what I find in my digital text, notwithstanding that I would be curious to know where you got your presented example from? In that these two entities are not necessarily the same in function.So, what exactly is the difference in function between the Conjoint Actor and the Conjoint Creator? Take into consideration this quote when answering. Do all of these titles of the TSC have different functions? If so, what are they?
8:2.2 The Third Source and Center is known by numerous titles: the Universal Spirit, the Supreme Guide, the Conjoint Creator, the Divine Executive, the Infinite Mind, the Spirit of Spirits, the Paradise Mother Spirit, the Conjoint Actor, the Final Co-ordinator, the Omnipresent Spirit, the Absolute Intelligence, the Divine Action; and on Urantia he is sometimes confused with the cosmic mind.
Well, I spent a good bit of time yesterday doing research. I read every quote in the book that contains either Conjoint Creator and/or Conjoint Actor. I really wanted to find a difference in function but could not find one. There were a few times when I thought I was honing in on something only to find that I wasn’t. Oh well. I was kinda hoping had found something new, but I don’t think so. I really don’t know why TUB keeps interchanging different titles for the same person. It gets confusing. Then there are all the mothers and fathers in the universe, it makes your head spin.
Sorry? Is that a question?
no, just having some fun
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