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Nigel Nunn wrote: “… with either over developed, or under developed consciences”? So not only can a workshop be untidy, it can be too tidy? Brings to mind (1021.4, 93:6.8): while Abraham was thoroughly sincere, “he was not overly pious“.
That’s an interesting way to look at it. Are piety and conscience related? I’ll have to think about it. I was actually thinking of this quote about failure of personality unification resulting in a misguided and overdeveloped conscious. They say it causes serious injury to the self. Those are pretty potent words, don’t you think?
103:2.10 Man tends to identify the urge to be self-serving with his ego — himself. In contrast he is inclined to identify the will to be altruistic with some influence outside himself — God. And indeed is such a judgment right, for all such nonself desires do actually have their origin in the leadings of the indwelling Thought Adjuster, and this Adjuster is a fragment of God. The impulse of the spirit Monitor is realized in human consciousness as the urge to be altruistic, fellow-creature minded. At least this is the early and fundamental experience of the child mind. When the growing child fails of personality unification, the altruistic drive may become so overdeveloped as to work serious injury to the welfare of the self. A misguided conscience can become responsible for much conflict, worry, sorrow, and no end of human unhappiness.
My understanding is that the conscience becomes misguided because of the inability to develop a well-balanced and coordinated integration of the three basic constituents of reality as described in 16:6.(Cosmic Mind).
16:6.10 These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.
16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence.
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Bonita wrote:
[B] “That’s an interesting way to look at it. Are piety and conscience related? I’ll have to think about it. I was actually thinking of this quote about failure of personality unification resulting in a misguided and overdeveloped conscious. They say it causes serious injury to the self. Those are pretty potent words, don’t you think?”
Indeed! Your quote is one I was trying to find when looking for three comments regarding what we might call “misguided social sensibilities”. When I came across Abraham’s being “not overly pious“, I thought that worth adding to the mix.
If we think of piety being connected with (A) private moral expectations, (B) prevailing social assumptions, and (C) intuitive insight into judicial form of the cosmic discrimination, then “piety” becomes a curious tool in the old workshop.
(793.2, 70:8.10) […] the piety and mysticism of the priests have long perpetuated them as a separate social group.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Nigel Nunn wrote: If we think of piety being connected with (A) private moral expectations, (B) prevailing social assumptions, and (C) intuitive insight into judicial form of the cosmic discrimination, then “piety” becomes a curious tool in the old workshop.This reminds me of the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness. There must be sincere piety and false piety. I would think false piety and self-righteousness are in the same family. But are they from an over developed conscience or a misguided conscience? Or both?
In regards to the workshop, righteousness and piety come from a desire to do good which begins at the adjutant level of thinking. Self-righteousness and false piety, I’m guessing, never make it up to soul level thinking through spiritual insight. The spirit of worship is what gets the mind thinking about right and wrong, but it’s up to the personality to look both to outer human laws which dictate right and wrong behavior and inner divine laws which urge the personality to opt for the one that brings it closer to the highest form of the golden rule, spiritual love, the more Godlike option.
5:5.14 A human mind discerning right and wrong and possessing the capacity to worship God, in union with a divine Adjuster, is all that is required in that mortal to initiate and foster the production of his immortal soul of survival qualities if such a spirit-endowed individual seeks God and sincerely desires to become like him, honestly elects to do the will of the Father in heaven.
As a side note, there may be more curiouser things going on, as you say Nigel. We have run across a few people in the TUB community (actually more than a few) who are filled with self-righteousness because they believe they have gone all the way to the top and got the word directly from God himself . They go about preaching and establishing churches and causing all kinds of mischief. Is that due to an over developed conscience or self-delusion and egotism, or both? I don’t know, but I digress.
Following the letter of the law of the human moral code in regards to religion could certainly make one feel pious if all they are going by is a high human moral standard. And that high moral standard could be set by either religious or secular institutions. Which is why they mention the kingdom of good can fool people’s consciences into thinking it’s the kingdom of God. The kingdom of good is a human level of goodness, the kingdom of God is a divine level of goodness. And a divine level of goodness is unconscious, therefore the conscience is most likely bypassed, I would guess. How else would you insure that it be “void of offense”?
This is another reason why I think Zuimon, who claims the only way to be Godlike is to examine and embrace all your feelings, even the negative ones, is full of baloney. Self-examination is examination of the conscience. It is low level thinking which continues to bring up old offenses. How can you maintain a conscience void of offense if your spiritual life centers around human feelings? How can you clean your conscience of offense with the same dirty rag you used to fill it up? I don’t get it. But I digress again, sorry.
I don’t see anything wrong with following the highest human moral standards to keep your conscience from bothering you, but there is still a higher standard to be sought after, what is truly right. And that can only be found with sincerity and humility, like a child. So smug self-righteousness and false piety could never get you there, not in a million years.
p1207:7 110:5.1 Do not confuse and confound the mission and influence of the Adjuster with what is commonly called conscience; they are not directly related. Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard. Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading.
In regards to the cosmic insights contributing to a balanced personality, the judicial form of cosmic discrimination involves the recognition of right and wrong, a sixth adjutant function. But I believe philosophy is also supposed to involve the seventh, wisdom. Once the adjutant of wisdom is utilized, all the benefits of experience combine, and then the spirit of wisdom urges the mind to look even higher for solutions. At this point, the gateway to the soul can be opened, which would make it possible to utilize the worshipful form of discrimination to help discern what is truly right. Or, the person can be satisfied with the adjutant level and never try for anything higher. I think that is what they mean by stagnating due to cultural slavery.
101.7.4 The great difference between a religious and a nonreligious philosophy of living consists in the nature and level of recognized values and in the object of loyalties. There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.
Do you think PTSD is a conscience thing?
Depends on the cause. Post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury often coexist because brain injuries are frequently sustained in traumatic experiences. It doesn’t take much of a brain injury to cause problems in processing emotion. If there is actual physical injury, then the conscience may play a role in the manifestation of symptoms without being the cause. The biggest problem in treating PTSD is ignoring the fact that it may be caused by even minimal brain trauma. Too often it is treated as a psychological problem and treated with a pharmacy of psyche drugs which only make the brain malfunction worse. It’s a messy situation and our vets are so often the victims of this oversight.
For kicks, I did a search on the word conscientious, which I believe has the word conscience as its root. It means the desire to do what is right. The word appears in TUB 8 times and the word overconscientious shows up once only to say that it gets in the way of spiritual attainment.
34:7.7 Those God-knowing men and women who have been born of the Spirit experience no more conflict with their mortal natures than do the inhabitants of the most normal of worlds, planets which have never been tainted with sin nor touched by rebellion. Faith sons work on intellectual levels and live on spiritual planes far above the conflicts produced by unrestrained or unnatural physical desires. The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons.
My guess is that it stifles the creative imagination which can cause stagnation due to slavish conformity to cultural morality. When society teaches one thing and your inner convictions differ, there is conflict that must be solved. I think we are given those three cosmic insights in order to find a way to make it work without stagnating, caving in or sacrificing our principles and highest ideals. Jesus dared to break the morality code of his time by doing things on the sabbath that were considered immoral, in that they broke God’s law. He was a bit of a maverick, certainly not overly conscientious. He was more balanced because he could discriminate true value, but he had to learn how to do that, just like we do. He worked it out the way we are supposed to work it out.
124:4.9He was distraught by the conflict between the urge to be loyal to his own convictions and the conscientious admonition of dutiful submission to his parents; his supreme conflict was between two great commands which were uppermost in his youthful mind. The one was: “Be loyal to the dictates of your highest convictions of truth and righteousness.” The other was: “Honor your father and mother, for they have given you life and the nurture thereof.” However, he never shirked the responsibility of making the necessary daily adjustments between these realms of loyalty to one’s personal convictions and duty toward one’s family, and he achieved the satisfaction of effecting an increasingly harmonious blending of personal convictions and family obligations into a masterful concept of group solidarity based upon loyalty, fairness, tolerance, and love.
Thanks Bonita. If conscience means the desire to do what is right, then we can find all kinds of examples in the book and in this day and age of people who by their desire to do what is right demonstrate amazing bravery and courage against prejudice, intolerance, unfairness, and stupidity in spite of all manner of cruel treatment to them for taking a stand for what is right. I’m thinking of the civil rights movement in the USA. The story of the good Samaritan applies to doing what is right. Here is one about Jesus doing a miracle on the Sabbath to proclaim an open break with the Pharisees. This was intentional. Why?
164:3:16 Jesus gave this man his sight by miraculous working, on this Sabbath morning and in Jerusalem near the temple, for the prime purpose of making this act an open challenge to the Sanhedrin and all the Jewish teachers and religious leaders. This was his way of proclaiming an open break with the Pharisees. He was always positive in everything he did. And it was for the purpose of bringing these matters before the Sanhedrin that Jesus brought his two apostles to this man early in the afternoon of this Sabbath day and deliberately provoked those discussions which compelled the Pharisees to take notice of the miracle.Mara wrote: This was intentional. Why?I think it’s because of what I wrote in my last post There is a difference between doing what is culturally right and a higher “right”. Jesus was trying to show them there are higher levels of conduct worth pursuing rather than being tied to the letter of the law as written in the Torah. Jesus was able to discriminate what is truly right, in addition to what society says is right and work a deal. He was pushing the envelope, moving the fulcrum of decision making towards including spiritual insight. We need to utilize all three of the intuitions in the decision making process and not just follow society’s definition of right and wrong.
The Sanhedrin set the law on what was right and wrong back then, and they weren’t all that enlightened. It’s the same today. There are segments of society which cling to old mores and will not budge. Mores and ethics are supposed to grow, if not, we would still be burying our children in walls or eating them. Jesus was just giving them a little nudge, perhaps by awakening their consciences.
Bonita, thanks for shining your laser-light on this great topic. Your last two posts, about the way Jesus tried to nudge local sentiment, illuminate the issue beautifully
Nigel
And what about today? What shall we do to elevate this conscience, and the consciousness of where to find the greatest human knowledge of all, the Life and Teachings of Jesus? Many are looking for this like never before.
How will the flock be fed?
VanAmadon wrote: What shall we do to elevate this conscience . . .Which “we” are you referring to?
Nigel Nunn wrote: Bonita, thanks for shining your laser-light on this great topic.It is a great topic Nigel, and thanks to Mara for starting it. I’ve been reflecting on these issues for decades. New ideas keep popping up, along with new ways to integrate them all. So, I’m not sure how laser-like my ideas are, but I can surely say that it’s all been going around in circles in my mind for a long, long time, maybe picking up speed, I don’t know. It’s nice to have a place to discuss it and share it.VanAmadon wrote: What shall we do to elevate this conscience . . .Which “we” are you referring to?
We is us. We who know where to find the greatest of all human knowledge.
Who else?
And what about today? What shall we do to elevate this conscience, and the consciousness of where to find the greatest human knowledge of all, the Life and Teachings of Jesus? Many are looking for this like never before. How will the flock be fed?
Thanks to all…a fascinating topic and discussion. Very illuminating…whether by laser, flood, or flash LIGHT!! In reply to VanAmadon’s query above, I know of 3 ways that such elevation may be occurring. Let’s begin with the planetary/cultural effect/impact of the Spirit of Truth, the higher Adjutants (Holy Spirit), and the Angels of ______(fill in the blank). Their results create mass and momentum that serves the entire world. I agree with Mara that recent history of the past few centuries provides a glimpse:
Mara wrote:
Thanks Bonita. If conscience means the desire to do what is right, then we can find all kinds of examples in the book and in this day and age of people who by their desire to do what is right demonstrate amazing bravery and courage against prejudice, intolerance, unfairness, and stupidity in spite of all manner of cruel treatment to them for taking a stand for what is right. I’m thinking of the civil rights movement in the USA. The story of the good Samaritan applies to doing what is right.
This would be the individual’s response to the Spirit ministries that enthuses and inspires others to change and aspire and act and to choose differently than the “norms” imposed upon them, often despite the consequences of personal harm/cost but knowing that they must do so to satisfy and serve their own higher conscience! Related to this is the very real impact of “kindred spirits” who are energized and galvanized into functional groups of conscience driven activism which may share a spirit source if not always a “religious” cause – still a higher cause and one that lies outside current culture – I agree that abolition, suffrage, and resistance to the heavy hand of colonialism demonstrate such righteous if not religious issues which bring progressive results despite cultural resistance.
A third influence is the new instant global communication system that has suddenly delivered a dynamic and evolutionary thrust to “shared” conscience and timely group awareness which also means far more rapid “response” to societal challenges. So, I think the “flock” is being fed and is responding to the feeding in ways which nurture personal religiosity and spirit ministry by the Golden Rule methodology which then is, more and more, being translated to planetary progress at many levels. Transparency and accountability will, I believe, be served by all of these factors over time as the individual conscience becomes a shared conscience which demands fairness and justice…or equal protection under the law.
I know my answer lacks any form of purely religious or evangelical answer as to “what shall we do”. I have no answer to that except that we must each shine our light and the more who do so, the brighter that light will become for those who seek such light. We cannot make those who do not seek to seek I do not think….not ever by any means. The Spirit of Truth is restating the gospel of Jesus to every mind of every generation….I think the best “we” might do is to add our light by our example and by our own loving service to the greatest good for the greatest number.
Thanks again to all!!
We is us. We who know where to find the greatest of all human knowledge. Who else?
You didn’t answer the question. Which “we”, which “us”? Where does one find the greatest of all human knowledge?
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