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I do not believe that any of us has memory of the event. I don’t recall my first cravings for deity.
Well, I don’t know the exact first time, but I do have a distinct memory of craving deity. My parents and I moved into a house just before my first birthday and left just before my sixth birthday. I have distinct memories from living at that house. The earliest was a little golden book called The Story of Jesus. It had intriguing pictures that made me fall in love with Jesus, he seemed so kind and loving. My parents read it to me because I insisted and they told me I had learned to read it myself sometime in my third year. There were other Bible story books as well that I also cherished, but the Jesus book was the best. I distinctly remembering a fierce desire to meet Jesus, I wanted him in the worst way. He was more important to me than my own father, heck, even Santa. And incidentally, my parents were not religious; they never went to church. These books were gifts from other people. It was also in that house, sometime before we left, that I have a vivid memory of realizing that I was not alone in my mind. The specific memory centered around a strong desire to be alone with whatever this was. I climbed onto a ledge in my bedroom closet and sat by myself looking out the window into the treetops sharing the moment with this inner feeling. I now know it was the budding of my alter-ego, but was it also the budding of a relationship with deity? Looking back, I think it was, but of course I cannot know for sure. It’s just a supposition, but it is a powerful memory even today. Again at the age of eight, I suddenly became aware that this inner friend was alive and able to see the world through my eyes and share it with me. It was extremely comforting. But then again, I was going through troubling times with a sick and crazy mother. So . . . it could have all been my imagination. But why would I have the same inner feelings now into my golden years if it were a just a child’s dream? I tend to think something about it was and is very real since the feeling is still there. I don’t think I’m delusional (but then again, crazy people never do).
thx for sharing, what a beautiful memory.
i would call it deity craving and be good with it
my mom was a devout Mormon and brought me into the church at birth according to her journal. Baptism at 7 meant more to everyone else but me sorry to say. All I remember is hating it but complying because I had no choice. Deity craving happened in Southeast Asia at 18. At least it happened.
Gene wrote: I have it in my mind that spiritual growth cannot be separated from this. I believe that soul growth can be recognizable when we realize that we have actually contributed to the brotherhood of man. It must be part of our growth.I think you nailed it when you say spiritual growth cannot be separated from the concept of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. I don’t think we actually have to consciously realize our contribution however. True growth is unconscious, right?
Gene wrote: At least it happened.Right on!
Gene wrote: I have it in my mind that spiritual growth cannot be separated from this. I believe that soul growth can be recognizable when we realize that we have actually contributed to the brotherhood of man. It must be part of our growth.I think you nailed it when you say spiritual growth cannot be separated from the concept of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. I don’t think we actually have to consciously realize our contribution however. True growth is unconscious, right?
well this is what we are told. But we can recognize the presence of the soul. That is not unconscious. If we at least realize that our personality is cooperating with the spirit influences mentioned, we can at least assume we can recognize the soul above and beyond just simply static existence ??
When we do something completely unselfish for someone with zero expectation of anything in return there is a very unique feeling of satisfaction that only happens when this happens. I’ll call it soul growth recognition
Gene wrote: But we can recognize the presence of the soul.Yes, but that’s because there is someone living there other than yourself. What you recognize is presence. Soul consciousness is a consciousness of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth who live there, as well as a marginal conscious of the Adjuster presence who is associated with it. This sense of presence grows as the soul grows as does consciousness of a relationship with the Supreme. Soul growth increases the consciousness of Deity presence.
102:4.3 Man very early becomes conscious that he is not alone in the world or the universe. There develops a natural spontaneous self-consciousness of other-mindness in the environment of selfhood. Faith translates this natural experience into religion, the recognition of God as the reality — source, nature, and destiny — of other-mindness. But such a knowledge of God is ever and always a reality of personal experience. If God were not a personality, he could not become a living part of the real religious experience of a human personality.
Other related quotes: 0:6.8; 8:5.4; 9:2.5; 76:5.2; 117:6.5; 117:6.27; 110:6.16; 194:2.4
Gene wrote: If we at least realize that our personality is cooperating with the spirit influences mentioned, we can at least assume we can recognize the soul above and beyond just simply static existence ??Are you aware of cooperating with the spirit within you? I’m not always sure myself. I am very aware and sure of the presence of God within me. I am also aware of a constant desire to cooperate and deep hunger for succeeding in cooperating so I keep up a constant conversation with the Spirit presence within me. (By conversation I’m not suggesting that we’re actually talking words back and forth. I am not getting messages!) But despite that, I really don’t know with certainty that I am cooperating or just trying to cooperate. I know that my life is a happy one and I feel at peace with everything. So, what I am conscious of is striving to be Godlike. And that’s all I expect to be conscious of besides a friendly presence working on the same goal.
I do believe that we often don’t know what is Godlike (God’s will), but our attempts at discovering it gets translated by the Spirit of Truth for us and he presents it to the Father on our behalf. So, any transformations made by the Spirit of Truth on my behalf may not be 100% conscious to my material mind. I think these are the little gems of wholehearted and fully conscious desire that get registered in the soul (supermind) and then worked on while we sleep, as in this quote:
110:5.3 During the slumber season the Adjuster attempts to achieve only that which the will of the indwelt personality has previously fully approved by the decisions and choosings which were made during times of fully wakeful consciousness, and which have thereby become lodged in the realms of the supermind, the liaison domain of human and divine interrelationship.
Whether or not we recognize these spiritualized thoughts after the Adjuster works on them is another issue. Not all of them make their way into full conscious, but lie in wait for the opportune time for fruition. At least that’s how I understand it, and I can see it working this way in my life. I really don’t immediately know God’s way for everything in my life, but I know that if I keep the effort up (discovery, recognition, interpretation and choice), I will get closer and closer, which is all I think I can hope for. Trying to make measurements and assessments along the way I think is useless. At least it has never been useful to me.
Wonderful conversation, sharing….and teaching…thank you. I also do not worry overmuch about the wisdom or effects or immediate value of my service and love ministries…the Revelation has convinced me that it is the sincerity of motive, intent, and acts which are “valued” and the wisdom of those choices and acts will grow over time and by experience. I think most of our “work” in the spirit realms has to do first with this sincerity of intent and our comfort with the uncertainties of what-arrives-next on the pilgrim’s path and what the results-might-be by our choices. I think this has to do with our desire to align our will with God’s will – which has little enough to do with the material results and everything to do with the motive within. Such a yearning to love and serve God and our fellows will always eventuate into greater wisdom by the experience of success and error in our strategies and tactics. It’s not the strategies and tactics and results that grow soul into its destiny potential of fusion, it is I think the intensity and consistency of the “yearn” for the Spirit and the “response” to the Spirit that propels us forward into growth.
102:3.4 (1121.6) Religious desire is the hunger quest for divine reality. Religious experience is the realization of the consciousness of having found God. And when a human being does find God, there is experienced within the soul of that being such an indescribable restlessness of triumph in discovery that he is impelled to seek loving service-contact with his less illuminated fellows, not to disclose that he has found God, but rather to allow the overflow of the welling-up of eternal goodness within his own soul to refresh and ennoble his fellows. Real religion leads to increased social service.
Bonita…I would love to hear more about the soul being separate and different from “me”. I believe this…that I am one of the “parents” of my soul but it is a newer concept to me…my soul, this child of eternity potential, receives from me its non-material “genetic” materials that results from my yearning, choosing, growing, and doing? And that combined with the TA’s contributions of eternal value? But our soul is also “alive” and grows by integrating and collating all that is experienced by its “parents” that is of a real and eternal nature?
You may have already presented this….sorry but I am very busy recently…but following as I can. Thanks again.
Bradly
Bradly wrote: . . . I am very busy recently…Yeah! Well hello! It’s Christmas for crying out loud. It’s all about being busy (tongue in cheek). Anyway, I wish you and yours a very happy Christmas even though it is a Mithraic holiday co-opted by the Church to satisfy the pagans. It’s not without its symbolism however, so I like it.
Bradly wrote:I would love to hear more about the soul being separate and different from “me”.I’m sure you recall the definition of the soul in 0:5.10 which states that it is a new reality. If it’s something new it can’t be something that you are at the time of its creation. The “me” that mothered the soul cannot be the soul, not during the life in the flesh. Of course, after death things change, but for this discussion let’s say we’re only talking about this initial life and not the next.I think we already understand that your sense of self, your “me-ness” changes as you grow. The sense of selfhood is something that is transferrable. It’s called your identity and it represents the summation of your parts unified by your personality. Obviously, soul is one of your parts, but until you recognize and identify with it, it is separate from your sense of “me-ness”. Once the soul grows to a certain point, which we’re told it does in and of itself, your sense of “me-ness” begins to recognize it and add it to the summation of parts. Once the personality succeeds in unifying this new part, it can be said that identity has begun the transfer process.Bradly wrote: . . . this child of eternity potential, receives from me its non-material “genetic” materials that results from my yearning, choosing, growing, and doing?I think the soul does receive your material genetic substance since the material mind is its mother. The woof of morontia is physical (0:5.12). If you’re talking about actual physical chromosomes though, I’ll say no. But the character that results from those chromosomes, the genetic traits that color your personality, are transferred to the soul, but only after being spiritualized (or spiritized . . . can’t make up my mind how that goes). In other words, made divine, given that extra sparkle that tags something as worth keeping for eternity. It’s your material thoughts and actions that provide one component to the morontia level of reality in the individual soul.Bradly wrote:But our soul is also “alive” and grows by integrating and collating all that is experienced by its “parents” that is of a real and eternal nature?Will address this later. To be honest, I’m not 100% sure how the soul grows in and of itself and what this “life” it has on its own is all about. Perhaps we’ll solve it together. But later . . . I’m at the park working on a hotspot that keeps going in and out. Have fun until then.
(1209.3) 110:6.3 The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self — the whole self — material, intellectual, and spiritual.
(1209.4) 110:6.4 When the development of the intellectual nature proceeds faster than that of the spiritual, such a situation renders communication with the Thought Adjuster both difficult and dangerous. Likewise, overspiritual development tends to produce a fanatical and perverted interpretation of the spirit leadings of the divine indweller. Lack of spiritual capacity makes it very difficult to transmit to such a material intellect the spiritual truths resident in the higher superconsciousness. It is to the mind of perfect poise, housed in a body of clean habits, stabilized neural energies, and balanced chemical function — when the physical, mental, and spiritual powers are in triune harmony of development — that a maximum of light and truth can be imparted with a minimum of temporal danger or risk to the real welfare of such a being. By such a balanced growth does man ascend the circles of planetary progression one by one, from the seventh to the first.
Okay . . . sorry to blather on, but this is my most favorite subject in the whole world other than my kids, whom I can also talk endlessly about given the chance . . . . So, now that I’m inside out of the cold and enjoying the blessings of a hot wassail (with a just a whisper of rum, honest), it occurs to me that I’ve forgotten to mention some very key elements.
Souls are separate entities with their own lives. Yes, we are attached to them, but only if we choose and to the degree with which we choose. The soul dies only if there is nothing to nourish it. If it is abandoned by its material parent, it will eventually die. Anything worthwhile will stay with its spiritual parent. And I think that is because the spiritual parent never abandons anything or anyone. It’s always the other way around. God holds on. He’s dependable that way.
When I think of a soul having its own life, I think of the embryo. The embryo is separate from both the mother and father yet relies on the mother for nourishment for growth. In the case of the human embryo, the father contributes indirectly to growth through the yolk sac, but that’s getting into the weeds and not pertinent to the story. What I’m trying to say is that the human embryo is entirely different than both its parents, it is unique, and it will grow all by itself as long as there is some source of nourishment. I’m thinking the soul will do that as well whether or not we are conscious of our material contribution or the Adjuster’s spiritual contribution.
What is this power of life within the soul? I don’t know, but I think it is in everything created. They tell us that life renders systems capable of self-perpetuation (118:7.6). When you add personality to the mix, you get self-directiveness, the ability to choose a direction in which to grow, or not grow, as it were (118:7.6). I believe the soul has life and is therefore capable of self-perpetuation, but how it does that, I cannot say for sure. I can only surmise. (And you know I will, you can rely on it, wassail or not.)
I’m guessing the soul self-perpetuates by fostering a hunger for both spiritual potentials and material actuals to come together and add to its growth and well being. Like a newborn who has a naturally irritating cry when it needs food, I think the soul creates the same kind of unavoidable pestering, perhaps indirectly through the conscience, the spirits of worship and wisdom, or perhaps through angelic influence from the outside that stimulates the moral conscious, or how about the Holy Spirit, who knows all there is to know about us . . . I’m not really sure. But I am surely convinced that you have to actively ignore and willingly resist the cries of a hungry soul unless you’re born with some sort of mental or spiritual deficit unable to perceive it . . . like the man Jesus didn’t bother to teach because he was unable to benefit from it. I think there are some of those people around, but the average person must have some ability to hear, feel and sense the soul’s hungry cries for truth, beauty and goodness.
Anyway, I’ll leave it at that. Got a houseful coming. Need to get things in the oven and make the place all sparkly and fun! More later, I hope.
Back to deity craving – what we really crave is truth, beauty and goodness because that is really the only way we can relate to deity.
watch out when you spell deity, if you mistakenly put i before e like the rules say we should, spell check changes it to dirty.
No maybe a London accent is the rule here☺
watch out when you spell deity, if you mistakenly put i before e like the rules say we should, spell check changes it to dirty.
That’s a riot. Thanks for the warning. Have I done that? I’m guessing I have.
What you’re saying about gravity, I think you might be onto something there. We know that the material body responds to physical gravity, the mind responds to mind gravity, the personality responds to personality gravity, so the soul must respond to spiritual gravity . . . I’m guessing. So I’m also guessing we have to include a discussion on spiritual gravity too.
In regards to truth, beauty and goodness, I agree that we naturally crave these values of divinity. God is the Original truth, beauty and goodness. the origin of Divinity, and we actively strive to co-create a sub-Deity soul utilizing, as best we can, those divine patterns he provides. He gives us the building materials and we build.
Incidentally, if you don’t hyphenate co-create, spell check turns into concrete.
Help from biblical scholars??
this is close enough to mind stuff so it’s not a separate thread but I suppose it could be.
i cannot decipher the meaning of the prophet Johns vision inserted here in the paper about the Local Universe Mother Spirit just after a brief intro to the 7 Adjutants. I’m certain the author had a specific purpose to insert this here as well as what it means but i could decipher its meaning and escapes me.
any ideas?
john saw the system broadcasts and the directional control creatures (34:4.12 not included here) – he saw them as beasts and this explanation simply corrects that ??? That is all?
i feel like I’m missing the point.
why would his vision be of these beings anyway? what possible value could that have had??
(378.4) 34:4.10 The seven adjutant mind-spirits are the creation of the Divine Minister of a local universe. These mind-spirits are similar in character but diverse in power, and all partake alike of the nature of the Universe Spirit, although they are hardly regarded as personalities apart from their Mother Creator. The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition — of quick perception.
(378.5) 34:4.11 These are the “seven spirits of God,” “like lamps burning before the throne,” which the prophet saw in the symbols of vision. But he did not see the seats of the four and twenty sentinels about these seven adjutant mind-spirits. This record represents the confusion of two presentations, one pertaining to the universe headquarters and the other to the system capital. The seats of the four and twenty elders are on Jerusem, the headquarters of your local system of inhabited worlds.
- (378.6) 34:4.12 But it was of Salvington that John wrote: “And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices” — the universe broadcasts to the local systems. He also envisaged the directional control creatures of the local universe, the living compasses of the headquarters world. This directional control in Nebadon is maintained by the four control creatures of Salvington, who operate over the universe currents and are ably assisted by the first functioning mind-spirit, the adjutant of intuition, the spirit of “quick understanding.” But the description of these four creatures — called beasts — has been sadly marred; they are of unparalleled beauty and exquisite form.
this is close enough to mind stuff so it’s not a separate thread but I suppose it could be.
i cannot decipher the meaning of the prophet Johns vision inserted here in the paper about the Local Universe Mother Spirit just after a brief intro to the 7 Adjutants. I’m certain the author had a specific purpose to insert this here as well as what it means but i could decipher its meaning and escapes me.
any ideas?
john saw the system broadcasts and the directional control creatures (34:4.12 not included here) – he saw them as beasts and this explanation simply corrects that ??? That is all?
i feel like I’m missing the point.
why would his vision be of these beings anyway? what possible value could that have had??
You are correct “Gene” that this would be another topic but, let me tell you why I think so, and before, it is important to understand the complexity of both the UB and the Bible, narrations in that they are multiplexed and have overlaying topics and structure. Also what I will present is my opinion and should not be considered as scholarly intervention as to context.
(378.5) 34:4.11 These are the “seven spirits of God,” “like lamps burning before the throne,” which the prophet saw in the symbols of vision. But he did not see the seats of the four and twenty sentinels about these seven adjutant mind-spirits. This record represents the confusion of two presentations, one pertaining to the universe headquarters and the other to the system capital. The seats of the four and twenty elders are on Jerusem, the headquarters of your local system of inhabited worlds.
(378.6) 34:4.12 But it was of Salvington that John wrote: “And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices” — the universe broadcasts to the local systems. He also envisaged the directional control creatures of the local universe, the living compasses of the headquarters world. This directional control in Nebadon is maintained by the four control creatures of Salvington, who operate over the universe currents and are ably assisted by the first functioning mind-spirit, the adjutant of intuition, the spirit of “quick understanding.” But the description of these four creatures — called beasts — has been sadly marred; they are of unparalleled beauty and exquisite form.
The highlighted (in red) quotations above primarily come from Revelation 4:5, with the exception of the last one “quick understanding” which comes from Isaiah 11:3.
Revelation 4:5 Context
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Isaiah 11:3
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Where in UB “34:4.11” it is indicating that in the Biblical presentation of Revelation 4, it was misinterpreted or translated as being from the Vision cortex, where even I had translated Paper 46, as a primary description of the eye, but I would need to re-examine my translation to the brain stem area or parts thereof, or a multiple composition, when they said “The seats of the four and twenty elders are on Jerusem,” where comparing the Biblical with the UB, the “four and twenty elders” represent the 12 “Cranial nerves” that pair off to be 24 for both left and right sagittal planes, as indicated by “living compasses” representing “anatomical plane“.
If one assumes that much of the Biblical notation presented above like the “four beasts” as being parts of the brain like the “thalamus” translating to “the fourth beast was like a flying eagle” one might better understand what is being described.
However, as I said this is off topic and will be contradicted by many, but again some of us see things differently in our minds, and can associate patterns differently, and may have a “quick understanding” when looking these patterns up in other areas that may have also been seen and can associate these word symbols to pictures once seen or other things heard.
I don’t expect anyone to understand what I have presented but that it is one possible interpretation only.
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