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195:5:2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed.195:5:2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed.Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed.195:5:2 [#4]Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed.
Van Amadan, what you said and what the ub records is true, but this is the age where everything, especially that of a religious nature, will be critically examined by both those who follow said religion and those who are looking into it. When I first read the ub, this one was one of my questions. I’ve found answers for all of my inishal questions but this one.
And in my research into the ub at that time, this one kept popping up… not very often, but just enough to make me curious. And the ub believers, to my knowledge, have not found a way to answer this objection. We have found ways to answer objections to ub science, for example, but not this one.
174:4:6[#4]When no more questions were forthcoming, and as the noon hour was near, Jesus did not resume his teaching but was content merely to ask the Pharisees and their associates a question. Said Jesus: “Since you ask no more questions, I would like to ask you one. What do you think of the Deliverer? That is, whose son is he?” After a brief pause one of the scribes answered, “The Messiah is the son of David.” And since Jesus knew that there had been much debate, even among his own disciples, as to whether or not he was the son of David, he asked this further question: “If the Deliverer is indeed the son of David, how is it that, in the Psalm which you accredit to David, he himself, speaking in the spirit, says, ‘The Lord said to my lord, sit on my right hand until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet.’ If David calls him Lord, how then can he be his son?” Although the rulers, the scribes, and the chief priests made no reply to this question, they likewise refrained from asking him any more questions in an effort to entangle him. They never answered this question which Jesus put to them, but after the Master’s death they attempted to escape the difficulty by changing the interpretation of this Psalm so as to make it refer to Abraham instead of the Messiah. Others sought to escape the dilemma by disallowing that David was the author of this so-called Messianic Psalm.Forgive me Chuck, but I’m wondering if you haven’t fallen into a similar scriptural trap as the one described above.Andre Traversa wrote: So, not only did Hiel offer his two sons as foundation sacrifices, but according to the UB, the Old Testament writer has God endorsing it.
Not sure how Andre arrived at that conclusion. TUB says that the people who built Jericho reverted to believing in a pagan god, probably Baal, who endorsed child sacrifice. Moses, of course did not endorse such a thing, which TUB clearly states.
Andre Traversa wrote: First, where is the evidence that the priests in Babylon rewrote the OT? I have yet to find any scholarly evidence to support this claim. Was I supposed to just accept it at face value as “revelation,” just because it was in the Urantia Book?
I don’t know what Andre is reading, but every biblical scholar I have read dates the Old Testament to the post-exilic period, which is when the Jews were in Babylon. From wikipedia:
The majority of modern biblical scholars believe that the Torah reached its present form in the post-Exilic period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible:
Andre Traversa wrote: Because God gave Jericho into the hands of the Israelites as a gift when He brought down the walls. The Jews did not take Jericho from the Canaanites by their own power; rather, God gave it to them by His power and His grace, its ruins forever serving as evidence of God’s judgment on the evil Canaanites. God had conquered the land of Canaan and had given it to the Israelites as a gift. Rebuilding Jericho was a slap in the face to God.
This passage is extremely revealing. Andre appears to be a devout adherent of the organized and racial religion of Judaism. He believes that God favored the Jews over the Canaanites and helped to drive out the Canaanites. We know that God would never punish one race of people and reward another. It must have really upset Andre to read in TUB that the Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine but actually mated with them combined their two races into one.
97:9.1 There never were twelve tribes of the Israelites — only three or four tribes settled in Palestine. The Hebrew nation came into being as the result of the union of the so-called Israelites and the Canaanites. “And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took their daughters to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of the Canaanites.” The Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine, notwithstanding that the priests’ record of these things unhesitatingly declared that they did.
Not everyone is open minded enough to embrace revelation, and that is fine. It is safer to hold onto ancient wisdom than to courageously embrace something new. If the writing of dead men inspires the soul, then it should not be taken away from that person. Because if it’s tried, it will rock their world and cause cataclysms of doubt too upsetting to the psyche. Better to leave well enough alone, which is what Andre did, retreated to the safety of the myths of the past.
He started out with a grandmother who was an orthodox Christian as I recall. He himself swung between Christianity and
UB beliefs. He’d have problems with Christianity, try to find answers to his questions from the Christians he knew, wouldn’t find them, go back to the UB, repeat cycle. I suggest you read his entire story for more insight. In the end he was pointed to those passages in Joshua and 1 Kings. When he read those and combined them with that UB paragraph, a spiritual conflict arose. He was unable to resolve it via the UB community. He was able to resolve it via the Christian community that he associated with at the time.Though this is not enough to dissuade me from my belief in the UB, it is the only question thatI have not been able to answer as a result of my first reading of the UB. Thanks to the UB community, I was able to answer the others. I associate with people who study the Bible both regularly and deeply. They value their Bible study as much as I value my study of the UB. If this point comes up in discussion with one of them, assuming that I can get anyone of them to actually read the ub, what am I suppose to say? They could argue that, if the ub is supposed to stand or fall on its’ own, that by this itom it falls. While I could point out the same thing about the Bible, I would like to resolve this spiritual conflict not only for the sake of discussion, but for myself as well.
The only problem is that there is no conflict. So how you expect us to help you solve a problem that doesn’t exist is beyond my pay grade. I wish you a lot of luck with it.
Hi Chuck,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Yes I can see what you are getting at. This does appear to be a mistaken quotation of the Biblical account at 1Kings16:34. The implication of the UB author, a Brilliant Evening Star, seems to be that this detestable practice was sanctioned at the time by “the word of the Lord”. But the Biblical account clearly adds “which He spoke by Joshua the son of Nun”, presumably alluding to the prophetic account at Joshua 6:26. Here, Joshua pronounces a curse on anyone who rebuilds the city of Jericho, predicting that they will do so with the loss of their firstborn and youngest sons. It was not sanctioning child sacrifice.
I’m not sure what to make of this. Perhaps the author knows something about the original Biblical text that we don’t know….or perhaps this is a mistake. But I don’t see it as a deliberate lie! It would be good to hear from anyone else who could shine more light on this matter.
Read the second post. I was trying to edit my post and somehow I wound up with two of them. Sorry about that. Thanks Julian. Now you know what I’ve been going through the past half decade or so. I’ve yet to find an answer to this rather annoying question.
I don’t know if I copied it or not, but Aundray laments the fact that UB students don’t have a better fammiluarity with the Bible. For that reason, and because those I associate with for the most part are Christian, I am taking a Bible course. It is a five year radio program called Through The Bible. The teacher is very conservative. It takes the listener back and forth between the testaments though. It is not in biblical order. A book schedule that tells wich book is to be studied in the program order is available on the site along with a program schedule that covers three months or so. If any one is interested, you can listen to each program or download all six gigibites of the program in mp3 format along with notes and outlines at
It is the parent site.
This is a secondary site but the schedule is easier to find here, plus this site has one or two minor details that the parent site doesn’t have, for example, the fact that each program is about 22 minutes long. It is also easier to get around in some respects. I plan to be done long before five years. I downloaded the entire program along with a KJV bible and the book schedule. I expect it will take me half that time to complete the program.
Another Bible study resource is
http://www.blueletterbible.org
This website has multiple Bible versions, commentaries, bible dictionaries, a concordance, a bible encyclapedia (I think) in short everything a serious Bible student would need. I plan to make use of it during my study. If only someone would do something like that with the ub… Maybe one day…
Thanks Julian. Now you know what I’ve been going through the past half decade or so. I’ve yet to find an answer to this rather annoying question.
I don’t know if I copied it or not, but Aundray laments the fact that UB students don’t have a better fammiluarity with the Bible. For that reason, and because those I associate with for the most part are Christian, I am taking a Bible course. It is a five year radio program called Through The Bible. The teacher is very conservative though. It takes the listener back and forth between the testaments, instead of biblical order. A book schedule that tells wich book is to be studied in the program order is available on the site along with a program schedule that covers three months or so. If any one is interested, you can listen to each program or download all six gigibites of the program in mp3 format along with notes and outlines at
It is the parent site.
This is a secondary site but the schedule is easier to find here, plus this site has one or two minor details that the parent site doesn’t have, for example, the fact that each program is about 22 minutes long. It is also easier to get around in some respects. I plan to be done long before five years. I downloaded the entire program along with a KJV bible and the book schedule. I expect it will take me half that time to complete the program.
Another Bible study resource is
http://www.blueletterbible.org
This website has multiple Bible versions, commentaries, bible dictionaries, a concordance, a bible encyclapedia (I think) in short everything a serious Bible student would need. I plan to make use of it during my study. If only someone would do something like that with the ub… Maybe one day… And yes, I know about the index/concordex. I mean a paragraph by paragraph ub study where everything is broken down. There is a difference in being told what to believe and being offered a guide through the text.
This ttb program is more like a guide through the Bible although the teacher does his share of trying to convert. This particular program has been used as the soul means of training some pastors of churches in foreign countries for the past few decades. That is not to say that there are not other programs, just that this one has a good reputation.
Hi Chuck,
I commend you for wanting to get a broader and deeper understanding of the Bible. In the UB, Jesus demonstrated a comprehensive knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures and he used them selectively and successfully to promote his gospel of the kingdom. I think it behooves us to get to know the theological source of our fellows in order to emphasize the beliefs we may have in common and to build positively on that foundation.
I have been thinking about the apparent misquoting of 1Kings 16:34 and have come to several conclusions. I think Bonita put her finger on it when she mentioned what the UB has to say about ‘cursing’….that it is a primitive practice that has nothing to do with truth, beauty and goodness, the matchless personality of our Universal Father. I will say more when I’ve thought it through more thoroughly.
Peace!
Why is it assumed that TUB misquoted the Bible? Isn’t it more likely that the Bible has been mistranslated over the years and TUB is offering the original wording? That’s the way I see it, especially since foundation sacrifices have been proven archeologically to have been widespread practices at that time in history. Hiel sacrificed his sons and there was no curse fulfilled. Hiel cursed himself, which is what usually happens. People do stupid things to themselves and God has no hand in it. Also, the whole idea of Jericho’s walls coming down by some kind of miracle from God is just ridiculous. God would never take sides in a war. That idea is totally ridiculous and evidence that the Bible was written by miracle minded ancient men willing to bend facts to suit their own religious agenda. I still don’t see how this is an issue so tremendous that it causes a faith crisis. And what about Noah and his ark? TUB says it never existed. Wouldn’t that fact rock the world of Bible fundamentalists far more than this? I’m not getting it.
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