Tried to explain

Gene wrote: when I tried during a serious discussion-to give my idea of how personal experience, spirit of truth, adjusters functions as my religious experience he calls me narcissistic.

First of all, this type of person is generally not interested in your ideas or your personal experiences.  In my experience it’s a total waste of time trying to share your personal insights unless you attend the same church and confess the same ideology.  The only way to “crack the nut” is to give your total, complete and undivided attention to the other person’s expression of his/her ideas and experiences; really listen.  And while listening, actively strive to find something you can accept as true, then share that with one another without setting off alarms.  Eventually trust develops and you can expand gently.

But, you have to have genuine interest in the other person’s beliefs and you have to have a truly solid understanding of your own in order to do this.  You let the other person do all the talking,  you agree and participate gently on areas of mutual agreement, and stretch the conversation to allow a little more truth to creep in without disturbing the guard dogs.  It’s a stealth maneuver, but it only works if you are gracious, sincere and confident without being cocky.

In regards to being called a narcissist, consider the fact that most evangelicals believe that all religion comes from the heart, not the head.  “Head” religion is science to an evangelical and science is scary.  “Head” religion is also philosophy to an evangelical, and philosophy tends to dampen the emotions which is anti-religious in their world.  “Heart” religion is all about feelings, not thoughts.  A God who is interested in your thoughts is a strange God to an evangelical who is primarily guided by religious emotions.  Emotions have a tendency to get frothy or fanatical, so you have to be very, very careful not to arouse them in the relationship.  You have to sneak logic and reason in gently without disturbing the “sentinels surrounding the sentimental citadel”, if you get my drift. (I love alliteration.)

I would ask your son if he believes in the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, and if the Holy Ghost has anything to do with the soul.  If he believes that the Holy Ghost is the same as the Comforter, or Helper, then he must accept the idea that the Comforter is in contact with the soul.  For an evangelical, the soul is the seat of religious emotions, not religious thought, so talk up the Comforter in ways you can both relate to in terms of helping the soul with religious feelings. That’s one way to reveal that God lives within a person and can be contacted personally. John writes that Jesus specifically sent the Comforter to guide people in all truth.  How does your son think the Comforter does that if not within the mind?  But be careful about the mind thing.  Call it the heart, or soul, but not the mind.  Few people realize that the soul is part of the mind, so don’t go there.  Not even all TUB-ists understand that . . .  so, it’s the HEART, baby . . . HEART-TO-HEART.

John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to you.

John 15:26 When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

John 16:7-8 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

I have the exact opposite problem with my sons who are analytical and philosophical.  They have enormous problems with the God-of-the-Heart thing. They think God is a mathematical formula . . . which pushes all my buttons the wrong way because they deny the personality of God.  (It’s my fault because I sent them to a parochial private school which probably put too much stress on the personality of the OT God.)  My discussions with them have to be MIND-TO-MIND, and that is okay by me ’cause I’m good at that.  Not so good with the touchy-feely, save-me-the-sinner, happy-clappy, praise-craze, crowd.  Really don’t like that stuff . . .

Good luck.

Gene, I concur with much of Bonita’s response and would add the Revelators remind us of the Father’s universal decree that each person is sovereign over their will. We could ask ourselves, why fight that profound law?!!!! Evangelism is a human mind activity, but as we know, it can cause a lot of strife while ignoring the Father’s law!

There is profoundly important counsel given to Ganid advising friendship. He told Ganid to be alert to do something for them you know they would want done. (130:7.2) This counsel seems right for all people for all time, on through the Mansion Worlds and Nebadon enduring. And this counsel may help us mitigate strong urges to correct other people!

I know of my own mistakes.

Blessings to you and all,

Gene wrote:

I had no right to have a religion outside of the Bible, the Bible is the law – I was a blasphemor as well.

But the Holy Ghost is in the Bible, it is the law of the Bible and the Bible clearly says that the Helper will guide and speak to each person.  It’s in there in black and white. Don’t know how he could possibly deny it if you should choose to ever talk about it.

Gene wrote:

we can live our religion as we should but sharing it intellectually really needs to happen as well imho.

Well sure!  Don’t forget the elliptic symmetry of all reality.  The intellect cannot be left out, we know that.  It’s just that the intellect is scary for a lot of evangelicals.  It is the source of doubt and doubt is another word for the devil as far as they’re concerned.  These people live in constant fear which they assuage by doing good works and testifying their faith. Problem is, their faith is obtained by strict adherence to their church’s dogma.  The church dictates their faith. They unfortunately don’t know that faith is a gift directly from God, not from an organized religion.  You have to be able to fully trust God in order to have an independent faith, and I don’t think these folks feel safe letting go of dogma and going it alone in a one-on-one directly with God.  Until they do, there’s little chance they’ll trust  the inner God we know as the Thought Adjuster.  Little chance at all.

Your son is scared.  Scared people seek safety.  Being “born again” and part of a “born again” community is a safe zone, asylum from the devil who they think is always knocking on their door.  They have to constantly repent their sins since they adhere to the doctrine of original sin.  That means your son always feels threatened, always needs to seek safety and will run like hell from anything that makes him feel insecure.  I think you should give up talking religion with him and just work on making him feel comfortable around you.  Personally, I’d give it up.  It’s not worth it.  Scared people are not really sane . . . they tend to do unreasonable things based on fear.  It’s a really serious human weakness.  None of us are completely immune from it, if you’re honest with yourself.  I think that’s why Jesus said, “fear not” so often.  Trust is not a human characteristic.  It’s a divine characteristic which needs to evolve.  I would work on developing trust between the two of you and forget religion.  When it comes down to it, religion doesn’t really matter in a relationship.  It’s the relationship that matters; it’s an end in itself.  I think the relationship actually IS the religion, not all the other stuff.

p1228:3 112:2.4 All mortal concepts of reality are based on the assumption of the actuality of human personality; all concepts of superhuman realities are based on the experience of the human personality with and in the cosmic realities of certain associated spiritual entities and divine personalities. Everything nonspiritual in human experience, excepting personality, is a means to an end. Every true relationship of mortal man with other persons—human or divine—is an end in itself. And such fellowship with the personality of Deity is the eternal goal of universe ascension.

Jeen, you asked “but he does believe in personal revelation. How does one believe in personal revelation and not realize values not outlined in traditional texts?” If he is a born again Christian of the assembilies of god type, ex, pinacostal, then he believes in revelation as long as it supports, or doesn’t contradict, what he already believes. I attended a church that believed in so called profits. The pastor would read transcripts of these prophecies to us, and would also play sections of recordings that they made. I myself went to see one of these prophets or would it be profit… I’m not going to google the right spelling, and what he said was so vague as to be laughable. When I pointed out later to one of the church members the test of a biblical profit that what he said had to come to pass or else he wasn’t real he told me that he didn’t think about it. The tone of voice that he used implied that it wasn’t a deliberate act on his part, but that he simply didn’t consider it. The statement was made after the person told me that he saw a profit that told a member of the audience with a missing arm that it would be restored before he came back. I then said that if that didn’t come to pass that according to the bible he was a false profit. “I never thought of that” was his reply. And this was the assistant pastor I was talking to!

If his religion is open to miracles then he would fall into the same cattagory. As for other texts, while studying other religions is part of a pastors’ training, I get the impression that it is a surface study, not a detailed one… sort of like we did in Highschool and to a lesser extent, college history classes. They study enough to know them on the surface, but don’t take it any further. As for me, I simply don’t share my religious beliefs with anyone outside the ub study group. I may try to insert a common theme here and there at church, but for the most part I avoid disscussions of a religious nature if I can help it. If I know that the person is conservative and we discuss religion I simply agree with him and move on. Same thing with the moderates and liberals I meet as well. I don’t bring up concepts from TUB unless I’m fairly sure that the person is open to them. The few times I actually tried to bring TUB into it either openly or covertly I got in trouble. I did introduce TUB to someone that is currently reading it though, so maybe it’ll bare fruit.

(141:6.2) When Simon Zelotes and Jesus were alone, Simon asked the Master: “Why is it that I could not persuade him? Why did he so resist me and so readily lend an ear to you?” Jesus answered: “Simon, Simon, how many times have I instructed you to refrain from all efforts to take something out of the hearts of those who seek salvation? How often have I told you to labor only to put something into these hungry souls? Lead men into the kingdom, and the great and living truths of the kingdom will presently drive out all serious error. When you have presented to mortal man the good news that God is his Father, you can the easier persuade him that he is in reality a son of God. And having done that, you have brought the light of salvation to the one who sits in darkness. Simon, when the Son of Man came first to you, did he come denouncing Moses and the prophets and proclaiming a new and better way of life? No. I came not to take away that which you had from your forefathers but to show you the perfected vision of that which your fathers saw only in part. Go then, Simon, teaching and preaching the kingdom, and when you have a man safely and securely within the kingdom, then is the time, when such a one shall come to you with inquiries, to impart instruction having to do with the progressive advancement of the soul within the divine kingdom.”

(156:5.13) Every day a true believer lives, he finds it easier to do the right thing.