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You hold a spiritual memory of a simple and uncomplicated faith that arises from “the sincere and trusting optimism of a believing child.” What an eternal treasure this spiritual pearl is.
Yes, but it is trust in a person, not an idea. The person part of faith is crucial. People can easily comprehend the idea of God, but consciousness of the presence of the person of God is something different. Actually, it is much easier to love and trust a person than an idea. Ideas are fleeting, persons are permanent. Ideas don’t give back, people do.
Even as a child, my understanding of God was a relationship with a person whom I knew as Jesus. He was God to me. I was fortunate to have a certain Bible storybook written for children with wonderfully illustrated pictures showing a smiling, loving Jesus with children on his lap. He played with them, he told them stories, he healed them, and he loved the little animals too. He was “all that.” I got that book when I was two and held onto it until my little sister came along and I went off to school. That image of Jesus and the stories about him laid the foundation for a lifelong love affair, which I think can never end. It’s rooted too deeply in the person I know as Jesus.
But let’s be honest about this. Life is complicated. The innocence of a child may make it easy to connect to the person Jesus, but there are plenty of things that can challenge that connection. What we call “maturity” made me think more than once that perhaps my simple faith in Jesus was actually immature, not well thought out. But luckily, my life was filled with many crises which kept me going back to him, my only true friend. And he never failed me, ever. I’m the one who would get distracted from time to time, but the inner call has always been very loud for me. Deafening, actually. That, I think, is because of the Thought Adjuster I’ve been blessed with and not because of anything special about me or my faith. Love is a two-way adventure.
I can tell you from experience that faith is a more or less completely mysterious idea for those who begin their search for God later in life. They typically lack this spiritual memory, so they really know only one end of the line you draw, the doubting end. For the material mind seeing is believing, so the idea of believing before seeing seems utterly backwards, like leaping before looking, reaching a conclusion before considering the evidence, putting the cart before the horse.
Yes, I’ve said many times on this forum that most people on this world think backwards. I don’t know how to fix that problem. But part of the problem is getting all tangled up in ideas about God and never getting to know him as a person. I don’t think you need spiritual memory for that. I mean, the guy lives in people’s heads for crying out loud. How is it that he can be ignored the way he is? It’s a puzzlement! The creator of the universe lives inside the head of almost every living person! How is it that people can miss someone so huge and so close? I think it’s a weakness derived from fear of being thought of as a sincere and trusting child.
And it begins to dawn that there is something beyond the satisfactions of a truly cosmic philosophy, something above the unbelief of mere intellectual certainty and conviction, something with the spiritual purity of “the sincere and trusting optimism of a believing child.”
Yeah, it’s recognition of God as a Father and Jesus as a friend. Both are people and young children are usually very accepting of people until they’re taught not to be. It’s not for nothing they begin the Book with the concept of Deity. God is a person and all the stuff people want to believe about God is tangential to the reality of his actual presence inside the mind, where he lives and very personally leads, enlightens and loves 24/7. It’s a truly good and beautiful thing.
p69:6 5:5.11 God-consciousness, as it is experienced by an evolving mortal of the realms, must consist of three varying factors, three differential levels of reality realization. There is first the mind consciousness—the comprehension of the idea of God. Then follows the soul consciousness—the realization of the ideal of God. Last, dawns the spirit consciousness—the realization of the spirit reality of God. By the unification of these factors of the divine realization, no matter how incomplete, the mortal personality at all times overspreads all conscious levels with a realization of the personality of God.
p1732:5 155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.
“Yes, but it is trust in a person, not an idea. The person part of faith is crucial. People can easily comprehend the idea of God, but consciousness of the presence of the person of God is something different. Actually, it is much easier to love and trust a person than an idea. Ideas are fleeting, persons are permanent. Ideas don’t give back, people do.”
I found a new word “to me anyway”
That may describe an ism that captures this idea: Hegelianism! No??
Just thinkinI found a new word “to me anyway” That may describe an ism that captures this idea: Hegelianism! No??
I don’t get the connection.
I found a new word “to me anyway” That may describe an ism that captures this idea: Hegelianism! No??
I don’t get the connection.
My bad
I have to express my thanks to this forum, which provides a somewhat rare opportunity in these times to hear the thoughts of other sincere religionists. It is heartening to find a place where some truth-seekers congregate and freely share their discoveries about God. This lively conversation on the natures of faith, doubt, belief, and unbelief and how they may be related to one another has been so enlightening and socializing.
While your religion is a matter of personal experience, it is most important that you should be exposed to the knowledge of a vast number of other religious experiences (the diverse interpretations of other and diverse mortals) to the end that you may prevent your religious life from becoming egocentric—circumscribed, selfish, and unsocial. (103:1.3)
Hegelianism is the philosophy of G. W. F. Hegel which can be summed up by the dictum that “the rational alone is real”,[1] which means that all reality is capable of being expressed in rational categories. His goal was to reduce reality to a more synthetic unity within the system of absolute idealism.- 19th-century philosophy
- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770 – 1831)
After reading this philosophy, I pull-out interesting thoughts.
Hegel preserves this essential Platonic and Kantian concern in the form of infinity going beyond the finite. 105:5.5
Hegel believed that the process of “becoming” is a higher expression of reality than the simple act of “being.” This contradicts Aristotle’s philosophy that being is higher than becoming, because that which is becoming has yet to attain perfection. 111:1.5
Thanks Gene.
p.s. hihihi, probably Bonita, Gene refered to his new “ism” ‘s word : Hegelianism as a philosophy whom “capture” certain truths !
Only Gene can precise his assertion.
‘This is Houston. Gene are you there?.’
I found a new word “to me anyway” That may describe an ism that captures this idea: Hegelianism! No??
I don’t get the connection.
My bad
Trying again
Here’s Webster’s explanation: : the philosophy of Hegel that places ultimate reality in ideas rather than in things and that uses dialectic to comprehend an absolute idea behind phenomenaI saw a connection
I saw a connection
A connection to what? Still lost.“Yes, but it is trust in a person, not an idea. The person part of faith is crucial. People can easily comprehend the idea of God, but consciousness of the presence of the person of God is something different. Actually, it is much easier to love and trust a person than an idea. Ideas are fleeting, persons are permanent. Ideas don’t give back, people do.”
Well here’s my thoughts: trust in a person, and as faith is the topic this person let’s call God. God being the absolute reality and discussion about faith in god being the dialectic or idea about faith. The absolute reality is not in this case simply an idea that can be comprehended by talking about it.
However, the words in TUB certainly brings us closer to comprehending faith.
On second thought, as TUB is a revelation, reading about faith could be described as dialectic??
Still just thinking out loud.Well here’s my thoughts: trust in a person, and as faith is the topic this person let’s call God. God being the absolute reality and discussion about faith in god being the dialectic or idea about faith. The absolute reality is not in this case simply an idea that can be comprehended by talking about it. However, the words in TUB certainly brings us closer to comprehending faith. On second thought, as TUB is a revelation, reading about faith could be described as dialectic?? Still just thinking out loud.
I need a translator. Sorry.
Gene,
On second thought, as TUB is a revelation, reading about faith could be described
as dialectic?an intellectual exchange of ideas. ????…. trying understand your point !
Gene,
On second thought, as TUB is a revelation, reading about faith could be described
as dialectic?an intellectual exchange of ideas. ????…. trying understand your point !
Dialectic, dialogue, discussion, exchange of ideas. Does faith happen or can it be described by exchanging ideas, discussion, dialogue, dialectic.
Maybe I can’t discribe what I’m thinking
SorryI guess what I was thinking was after reading about Heagelean I felt it a useful tool that could be applied to help think about faith and how it comes to us.
Can’t explain it any better.Dialectic, dialogue, discussion, exchange of ideas. Does faith happen or can it be described by exchanging ideas, discussion, dialogue, dialectic.
Faith is a relationship. The details of a relationship are only truly known by the persons in the relationship. For instance, your relationship with your wife is a private and intimate experience between the two of you. You could try to describe it to me but unless I’ve had a similar relationship, chances are it won’t mean much to me personally. It’s between the two of you. Likewise, my faith in God is a relationship with him. I can describe my faith to you, but unless you’ve had the same faith experience, I can talk all day and you won’t understand.
(1107.6) 101:2.16 Religion must ever be its own critic and judge; it can never be observed, much less understood, from the outside. Your only assurance of a personal God consists in your own insight as to your belief in, and experience with, things spiritual. To all of your fellows who have had a similar experience, no argument about the personality or reality of God is necessary, while to all other men who are not thus sure of God no possible argument could ever be truly convincing.
Or perhaps you’re wondering if it’s possible to instill faith in another person by talking about your own faith. I think it’s possible to inspire folks to look for faith, but it can’t be given to them by any of us. It’s a gift from God, and it’s given once a person begins to desire a relationship with him. Faith is a gift, but I can’t give it, nor can you. If you have faith, then have it to yourself. My faith is God’s trust in me when I express a willingness to trust him in return. God always makes the first move. Our job is to discover, recognize, interpret and choose it.
99:5.7 Let the term “faith” stand for the individual’s relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. “Have you faith? Then have it to yourself.”
What happens next are the fruits of the spirit which are offspring of the relationship, soul powers. Dialectic, dialogue, discussion, exchange of ideas are not fruits, but fruits of the spirit will give these things a spiritual fragrance because they become soul inspired. Remember, God is more than an idea. God is more than mind and thoughts. God is a person, a very lovely person who wants a relationship with you, just you, one-on-one. That’s the only way to have faith, and growing faith means growing trust: a greater willingness to engage in the one-on-one; a more open attitude toward being taught and lead; a greater desire to be like the one who is loved; greater courage to actually carry it out because life becomes a partnership; greater joy in living because life becomes more balanced; greater happiness because you’re never alone. Faith is a truly good and beautiful gift.
(1610.2) 143:2.7 “Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear. Your joy is born of trust in the divine word, and you shall not therefore be led to doubt the reality of the Father’s love and mercy. It is the very goodness of God that leads men into true and genuine repentance. Your secret of the mastery of self is bound up with your faith in the indwelling spirit, which ever works by love. Even this saving faith you have not of yourselves; it also is the gift of God. And if you are the children of this living faith, you are no longer the bondslaves of self but rather the triumphant masters of yourselves, the liberated sons of God.
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