-
Posts
-
I am curious as to everyone’s thoughts on what is meant in TUB by the phrase “day of judgment”. It only appears in TUB 3 times; and only once is it a quote from Jesus, himself; otherwise, it is a general reference of others’ teachings or sayings.
The one time that Jesus uses that phrase is in paper 163:
163:6.5(1807.4) Then, speaking to all the disciples, he said: “You have heard how many cities and villages have received the good news of the kingdom, and how my ministers and teachers have been received by both the Jew and the gentile. And blessed indeed are these communities which have elected to believe the gospel of the kingdom. But woe upon the light-rejecting inhabitants of Chorazin, Bethsaida-Julias, and Capernaum, the cities which did not well receive these messengers. I declare that, if the mighty works done in these places had been done in Tyre and Sidon, the people of these so-called heathen cities would have long since repented in sackcloth and ashes. It shall indeed be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment.”
This is an interesting use of the phrase, in that it is referential to a geographic/ physical location. The term “judgment day” is used in paper 30:
30:4.11(341.1) 2. Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds. Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.” And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master’s resurrection on Urantia.
Where, in this context, “judgement day” seems to be referential to individuals (“surviving souls”) and a particular time/event rather than having anything to do with geographic location of groups of living human beings. What do you make of Jesus’ use of that phrase in paper 163?
Keryn wrote: I am curious as to everyone’s thoughts on what is meant in TUB by the phrase “day of judgment”.What an interesting question Keryn. Your point about geographic location makes me wonder if sleeping survivors are grouped by relationship with one anther, as for example by family lineage. I mention this only because I imagine the populations of the cities, towns and villages in those days were based on generations of families living there, both Jews and gentiles and others, even though traders and travelers passed through. Maybe a dispensational roll call even in modern times is like that where generations of sleeping survivors are grouped in families. But that is just my guess..To your question about what Jesus actually said to his students:[…] “ But woe upon the light-rejecting inhabitants of Chorazin, Bethsaida-Julias, and Capernaum, the cities which did not well receive these messengers. I declare that, if the mighty works done in these places had been done in Tyre and Sidon, the people of these so-called heathen cities would have long since repented in sackcloth and ashes. It shall indeed be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment.”.Jesus was making a comparison. I went back to the book to look over what happened in Tyre and in Sidon when he went there with his associates (his apostles and evangelists). They were received warmly by the gentiles. Tyre was a polyglot seaport and his teachings were gladly received there and in Sidon..( 156:2:4 ) In many ways these gentile believers appreciated Jesus’ teachings more fully than the Jews. Many of these Greek-speaking Syrophoenicians came to know not only that Jesus was like God but also that God was like Jesus. These so-called heathen achieved a good understanding of the Master’s teachings about the uniformity of the laws of this world and the entire universe. They grasped the teaching that God is no respecter of persons, races, or nations; that there is no favoritism with the Universal Father; that the universe is wholly and ever law-abiding and unfailingly dependable. These gentiles were not afraid of Jesus; they dared to accept his message. All down through the ages men have not been unable to comprehend Jesus; they have been afraid to..What happened in Chorazin? They went there a number of times, but the revelators tell us it was a bedrock of adversity. (146:4:6) (155:2:2) What happened in Bethsaida-Julias? Jesus fed about five thousand men, women, and children, but of the multitude whose bellies were full, only about five hundred persisted in following after him. (152:5:2) What happened in Capernaum? He spoke there in the synagogue service where he knew it would be the last time he would ever be permitted to speak in that synagogue (152:7:3) and where he delivered his epoch-making sermon. (153:0:3) Ironic isn’t it that Capernaum was Jesus’ home-away-from-home and where he previously conducted many Sabbath services. Jesus lived there for heaven sakes! But after that he was barred from the synagogue.
.
154:1:2 On Friday of this week official action was taken by the rulers of the Capernaum synagogue closing the house of God to Jesus and all his followers. This action was taken at the instigation of the Jerusalem Pharisees. Jairus resigned as chief ruler and openly aligned himself with Jesus..The comparison pertains to the cities whose inhabitants accepted Jesus and his messengers and those who did not. Face-to -face he talked to anyone in person everywhere he went. They cast their lot for or against him and counted themselves with him or against him. There was a parting of the ways. (153:2:5)I am going to explore why the word “captives” was used – …..”It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.”….
and who is the one who “said” that of Christ Michael…
Everyone gets their own personal “judgment day” – Aren’t we all glad that our eternal life won’t rest on the village gossip in the town where we “live” ;-)….so comforting to know we will be judged, as an Individual, with the MERCY of Jesus who has “been here and done that” on dark and confused Urantia, the world of the cross…scheesh…my imagination always pictures Morontia World One students taking a step back from me when they find out I am from Urantia – “…whoa, badarsse…”
Mara,
Thank you for your thoughtful response; it is fascinating to think about the family lineage angle on this. I’ve been pondering this question since I wrote the original post, and I have some additional thoughts. There are at least a couple of ways to approach the question of what is meant by “day of judgment”. One is, where/when does the ‘day’ part of the phrase occur? Does it occur in the material existence? Or the spiritual one?
We know from the quote in paper 30, as well as elsewhere in TUB, that judgment occurs after natural death.
The second approach to this question is the ‘judgment’ part of the phrase. Who does the judging? Does it refer to God making a determination as to our worthiness to continue on the ascension career? Or does it refer to our own free will decision to pursue the eternal path by choosing to follow, not our will, but God’s will? Is it our own judgment that is at issue on “the judgment day”?
If the latter is the case, the statement by Jesus that “It shall indeed be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment,” would make sense because the people living in those communities have already, for the most part, accepted the word of Jesus and are already following him. Therefore, after natural death, they are already of a mind to follow God’s will, moreso than those who lived in communities that had rejected Jesus’ teachings.
Found this text by key phrase search of “roll call”:
113:6.8 (1247.6) The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
189:3.3 (2024.5) Notwithstanding that countless individuals having personal seraphic guardians and those achieving the requisite attainment of spiritual personality progress had gone on to mansonia during the ages subsequent to the times of Adam and Eve, and though there had been many special and millennial resurrections of Urantia sons, this was the third of the planetary roll calls, or complete dispensational resurrections. The first occurred at the time of the arrival of the Planetary Prince, the second during the time of Adam, and this, the third, signalized the morontia resurrection, the mortal transit, of Jesus of Nazareth.
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.
Hello everyone, my take on this topic is in keeping with having faith that we live in a friendly universe and the focus of judgement is best served in arriving at that poise of a balanced personality which eventuates in charm. Our destiny is spiritual and that is certain. If that is the primary focus all else is covered.
The angels know us better than we know ourselves at this initial mortal stage of existence. The “Morontia World Seraphim—Transition Ministers” will assess each ascender and assist in showing each soul their true selves, how others see them. They are true friends who help you “to see yourself as others see you” and “to know yourself as angels know you.”
It is the task of the mind planners to study the nature, experience, and status of the Adjuster souls in transit through the mansion worlds and to facilitate their grouping for assignment and advancement. But these mind planners do not scheme, manipulate, or otherwise take advantage of the ignorance or other limitations of mansion world students. They are wholly fair and eminently just. They respect your newborn morontia will; they regard you as independent volitional beings, and they seek to encourage your speedy development and advancement. Here you are face to face with true friends and understanding counselors, angels who are really able to help you “to see yourself as others see you” and “to know yourself as angels know you.” [Paper 48:6.25, page 553:6]
Keryn wrote: One is, where/when does the ‘day’ part of the phrase occur? Does it occur in the material existence? Or the spiritual one?I think Bradly’s post is very helpful (#16820) in broadening information regards to your questions.Keryn wrote: Who does the judging?Hope this helps:( 15:12:2 ) The courts of the Ancients of Days are the high review tribunals for the spiritual adjudication of all component universes. The Sovereign Sons of the local universes are supreme in their own domains; they are subject to the supergovernment only in so far as they voluntarily submit matters for counsel or adjudication by the Ancients of Days except in matters involving the extinction of will creatures. Mandates of judgment originate in the local universes, but sentences involving the extinction of will creatures are always formulated on, and executed from, the headquarters of the superuniverse. The Sons of the local universes can decree the survival of mortal man, but only the Ancients of Days may sit in executive judgment on the issues of eternal life and death.( 33:7:1) The Master Son, Michael, is supremely concerned with but three things: creation, sustenance, and ministry. He does not personally participate in the judicial work of the universe. Creators never sit in judgment on their creatures; that is the exclusive function of creatures of high training and actual creature experience.Keryn wrote: Does it refer to God making a determination as to our worthiness to continue on the ascension career?.To God there are two great groups of people – those who desire to do his will and those who do not. Even so, the spirit spark in man constantly knocks on the door of man’s mind, submitting to the sovereignty of man’s will. Mind is the gateway to the spirit, but not the seat of it. Mind is the arena of choice. Faith is the key that unlocks the door. Even the faintest flicker of faith is nourished and built upon as the essential foundation of one’s ascension career.( 155:6:17) Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit..Keryn wrote: Is it our own judgment that is at issue on “the judgment day”?.No. Perhaps this will help:.( 1:3:7) In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.Having read the TUB front to back multiple times, I think I understand how the survival choice is made and the mercy credits, etc. that come into play after our natural death. However, I still do not understand Jesus’ statement about Tyre and Sidon, which seems to me to be referring to the material existence (in a specific geographic location), rather than the spiritual/ Mansion world existence.
Is there a “day of judgment” that occurs while we are on Urantia, living in New York or Cincinannati, Tyre or Sidon?
@Keryn – Good question and when added to your other question about who does the judging, let’s pray it is not done by those who are already soul dead, “From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.”
At least it is clear in TUB when “the cosmic standpoint” knows that a mortal is already dead.
As so often happens for me while reading TUB, a question arises, and the answer appears eventually as I continue reading. My reading for today brought me to paper 166, which includes this excerpt:
3. The Sermon at Gerasa
166:3.1(1828.5) As Jesus and the twelve visited with the messengers of the kingdom at Gerasa, one of the Pharisees who believed in him asked this question: “Lord, will there be few or many really saved?” And Jesus, answering, said:
166:3.2(1828.6)“You have been taught that only the children of Abraham will be saved; that only the gentiles of adoption can hope for salvation. Some of you have reasoned that, since the Scriptures record that only Caleb and Joshua from among all the hosts that went out of Egypt lived to enter the promised land, only a comparatively few of those who seek the kingdom of heaven shall find entrance thereto.
166:3.3(1828.7)“You also have another saying among you, and one that contains much truth: That the way which leads to eternal life is straight and narrow, that the door which leads thereto is likewise narrow so that, of those who seek salvation, few can find entrance through this door. You also have a teaching that the way which leads to destruction is broad, that the entrance thereto is wide, and that there are many who choose to go this way. And this proverb is not without its meaning. But I declare that salvation is first a matter of your personal choosing. Even if the door to the way of life is narrow, it is wide enough to admit all who sincerely seek to enter, for I am that door. And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.
166:3.4(1829.1)“But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness: Having refused to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience, they may subsequently seek entrance thereto when the glory of the better way becomes revealed in the age to come. And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut. This door is not open to those who would enter the kingdom for selfish glory. Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father’s will. When in spirit and soul you have turned your backs upon the Father’s kingdom, it is useless in mind and body to stand before this door and knock, saying, ‘Lord, open to us; we would also be great in the kingdom.’ Then will I declare that you are not of my fold. I will not receive you to be among those who have fought the good fight of faith and won the reward of unselfish service in the kingdom on earth. And when you say, ‘Did we not eat and drink with you, and did you not teach in our streets?’ then shall I again declare that you are spiritual strangers; that we were not fellow servants in the Father’s ministry of mercy on earth; that I do not know you; and then shall the Judge of all the earth say to you: ‘Depart from us, all you who have taken delight in the works of iniquity.’
So those who lived in Tyre and Sidon were accepting of Jesus’ teachings at the time he walked among them, so they are not ‘spiritual strangers’ to God but are already counted as among His flock, therefore, judgment will be more tolerable for them because their faith has opened the door. Those who were in the communities that rejected Jesus’ teachings are those who have turned their backs upon the Father’s kingdom.
I came back here because I wanted to mention that the Creator – in our case, the Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon AKA The Son of Man – Joshua ben Joseph with a Nazareth birth certificate – taught us well what the LAWS are by which we will be judged. Being as Creator Sons are “job creators”, if you will, the process that drives the ACT of judgment is delegated to those qualified by BIRTH – the Descenders – and those who earned their qualification – the Ascenders – to render the judgment. Jesus is uniquely merciful and the Judges respect that “tone” he set for them.
But you already found that for yourself in TUB, Keryn….lovely! Thanks!
I still have not found the passage that explains the use of the word “captives” – it’s never in the Paper you think it might be in and a word search is of no use for the explanation that I am looking for….
One other thought – a reminder about the premeditated turning of hair of truth – TUB is what Caligastia and his sycophants (he, too, is a job creator) left out of our “education” system for millenia….beware the “censor” who claims, with authority, that they can judge what is and what is not a “study” of cosmology….
Keryn wrote: …the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.Hi Keryn, this is a beautiful and positive message you have shared, it breeds confidence and erases doubt. Faith carries us all the way home no matter how long it takes. This is decreed by our Father and enshrined in universe law.@Keryn – still searching for an explanation to the use of the word “captives”….
Keryn wrote: So those who lived in Tyre and Sidon were accepting of Jesus’ teachings at the time he walked among them, so they are not ‘spiritual strangers’ to God but are already counted as among His flock, therefore, judgment will be more tolerable for them because their faith has opened the door. Those who were in the communities that rejected Jesus’ teachings are those who have turned their backs upon the Father’s kingdom.I got a laugh out of your comment about when a question that arises and the answer appears in the next few paragraphs. This happens all the time in our study group..You highlighted some sentences in your post that got me to thinking more about Tyre and Sidon. So I looked them up on a bible website to find out more, to whit, they were important ancient Phoenician seaport cities situated 25 miles apart in the narrow fertile plain between the mountains of Lebanon and Mediterranean. From the UB I discovered there were a series of spontaneous healings in those cities (among other cities) (149:1:2) of Greek speaking gentiles, as previously mentioned. Of Bethsaida-Julias, Capernaum and Chorazin in the book of Luke reports:.Luke 10:13-16 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be thrust down to Hades. He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”.This is the part you highlighted where it says, “And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut.” Do you suppose Jesus in the likeness of humanity, Jesus the Son of Man and the Son of God, is referring to those who rejected him face-to-face, rejected all his invitations, his offers, his proffers, his human breath and voice and call? Then when judgement day comes, those who refused salvation when he was here in the flesh he says, you had your chance, but now the door is closed? I’m asking about those people who walked on earth who met Jesus in person and rejected him in that time and generation only..Maybe what I just wrote is the same as what you said Keryn.
I took the longer route to get to the same place.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.