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Remember that it is the character of the personality that changes and it is the character of the personality that determines survivability. We are supposed to grow in divinity of character. It’s not a measure of how divine you are but the fact that your inherited character is growing in divinity (becoming more Godlike). Not everyone is born with good heredity when it comes to character. A bad character is difficult to overcome regardless of the environment, and a good character requires a proper environment in order to blossom. Remember what we were told about Cain and Abel when it comes to the interplay between inherited character and environment?
76:2.6 While a good environment cannot contribute much toward really overcoming the character handicaps of a base heredity, a bad environment can very effectively spoil an excellent inheritance, at least during the younger years of life. Good social environment and proper education are indispensable soil and atmosphere for getting the most out of a good inheritance.
76:2.6 While a good environment cannot contribute much toward really overcoming the character handicaps of a base heredity . . . .
What is a base heredity?
Mara wrote: What is a base heredity?A base heredity is an inherited character which is ignoble, low-minded, mean, immoral, improper, unscrupulous, unprincipled, dishonest, shameful, bad, wrong, evil, wicked.
A good inherited character is the opposite: noble, high-minded, kind, moral, proper, scrupulous, principled, honest, admirable, good, right, virtuous, righteous.
Just for fun, I thought I’d remind everyone of the fact that even though an identity may become extinct, personality survives as part of the Supreme (2:3.4). It’s not really personality survival, it’s identity survival. Personality is not identity; the two can be separated. Identity is merely an attribute of a unifying personality.
112:0.7 5. Personality, while devoid of identity, can unify the identity of any living energy system.
Bonita wrote: A base heredity is an inherited character which is ignoble, low-minded, mean, immoral, improper, unscrupulous, unprincipled, dishonest, shameful, bad, wrong, evil, wicked.Are you sure these are inherited? I was thinking more along the lines of the failure of the occurrence of the first moral choice of the human child, i.e. such a choice is not made, and therefore the seventh adjutant mind spirit is not activated, and therefore a Thought Adjuster is not dispatched from Divinington.Bonita wrote: . . . personality survives as part of the Supreme (2:3.4)Additionally, the personality of the nonascender returns to the Supreme, as a drop of water returns to the sea.117:4:4 The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a cosmic suicide will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea.Mara wrote: Are you sure these are inherited? I was thinking more along the lines of the failure of the occurrence of the first moral choice of the human child, i.e. such a choice is not made, and therefore the seventh adjutant mind spirit is not activated, and therefore a Thought Adjuster is not dispatched from Divinington.Yeah, I’m sure. A child that cannot make a moral choice in order to receive an Adjuster is not functioning on the human level, he has failed to humanize.
55:4.3 On the evolutionary worlds a being must humanize to receive a Thought Adjuster.
I don’t think there are many normal-minded children on this world who don’t make a moral decision and receive an Adjuster. However, there are a variety of types of mental handicaps that can result in dysmoral or amoral behavior, and most of them are hereditary. In one study of 240 children with ADHD, they discovered that those children with the COMT gene showed significantly greater antisocial behaviors than those without it. Granted, there are some acquired conditions caused by environmental accidents or non-hereditary illnesses which destroy the mind, but that’s a different group of people with a different set of circumstances.
One’s genetic make up determines the basic character, then environment affects it and a spirit-dominated personality transforms it. Even Jesus inherited certain character traits from each of his parents.
122:5.3 Jesus derived much of his unusual gentleness and marvelous sympathetic understanding of human nature from his father; he inherited his gift as a great teacher and his tremendous capacity for righteous indignation from his mother. In emotional reactions to his adult-life environment, Jesus was at one time like his father, meditative and worshipful, sometimes characterized by apparent sadness; but more often he drove forward in the manner of his mother’s optimistic and determined disposition. All in all, Mary’s temperament tended to dominate the career of the divine Son as he grew up and swung into the momentous strides of his adult life. In some particulars Jesus was a blending of his parents’ traits; in other respects he exhibited the traits of one in contrast with those of the other.
Yes, there’s a few places where its says that those aspects of the personality which have ‘survival value’ are carried on.
I tend to think that most folks with even the faintest flicker of faith will go on to the mansion worlds.
I’m sure its “possible” for an Earth-person to so whole-heartedly embrace the relative ‘un-reality’ of evil that we get ‘erased’
but it also says this usually only happens at the end of a planetary dispensation.In general, I read this and other passages to mean:
“You gotta work pretty hard at iniquity to be annihilated and most of us will continue to ascend”
That part in bold where it says “..becomes as though he had not been”
I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future.
So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces)
Do others interpret this differently?-paul
QUOTES:
2:3.2 …The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity.
2:3.4 When this sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been
I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future. So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces) Do others interpret this differently?
Yup! I certainly do. Why would celestials want to mess with history? Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that Hitler was annihilated and is now as though he never was. If all record of his existence was mysteriously erased from history, how would we explain a half century of the history of this planet. Things that happened cannot be erased, so how would they be explained? Did they just magically happen, or will all of Hitler’s actions also cease to exist? And would all the repercussions of Hitler’s actions also cease to exist? That can’t happen. Removing a personality, who was an integral part of what happened, would make history total nonsense. In sci-fi language, it would rip open the time-space continuum. It would create more chaos and confusion. The universe is not about chaos and confusion, and certainly things that have happened cannot be magically removed. Think about it.
What the quote is referring to is that all potentials associated with that individual identity are no longer capable of being expressed. It does not mean that all the actualities expressed by that individual are erased with him/her. No, we would all remember the iniquitous one and learn from the experience.
Think I’ll chime in on this one too…..the second half of the quote says the “identity” of the person ceases to exist. It does not say their experience or personality ceases….or their progeny or other temporal/ripple effects of their life. The consequences of the choices of such a person will continue until time itself and the universal response mechanism of love correct such effects in time and space. When a stone is dropped into the water, the waves so caused ripple and radiate outward despite the disappearance of the stone. Personality returns to its source. All choices/experiences of survival value have gone to the Supreme and are preserved by the TAs as experienced by them. I think that if and when Lucifer meets such an end, that he will still be known and the effects by his life will still take time to be absorbed by time. More importantly, the love response of our universe rulers and all others affected by his iniquity, and within the mercy time lag, is part of the forever-effects and experiences that result – agondontors come forth from such causes as an example of a positive response/effect from a negative cause/source of iniquity.
The effects by the cause of iniquity which are not true, beautiful, and good fade with time, while those responses to evil, sin, and iniquity which are true, beautiful, and good only become more magnified and amplified over time.
I certainly agree with Paul’s thinking that the “flicker” quote indicates the difficulty of self annihilation/erasure by our choices in this brief life and on this world….you cannot reject that reality of which you know nothing or do not believe in – that is not a conscious free will rejection or choice IMO.
…..When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.
Bradly wrote: It does not say their experience or personality ceases….or their progeny or other temporal/ripple effects of their life.Excellent point Bradly! I forgot about progeny. We know for a fact that only the perp has to pay for his/her sins. If progeny disappear too, then they’re paying the ultimate price for something they didn’t do. How cruel and unjust. Thankfully, the universe is compassionate and just, so that’s not gonna happen.
I’m pretty sure that many people do not understand the difference between personality and identity. Personality cannot be destroyed. Personality is a part of Divinity. Personality cannot be deprived of existence but it can have all its powers of choice removed. Stripped down, personality is pattern without power. It can do nothing. And without mind to make it conscious, it is nothing but unused potential. Personality without power gets absorbed into the experience of the Supreme. It’s just an isolated and empty shell, never to be animated again. The choice to separate itself from the eternal source of eternal identity, the Adjuster, is final. In the case of Lucifer, who has no Adjuster, his choice to fully separate himself from his father, Michael of Nebadon, and if it be final, would deny him of ongoing identity in the universe.
Bradly wrote: I think that if and when Lucifer meets such an end, that he will still be known and the effects by his life will still take time to be absorbed by time.When first brought this up I remember thinking how totally bizarre it all is to believe that annihilation removes all traces of the individual’s existence not only now and the future, but in the past as well. Can you imagine waking up the morning after Lucifer’s annihilation and going to your UB to find all mention of him gone? Whole papers would have to disappear in every UB ever printed. Even if your memory was wiped so that you didn’t know he existed, nor remember reading about him in the book, you’d have to be suspicious about something since the book would read very oddly. Since many of the rebels were not annihilated, the rebellion story would have to be told. How would the rebellion be described in TUB under such circumstances? What would they call the Lucifer Manifesto? Would they just write: “Bad things happened at this time and many personalities were affected but we cannot tell you much about it because there are enormous holes in the record concerning the events of those days.” You might go to the library and open reference books to find no mention of Lucifer there either. Would the Bible need to be altered too? Don’t know. It’s just ludicrous to think that the universe is like a Star Trek adventure where Dr. Crusher just erases your memory if you’ve come across something you’re not supposed to know. Give me a break. Do you think God the Father will forget about Lucifer and what he did, do you think his memory will be wiped too? Balderdash and poppycock on that load of tommyrot!
All good points. I am reminded of the positive effects that were delivered by the torture and murder of our Creator/Master Son and also the 1000 times more positive benefits than negative results already realized in Nebadon by the iniquities of Lucifer and his fellow rebel leaders. The mercy of Father and the Faith of the Son are demonstrated best sometimes only by the contrasts made apparent by evil and sin. How are we to know truth without falsehood as its counterpoint and contradiction? While such evil and sin are never the will of God, such results of creature free will do teach all who suffer the consequences and all who witness them as well.
Hate to beat an old drum….but what happens, whether good or bad, is always an opportunity for a response to what happens. We are to learn to respond at every intersection of relationship, situation, and circumstance in positive and proactive ways whereby we insert love and experience with faith-courage and conviction and thereby we give light, hope, succor, and sustenance to another, to one another, to the Supreme, and to our own soul and circle progress. It is not enough to avoid personal evil and sinful transgressions – we are taught and commanded by the Master to get in there, with love and wisdom, and turn dark causes into the effects of light and life and truth, beauty, and goodness. We are to learn the heavenly and divine art of lemonade making!!!
In this way….and only in this way….may we learn to embrace the thrill of uncertainty as we approach every intersection of choice and decision with full confidence in this friendly universe and in the way and will of God who allows the inherent errors of free will for the experience of correction, wisdom, and progress both personally and throughout time and space collectively as well.
I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future. So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces) Do others interpret this differently?
Yup! I certainly do. Why would celestials want to mess with history? Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that Hitler was annihilated and is now as though he never was. If all record of his existence was mysteriously erased from history, how would we explain a half century of the history of this planet. Things that happened cannot be erased, so how would they be explained?
Me:
Good answer and I would agree that erasing someone’s progeny seems unjust.
Given our current understanding of physics and things like Hugh Everett’s ‘many worlds’ theory, I’m not convinced that the ‘past’ or ‘history’ is as immutable as you’re trying to say (especially for these celestial folks who are not confined to the evolutionary worlds of time and space) so, for the sake of argument, yes, history would be different if Hitler truly “became as though he had never been”
but yes, I can accept that the cosmic annihilation is from the present and future, and not the past.
I’m less convinced by the ‘softening’ of the quote with ‘identity’ (or ‘personality’ either, which it says gets ‘reabsorbed’)
I’m glad I’m not the only one who took that phrase as presented, but I will concede that it does not go on to explicitly say that the past will change. -paul
More from Paper 2:
2:3.4 [continued] As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature’s failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life. When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.
Just to be complete, I think it’s important to recognize that identity and personality are not the same thing. For instance, when we die our identity has two parts, passive identity survives in the soul under the care of the guardian angel, and active identity survives with the Adjuster. The personality is elsewhere, and no one seems to know exactly where it is during the time from death to resurrection on the mansion worlds. We do know that the archangels have something to do with it, but details are lacking.
112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.
47.3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.
49:6.11 The arrival of an Adjuster constitutes identity in the eyes of the universe, and all indwelt beings are on the roll calls of justice.
If a person fails to survive, that means there’s no passive identity in the soul for the Adjuster to activate. The Adjuster doesn’t show up at the time of resurrection which means, no resurrection. The personality goes to the Supreme, the Adjuster keeps the active values of identity for himself, and the soul, or lack of soul, is nothing. Poof.
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