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The Urantia Book contains information about human genesis and the authors caution us to be careful. Too rapid changes would be disastrous.
Note this TED talk about editing DNA.
Hi Mark! Thanks for posting this….really most interesting! We now have the ability to accelerate our own evolution with exciting prospects for a potentially better future for all. But do we have the wisdom to do it humanely, fairly, justly, and compassionately?
These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4
Julian,
I have a strong “gut” feeling the UB authors are correct in wanting us to “clean” humanity, although they don’t quite say so directly. That’s a strong inference, but one can see there are folks who are backward. They do say the problem is largely ours to solve. The danger is that we err badly somewhere.
A prime confounding factor is our concept of rights. We have “God-given” rights, legal rights, et al. Who decides what persons are degenerates without violating someone’s right to live or procreate? A passionate discussion is likely and human beings would easily stray off topic to include all manner of rights and related concerns. Who has the bravery to step up and begin the conversation?
I have long felt, at least for the USA, we will need a new discussion and eventual re-definition of rights. I believe the TUB defines rights as privileges granted by higher authority. Until we have a more spiritually oriented populace, this discussion would be lost to fights of profound magnitude. Note the lady warns us to be wise.
I have no comment about the science here; not qualified to comment.
I think we need to recognize a new human right, an infant’s right to a good set of genes. Shouldn’t this be fundamental to a healthy society? How can we continue to reproduce the 3500 genetic diseases that we now have in the human gene pool, and still call ourselves compassionate? Every child is, or should be, entitled to a disease free set of genes, especially now that we know how to do this.
But there is one thing we should never do, use force. Coercion would be the worst possible method to achieve this good end, education the best. Slow and steady is the way, always with love and respect for the individual, with a goal of the greatest good for the greatest number. A delicate but attainable balance, no?
Richard E Warren
I have no comment about the science. . . .
But science is going forward to “control” human diseases. With the lessening of war and the increase of disease control, the revealors say overpopulation may become a serious problem “in the near future”. Near future? “Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal?”
68:6:11 From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind..The average and the normal should be fostered. Julian reminds us:.Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4.How do we “disfellowship” our more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks?Indeed, Mara. This part of TUB really caught my attention many years ago and I still have little clue how mankind must approach this developing issue. Never fear, faith and the Father’s timing will reveal the answers. That’s about all I can contribute.
China’s recent decision to allow two babies is a related factor in the “how to” dilemma question. But, the allowance of some subnormals for “veritable slavery and bondage” will be an obstacle for discussion. All this is part of the path to Light and Life!
If you are going to snag just one cut and paste job from TUB, should it not be this one so that new readers do not think that any HUMAN has a sane clue on how to tinker with DNA strands, nanoautonutbot implants in the brain, toxic chemical invasions, and radioactivity and magnets to alter the NORMAL responses of the first five mind adjutants…?
118:9.2 (1303.3) Mechanisms produced by higher minds function to liberate their creative sources but to some degree unvaryingly limit the action of all subordinate intelligences. To the creatures of the universes this limitation becomes apparent as the mechanism of the universes. Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign.
118:9.3 (1303.4) The life mechanism of the mortal personality, the human body, is the product of supermortal creative design; therefore it can never be perfectly controlled by man himself. Only when ascending man, in liaison with the fused Adjuster, self-creates the mechanism for personality expression, will he achieve perfected control thereof.
118:9.4 (1303.5) The grand universe is mechanism as well as organism, mechanical and living — a living mechanism activated by a Supreme Mind, co-ordinating with a Supreme Spirit, and finding expression on maximum levels of power and personality unification as the Supreme Being. But to deny the mechanism of the finite creation is to deny fact and to disregard reality.
118:9.5 (1303.6) Mechanisms are the products of mind, creative mind acting on and in cosmic potentials. Mechanisms are the fixed crystallizations of Creator thought, and they ever function true to the volitional concept that gave them origin. But the purposiveness of any mechanism is in its origin, not in its function.”
Van was probably also not illiterate, so what happened to any SOPs he had written down….? Yup, more questions than answers in the NUMEROUS places that address “dna” challenges left to 21st century humans…
Page 760 – “Notwithstanding the terrible setback of rebellion there were many good strains of biologic promise on earth. Under the supervision of the Melchizedek receivers, Van and Amadon continued the work of fostering the natural evolution of the human race, carrying forward the physical evolution of man until ir reached the culminating attainment which warranted the dispatch of a Material Son and Daughter to Urantia.”
Let’s make TUB/DNA learning fun, for once. Bring out the “positive”. Nothing easier than playing a game where everyone actually follows the same rules for fairness’s sake, right?
So everyone contribute one more “dna” cut and paste quote – maybe that one about the conference Adam had with Caligastia to try and put their genius gene heads together to unravel the genetic mess…or the one about how the Life Carriers CLEARLY state why mechanical intervention by anyone, much less the creature, is not a good idea since their design will stand the test of time…or we could go “social” and quote where even the violet blood admixed with defaulted blood ended up producing a degenerate strain using cannibalism to stay in “power”…?
Nope, one singular quote just will not due, especially for new readers to grasp the big picture, and especially not for vast majority of humanity who has no clue TUB exists – which fact alone makes it so unfair, and even more dangerous, if the “dna” tinkering course is going to be set by the 3 people commenting on the “dna” investment excitement that one plutocrat “believes” in here on this thread…
What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering?
Sabinatu wrote: …many good strains of biologic promise on earth.Hi Sab I wonder if you or any others here, are considering that Urantia has one additional unplanned racial group in its DNA mix…….the Nodites……….the 8th race?The line of inheritance which, among other benefits, in the early days of the second garden, furnished one half of the ancestry for the secondary order of midway creatures.The physical members of the Prince’s staff had been constituted sex creatures for the purpose of participating in the plan of procreating offspring embodying the combined qualities of their special order united with those of the selected stock of the Andon tribes, and all of this was in anticipation of the subsequent appearance of Adam.… [Paper 77:2.2, page 856.5]Now comes an interesting bit about what the Life Carriers had originally planned………….an aristocracy of benign leadership:…The Life Carriers had planned a new type of mortal embracing the union of the conjoint offspring of the Prince’s staff with the first-generation offspring of Adam and Eve. They had thus projected a plan envisioning a new order of planetary creatures whom they hoped would become the teacher-rulers of human society. Such beings were designed for social sovereignty, not civil sovereignty. But since this project almost completely miscarried, we shall never know what an aristocracy of benign leadership and matchless culture Urantia was thus deprived of. For when the corporeal staff later reproduced, it was subsequent to the rebellion and after they had been deprived of their connection with the life currents of the system. [Paper77:2.2, page 856.5]The resultant Nodite race was a definite upstepping to the human gene pool, unexpected excellence, physically, intellectually and spiritually.Since the one hundred corporeal members of the Prince’s staff carried germ plasm of the Andonic human strains, it would naturally be expected that, if they engaged in sexual reproduction, their progeny would altogether resemble the offspring of other Andonite parents. But when the sixty rebels of the staff, the followers of Nod, actually engaged in sexual reproduction, their children proved to be far superior in almost every way to both the Andonite and the Sangik peoples. This unexpected excellence characterized not only physical and intellectual qualities but also spiritual capacities. [Paper 77:2.4, page 857.1]
The inheritance factors were due to changes in the life plasm due to the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system which caused chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize.
These mutant traits appearing in the first Nodite generation resulted from certain changes which had been wrought in the configuration and in the chemical constituents of the inheritance factors of the Andonic germ plasm. These changes were caused by the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system. These life circuits caused the chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize more after the patterns of the standardized Satania specialization of the ordained Nebadon life manifestation. The technique of this germ plasm metamorphosis by the action of the system life currents is not unlike those procedures whereby Urantia scientists modify the germ plasm of plants and animals by the use of X rays. [Paper 77:2.5, page 857.2]
Sab, I know we do not have in place yet, respected leaders who are sufficiently wise to administer programs which foster conservation of the higher human strains while discouraging the proliferation of the lower strains, however, I’m thinking, we should take note of the lessons from Paper 72 “Government on a Neighboring Planet.”
I am asking everyone “human’, all races, the same question – “What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering?
Adam and Eve’s resume, in part:
74:1.2 (828.3) “At the time Adam was chosen to come to Urantia, he was employed, with his mate, in the trial-and-testing physical laboratories of Jerusem. For more than fifteen thousand years they had been directors of the division of experimental energy as applied to the modification of living forms. Long before this they had been teachers in the citizenship schools for new arrivals on Jerusem. And all this should be borne in mind in connection with the narration of their subsequent conduct on Urantia.”
And this “truth” zinged over everyone’s head, proving much more “education” is needed, even the Vorondadek Son who authored The Life Carriers Paper 36 noted that there is something about the life spark that “are not altogether clear to us”:
36:6.7 (404.5) “There are some things connected with the elaboration of life on the evolutionary planets which are not altogether clear to us. We fully comprehend the physical organization of the electrochemical formulas of the Life Carriers, but we do not wholly understand the nature and source of thelife-activation spark. We know that life flows from the Father through the Son and by the Spirit. It is more than possible that the Master Spirits are the sevenfold channel of the river of life which is poured out upon all creation. But we do not comprehend the technique whereby the supervising Master Spirit participates in the initial episode of life bestowal on a new planet. The Ancients of Days, we are confident, also have some part in this inauguration of life on a new world, but we are wholly ignorant of the nature thereof. We do know that the Universe Mother Spirit actually vitalizes the lifeless patterns and imparts to such activated plasm the prerogatives of organismal reproduction. We observe that these three are the levels of God the Sevenfold, sometimes designated as the Supreme Creators of time and space; but otherwise we know little more than Urantia mortals — simply that concept is inherent in the Father, expression in the Son, and life realization in the Spirit.”
You cannot possibly suggest that “Nodites” know more than Life Carriers, Vorondadek Sons, and Material Sons and Daughters combined when it comes to mechanistic tinkering with “supermortal Design”?! Yikes. That is cosmically insane hubris, imo.
Even humble little paragraphs like this one never cleared up the raging debates on “when life begins?’ because the creature still did not understand the info provided well enough to ask the right question:
36:6.2 (403.7) “Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind. Spirit takes origin only from spirit ancestors. The creature may produce the forms of life, but only a creator personality or a creative force can supply the activating living spark.”
Like I said before, how about some NEW cut and paste jobs from TUB about the life-style choices the Nodites made over time that wiped out all that “superiority” – like this one about “modern warfare”:
70:2.9 (785.14) War has had a certain evolutionary and selective value, but like slavery, it must sometime be abandoned as civilization slowly advances. Olden wars promoted travel and cultural intercourse; these ends are now better served by modern methods of transport and communication. Olden wars strengthened nations, but modern struggles disrupt civilized culture. Ancient warfare resulted in the decimation of inferior peoples; the net result of modern conflict is the selective destruction of the best human stocks. Early wars promoted organization and efficiency, but these have now become the aims of modern industry. During past ages war was a social ferment which pushed civilization forward; this result is now better attained by ambition and invention. Ancient warfare supported the concept of a God of battles, but modern man has been told that God is love. War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming culturally bankrupt — incapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation.
70:2.10 (786.1) At one time physicians believed in bloodletting as a cure for many diseases, but they have since discovered better remedies for most of these disorders. And so must the international bloodletting of war certainly give place to the discovery of better methods for curing the ills of nations.
70:2.11 (786.2) The nations of Urantia have already entered upon the gigantic struggle between nationalistic militarism and industrialism, and in many ways this conflict is analogous to the agelong struggle between the herder-hunter and the farmer. But if industrialism is to triumph over militarism, it must avoid the dangers which beset it. The perils of budding industry on Urantia are:
70:2.12(786.3) 1. The strong drift toward materialism, spiritual blindness.
70:2.13(786.4) 2. The worship of wealth-power, value distortion.
70:2.14(786.5) 3. The vices of luxury, cultural immaturity.
70:2.15(786.6) 4. The increasing dangers of indolence, service insensitivity.
70:2.16(786.7) 5. The growth of undesirable racial softness, biologic deterioration.
70:2.17(786.8) 6. The threat of standardized industrial slavery, personality stagnation. Labor is ennobling but drudgery is benumbing.”
One tidbit on Nodite losses to claims of superiority:
92:4.5 (1007.5) “1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.”
So back to the question, and no matter how many red herrings get thrown in, I will stay focused, so play fair
What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering with DNA as a CREATURE?
Sabinatu wrote: …the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.Sab all authority comes from spirit. The act is ours, the consequence God’s. Religion may at times act unwisely but it does act.Sabinatu, It seems few of us mortal creatures are qualified to tinker with DNA. None of us at supermortal levels, for sure. Note this from UB Paper 65:3.6.
Mankind on Urantia must solve its problems of mortal development with the human stocks it has — no more races will evolve from prehuman sources throughout all future time. But this fact does not preclude the possibility of the attainment of vastly higher levels of human development through the intelligent fostering of the evolutionary potentials still resident in the mortal races. That which we, the Life Carriers, do toward fostering and conserving the life strains before the appearance of human will, man must do for himself after such an event and subsequent to our retirement from active participation in evolution. In a general way, man’s evolutionary destiny is in his own hands, and scientific intelligence must sooner or later supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.
It seems like they are expecting us to get involved.
Note the phrase, ” supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.”
Hmmmmmmmmm. Does this mean be careful who you marry? We should be selective for biological reasons as well as love and affinity? Who do we know that has been selective?
But science is going forward to “control” human diseases. With the lessening of war and the increase of disease control, the revealors say overpopulation may become a serious problem “in the near future”. Near future? “Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal?”
68:6:11 From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind.
The average and the normal should be fostered. Julian reminds us:
Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4
How do we “disfellowship” our more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks?
Granted, the study of DNA is revealing many new ways of confronting diseases and it might be somewhat premature to think that there are specific genes which may be present which may identify various ailments and the possible manipulation of genes to help circumvent remedies for help in alleviating some of these diseases. However, I have researched and looked upon this DMA topic for some time and have found that many diseases are associated to chromosomes and that for the most part hundreds of diseases have been linked to the “X” chromosome, almost 99%. When we consider the procreation of offspring, we must look at the chromosomes where as the actual genes found that have been identified to various diseases may be linked in three’s.
I mention three’s because the initial human gene “DNA” mapping project, once completed, found two thirds fewer genes than originally expected. When even if a person was identified to have a gene which has been linked to a specific disease, may have been switched on because of two other genes which may be present in a specific relation to possibly other genes which their combination had turned that one gene on or produced that so called defective gene to begin with?
Therefore, to locate these specific genes which are associated to some specific disease are a form a progress which may need to be continued with more detail and record keeping, where a record bank would be most advantageous in order to map the gene associations. This way it can be backtracked to the chromosomes in order to identify the root of any possible problems but, this does not take into consideration various effects upon genes after creation.
The Urantia Book presents various questions as to selective breeding as a possible remedy to the betterment of the human stock in the future but, it really only presents questions and various possible scenarios which might be considered. I do not see that the UB is promoting any specific methods however, it may be suggesting that more information may be warranted where Gene mapping along with sociobiological investigation, along with behavioral and personality evaluations may also identify specific gene associations, which may be relative to each other, just like identifying diseases.
From my research, there is no guaranty that two parents who are of a so called higher stock will produce the same or higher categories offspring. It would seem that it is the combination of the chromosomes and other various factors of the parents which may be the causal affect to various products. There is no reason to assume that two parents of lower stock will not produce an offspring of extremely high stock and ability. However, there is some validity in what the UB presents where in many years past couples were required to take blood test before getting married, because there was some concern, or lack of knowledge, thinking that these tests could weed out mismatches? For the most part these tests have been stopped but, may be advantageous to restart these tests, in combination which what has been discovered in current DNA research. Blood typing have advanced a great deal since its primary inception and would also have some relations with DNA, especially when taking into consideration the parents blood types may produce irrelative combinations for a fetus’ blood type.
Nevertheless, I do not believe that our knowledge is anywhere to the point where we can assume that we can breed more superior offspring but, there is no reason why we could not attempt to try by recording as much information as possible in our attempts in doing so?
Mark Kurtz wrote: …man’s evolutionary destiny is in his own hands, and scientific intelligence must sooner or later supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.Hi Mark, thanks for bringing that quote to our attention. The ball is definitely in our court on that one.Also clearly stated is the fact even though we do not have super mortals resident to authoritatively make determinations on biological fitness we should be able to disfellowship the antisocial members of society.…The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. [Paper51:4.8, page 585:4]
To guide us is a useful direction the extraordinary inclusion of the affairs of one world about those of another, has been give us. Paper 72 “Government on a Neighboring Planet.”
Of all the Satania worlds which became isolated because of participation in the Lucifer rebellion, this planet has experienced a history most like that of Urantia. The similarity of the two spheres undoubtedly explains why permission to make this extraordinary presentation was granted, for it is most unusual for the system rulers to consent to the narration on one planet of the affairs of another. [Paper 72:0.2, page 808:2]
Anyway, if common sense were in abundant supply, we would take all the valuable lessons from centuries of breeding improvements in animal husbandry and run with that. And race horses are noble and strong without getting married and without the failure consequent on choosing the wrong horse as life partner. Sure, there’s more to it than being a good stud, but good breeding matters and it goes hand-in-hand with nurture in a good family.
In these confusing times of freedom of personal choice and unrestrained pleasure seeking, it is not surprising that, the home—man’s supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization’s only hope of survival, is under serious threat.
…But look you well to the goal of destiny! Pleasures are indeed suicidal if they succeed in destroying property, which has become the institution of self-maintenance; and self-gratifications have indeed cost a fatal price if they bring about the collapse of marriage, the decadence of family life, and the destruction of the home — man’s supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization’s only hope of survival. [Paper 84:8.6, page 943:1]
Marriage and consequent family life is worth any price, any sacrifice, requisite for its possession.
…Without the genuine love of a home, no child can achieve the full development of normal character. Character is something more than mere mind and morals. Of all social relations calculated to develop character, the most effective and ideal is the affectionate and understanding friendship of man and woman in the mutual embrace of intelligent wedlock. Marriage, with its manifold relations, is best designed to draw forth those precious impulses and those higher motives which are indispensable to the development of a strong character. I do not hesitate thus to glorify family life, for your Master has wisely chosen the father-child relationship as the very cornerstone of this new gospel of the kingdom. And such a matchless community of relationship, man and woman in the fond embrace of the highest ideals of time, is so valuable and satisfying an experience that it is worth any price, any sacrifice, requisite for its possession. [Paper 160:2.6, page 1775:7]
As we consider the further ramifications of this topic of eugenics, it’s worth also looking at the wisdom of the papers on “The Evolution of Marriage,” “The Marriage Institution” and “Marriage and Family Life” Papers 82–84.
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