UB consistency & typo

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  • #14217
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    Scaldihan
    Participant

    <!–more–>I’m a recently returned Urantia reader after a 30 year hiatus. Consistency & accuracy is something that I know I and many other readers care about, so I would like to hear more on the subject. Most claims of inaccuracy seem to me to be to narrow an interpretation of what’s written or a misreading of the book. But that has bothered me since I first picked up the book is the consistently misspelled word “insure” instead of “ensure” in American English. I realize that the English are more liberal in their spelling, but as published in America, there is a correct use of each spelling. I realize this is small, but the error has always bothered me. I was wondering if someone could address.

    Thanks!

    #14218
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    Scaldihan
    Participant

    :)

    #14223
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Scaldihan, the authors used insure, insuring, insured in 67 paragraphs. Ensure and ensuring are used not at all, but the word ensured does appear once, verifying that the authors and editors realized the difference. My old mid 20th century dictionary says the two can be used interchangeably. Yes insure does have a financial connotation, but it could also mean to ensure in the language of that day. I don’t see this as an error or a stumbling block.

    Richard E Warren

    #14224
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Insure means to secure and protect.  Ensure means to guarantee a certain outcome.  The prefix en- converts something to a given state, in this case a state of certainty.  The prefix in- is used to indicate a direction, in this case a direction toward protection and security. Our spiritual growth is not guaranteed; it is meant to proceed in a given direction of growth, Godward.

    God does not guarantee us a certain outcome, he does not ensure.  God does, however, insure us in countless ways. With his mercy credits, he secures our inheritance and protects our right to it.  Use of the word insure is completely appropriate in this regard, whereas use of the word ensure would be incorrect.  The two words have distinctly different usages.

    5:5.13 The indwelling of the Mystery Monitor constitutes the inception and insures the possibility of the potential of growth and survival of the immortal soul.

    In this quote, they are referring to the possibility of a direction of potential growth.  There is nothing guaranteed or ensured here.  The correct word is insure, which has to do with a potential state. Ensure would indicate an actual state of certainty concerning one’s choice for growth and survival, which would negate free will.

    #14225
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Good points Bonita,

    But still there is interchangeability between the two.

    From Merriam Webster – Insure : to make (something) sure, certain, or safe

    Richard E Warren

    #14226
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Yes, but the word insure is primarily an American word, and the UB  was written in America.  The meanings of these words have changed over the centuries. The use of the word insure to mean financial protection against loss is a rather modern application.

    #14227
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Touche, Bontia :) Let’s hear what Scaldihan in thinking now.

    Richard E Warren

    #14228
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    Anonymous
    Inactive

    There is more involved with this subject than just the spelling of these words where if one looks at the prefix’s “in-” and “en-“, there are some distinct meanings depending on whether being used as “American” verses “English (Oxford)” as follows:

    “in-“ and “en-“ for the root word “sure”

    But, what might be the indirect issue is that if the Urantia Book was verbally transcribed from dictation verses from presented text, there would have been an editing issue which was taken upon by the publishers or editors in the varied usage.  Therefore, unless these words where chosen depending on the context used, it would or could only be verified by the transcriber’s notes and any questions posed by the editors of the text.

    This may be the reason for the initial query of this topic, maybe not, but is still a valid point as to the authenticity for the editing to the text.

    #14229
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    Welcome Scaldi!

    I agree with you that words are important.  I’m of the opinion that spellings and meanings of words evolve over time.  And new and invented words are added to languages every year, according to the popularity of the usages.   I’ve heard it said that the UB is to last for a thousand years.  Well, imagine how the words in the book will seem to readers in one hundred or two hundred years from now!  Maybe the words will seem very archaic to people in that future time.

     

    Rick said his old mid 20th century dictionary says the two spelling you mention can be used interchangeably.  Bonita really nailed it when she said, “Insure means to secure and protect.  Ensure means to guarantee a certain outcome.”

     

    There is a relativity of interpretation when confronting word meanings.  Perhaps a consensus of interpretation of the meanings of insure v. ensure. for example, could be arrived at in a group setting where the wisdom of the group can discover the factors that bring balance to the meanings.  Rick and Bonita have demonstrated their approaches.  But in the end, after all is said and done, it’s up to the individual to sort these matters out.

     

    I interpret to secure, to protect and to guarantee as very similar in meaning.   :good:

     

    The book is now translated into more than a dozen languages.  Imagine how hard it is for the translation teams to determine a consensus when grappling with such words as you mention, as well as translating the difficult concepts given to us in some parts of this revelation!

    #14230
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    Scaldihan
    Participant

    Thanks Mara for the welcome! What a wonderfully thoughtful forum! At the outset I’d like to state that my discomfort of potential error has been satisfied. So if you’re a troll, please move on. If you’re interested in the topic, please read on.

    My satisfaction comes primarily from MidiChlorian’s comments, and to some extent, Rick’s. If there were human transcribers, is the original text word spelling really much different than a possible error of translation? Additionally, words change over time.

    My background is that of someone who has written extensively for 25 years with scores of editors and edited extensively for 12 years for dozens of writers. In all that time, I was consistently coached (and in turn coached) on the proper use of these words. As to my view on the word “sure” and its three most obvious variants, I like the following sentence —  “Before giving you a mortgage, I can assure you that you can be sure that the lender will ensure you insure your property.”

    Bonita, I’ve read many of your posts, agreeing with the vast majority, and sense that you are a creature of Mind whose loving faith is exemplified through your words, and no doubt, deeds. I’ve been greatly inspired by you words, and have been drawn to this forum in no small part due to your and a few others’ comments. In this particular instance, however, I would make the following two observations:

    1) the definition of ensure (and insure) is not “guarantee.” Guarantee is more properly a  synonym of both ensure and insure, but does not have identical meaning; indeed, ensure and insure are synonyms of each other. In some dictionaries, ensure and insure are incorrectly identified as homonyms despite distinctly different pronunciations, whoch has contributed to the confusion. The etymology of ensure is from Anglo-French many centuries ago, meaning to “make sure.” The verb is the important word here in my mind. It is active. It is not certainty, but the effort to make certain.

    The two, as  Rick points out, are often used interchangeably and described as so. In my training, “insure” meant either “to make whole” (typically by financial compensation)  or to mean a lesser version of “ensure” meaning to make effort toward being sure, but short of making sure. But I recognize that meanings may change. While my Webster dictionary (1990) defines ensure as to my understanding and contrasts this with insure which it describe as a financial term, I realize the term may have evolved from 1910s-1955. Moreover, it could have been merely a transcription issue as MidiChlorian proffers. So I withdraw my concern of grammatical error.

    2. Bonita, on  substantive  issue, I agree with your statements that God does not guarantee our survival, but would encourage you to reconsider the specific wording of 5:5.13. It speaks of the “possibility of potential growth.” I believe that not only does God insure, ensure, guarantee and promise this, it is his will.  It is the very essence and foundation of his plan of creation. God absolutely in my mind has developed a system which makes certain and guarantees that we are given the opportunity to choose to do his will and fuse with our Adjusters.

    Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses. Really enjoying the forum!

     

    #14234
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Thank YOU, and welcome to the Forum :)

    Richard E Warren

    #14237
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Scaldihan wrote:  God absolutely in my mind has developed a system which makes certain and guarantees that we are given the opportunity to choose to do his will and fuse with our Adjusters.

    Precisely . . . God insures an opportunity for soul survival.  It’s no different than buying life insurance to insure the opportunity for your family to financially survive your death.  God does not ensure survival; he does not make survival a certainty.  If God did ensure survival, we would not have the opportunity to choose.  To ensure survival makes it inevitable.  Survival is not a certainty; it is not inevitable.  In fact, one of the great gifts we’re given is a lack of certainty.  Without uncertainty, we would not have choices to make.  Ensuring survival would remove the opportunity that insurance provides.

    111:7.1 Uncertainty with security is the essence of the Paradise adventure — uncertainty in time and in mind, uncertainty as to the events of the unfolding Paradise ascent; security in spirit and in eternity, security in the unqualified trust of the creature son in the divine compassion and infinite love of the Universal Father; uncertainty as an inexperienced citizen of the universe; security as an ascending son in the universe mansions of an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Father.

    #14245
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    Scaldihan
    Participant

    Bonita,

    I agree. My point was only within the context of the definitional issues, whether ensure (or insure) is defined as guarantee or a lesser certainty, it does not qualify the statement in that paragraph, which does not refer to en-insuring or guaranteeing the outcome of growth, but only the “possibility of potential growth,” which is unqualified in itself, but acts as a double qualifier of the ascending mortal’s hoped-for growth. So the paragraph doesn’t seem to me to speak to differentiating the appropriate wording.

    But again, regardless of whether this is an issue of the evolution of words since the revelation, English-American linguistic differences, mere translation error as occurred in a few other places, or simply an uncommon but potentially legitimate word choice, I’m satisfied that it has no bearing on the accuracy of the revealed truths contained in TUB.

    #14247
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    Mark Kurtz
    Participant

    Thank you all for this mind exercise!  We all evolve better when we share sincerely with patience and kind tolerance demonstrated very nicely here in this topic.

    What is emerging for me is the importance of comprehending the teachings according to abilities. We are to be curious and we are to put forth effort as you all are here!  Helping each other to comprehend these marvelous teachings is a real service!

     

     

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