Looking for miracles in physical systems

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  • #23993
    Van Amadon
    Van Amadon
    Participant

    the good news is that false beliefs if not an end in themselves will evolve

    I’m not sure this is necessarily true in the modern case. Modernity is unique in its expulsion of God from the universe, unlike the Aristotle/Ptolemaic or medieval (Dante-an) Christian concept of the universe. I suspect that the pseudo-religions of materialism and secularism cannot evolve, because they either deny or seek to replace God. By doing so, they reject the reality of truth. I think they are self-glorified as “ends in themselves.” This is very apparent in the way they both assert they are absolutely true without offering any real proof, while at the same time asserting that truth is always relative and denying the existence of anything like absolute truth. Those who deny the reality of truth will not/cannot recognize it when it appears and, therefore, can never progressively evolve away from error and toward the truth.

    Those who embrace this crystallized way of approaching the truth are committed in their hearts in denying God because they think that they’re better than God. This modern psuedo-religion phenomenon of absolutely denying God is driven by pride and anger. They think that God cannot exist because if they were God, they would do a better job of it than he does. They’re angry with God (if he exists) for allowing so much suffering in the world, which is proof that he doesn’t exist, and that this way of thinking itself proves the superiority (to God) of anyone who thinks this way.

     

    #23994
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    George Park
    Participant

    It seems fairly clear that “this secuarlistic human society… is slowly disintegrating.” Since the fundamentally nihilistic doctrines of secularism and materialism are so deeply embedded in the modern attitude, it would seem the decline of western civilization must continue for some time. “The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster.” (195:8.13) Choices, including those made by leaders of society, have consequences which cannot always be avoided. Honestly, how can what is in place now ever evolve when God is rejected? Western society cannot survive as currently constituted. It must pass away, but we are promised that it will be replaced by an “enthralling epoch of social adjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.”

    But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man’s life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life. (195:6.4)

    A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment. (195:9.2)

     

    #23995
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    Gene
    Participant

    What do you think of this quote:

    195:8.10 Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.

    That is a hard one for me to reconcile because I see nationalism as preservation of all of the different races which were part of the Urantia plan and very important for more reasons than I am aware of. Maybe TUB’s nationalism is different and I got it wrong but:

    many think Nazi when this comes up but there is something of value in every race that requires exploitation and holding onto before we decide that putting it all together will be an improvement or not. Isn’t this eugenics that TUB states that we need to master as part of our survival and improvement?

    i can certainly invision that my stated concept above would be disastrous without God, and a real god, a living God that survives the destruction of organized religions. I don’t think there is enough wisdom on the planet to go down this road yet.

    what do you think?

    what do you think TUB concept of nationalism is?

    #24000
    Van Amadon
    Van Amadon
    Participant

     

    Nationalism as referred to in the Urantia Book, is not the same as how the idea is thought of today. In western civilization today, nationalism does not include the element of “war for gain” but is rather a reaction to “globalization”. At least how it’s not what eventually will evolve, a global society governed and constituted by the principles of the gospel of the kingdom and the revelations of the Urantia Book.

     

    #24003
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    what do you think TUB concept of nationalism is?

    I do think they are referring to racial, religious and  geopolitical components in regards to nationalism.   Nationalism implies a feeling of superiority over other races, religions or countries.  I think we saw the peak of nationalism during the last world war, yet it lingers in certain sectors and will continue to be a problem for a long while.  I think we are currently in an era of internationalism, which precedes globalism.  The process of moving from internationalism to globalism might take a millennium.  Just guessin’.

    #24011
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    growthingrace
    Participant

    I remember reading “The Grand Design” by Stephen Hawking and thinking, “How can someone so smart be so illogical?”  At one point he spends several paragraphs going through all of the things that had to happen just so for the universe to be created, and they all had to happen in just the right order within a specific time, at times at the right millisecond.  I read it in awe and amazement.  Then he concluded with basically a “and some God was supposed to have done all of that?” (seriously paraphrasing here, but basically his point.)  I was dumbfounded.  I developed the opinion from this that there are really different types of knowing.  I know God.  This is the ultimate goal for all of us, but not everybody learns at the same pace.  I realized that in this respect, I am more of a genius than Stephen Hawking!  Okay, TOTALLY KIDDING, but fun to say!

    But, while I recognize the dangers of materialism and secularism, I still personally believe that good will come of those scientists who are questioning God.  While they take it to extremes (we humans have a slight tendency of doing this) they are still destroying so many superstitions that have held people enslaved to religions for ages.  While science can never prove God (it is a piece of God, God is not a piece of science), I am curious to see whether the quest for knowledge will eventually lead to an understanding that science just can’t explain it all.

    I also agree with Bonita in that many people just don’t seem to understand that God can exist outside of a religion or how the bible has described Him.  I am always shocked when I hear scientists deny God based on things like the earth not being created in 7 days.  Again, this is SO amazing to me that these intelligent minds can’t understand that God can still exist, even if human beings have gotten many things wrong pertaining to him.  I believe this is part of the purpose of TUB, to give a new description of God as a logical, reasonable, loving, and consistent being that can be more easily accepted by the thinking mind.

    #24025
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    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Nicely put, growth-in-grace.  :good:

    This theme is playing out more often, that while rejecting the absurdities in some tribe’s sacred texts, there is no need to reject the author of reality.

    Nigel

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