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the word should be expressed on all levels of reality as well? Absoniters – ? Probably no bestowal happening there.
I don’t know if you recall, but TUB explains that Havona is the expression of God’s thought into the Son’s word by the Conjoint Actor. Havona is the absonite level of reality.
0:11.1 When the combined thought of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son, functioning in the God of Action, constituted the creation of the divine and central universe, the Father followed the expression of his thought into the word of his Son and the act of their Conjoint Executive by differentiating his Havona presence from the potentials of infinity.
14:6.15 The Havona worlds and their perfect inhabitants are the first and the eternally final demonstration that the Son is the Word of the Father. Thereby is the consciousness of the Son as an infinite complement of the Father perfectly gratified.
I see where you’re going with this Bonita. Is the Urantia Book the Word of God? The bread of life?
I better not tell. It’s a secret.
I see where you’re going with this Bonita. Is the Urantia Book the Word of God? The bread of life?
Bradly already explained that TUB is Not the word of God, nor the Word of God. My question is why have it then? Why bother? What’s the connection between the dead written word and the living Word? We’re told that revelation can come in the form of written words. By definition revelation of truth is living. How is it that something living can come out of dead words? Are they really dead? Or are they only dead on the page until they become enlivened in the soul?
101:2.6 2. The revelation of truth, whether by direct personal ministry of the Spirit of Truth, by the world bestowal of divine Sons, or through the revelations of the written word.
Or are they only dead on the page until they become enlivened in the soul?
Yes. This is what I’ve been trying to say. The words of the Urantia Book are a means to an end. Not an end in itself, which all of us who are studying it know all too well.
I see where you’re going with this Bonita. Is the Urantia Book the Word of God? The bread of life?
Bradly already explained that TUB is Not the word of God, nor the Word of God. My question is why have it then? Why bother? What’s the connection between the dead written word and the living Word? We’re told that revelation can come in the form of written words. By definition revelation of truth is living. How is it that something living can come out of dead words? Are they really dead? Or are they only dead on the page until they become enlivened in the soul?
101:2.6 2. The revelation of truth, whether by direct personal ministry of the Spirit of Truth, by the world bestowal of divine Sons, or through the revelations of the written word.
All good questions!!
An important factor when considering the UB is that so much of its contents are facts of universe reality. Within this presentation of facts are connections and relationships that require mind to associate, discern, connect, and collate to discover and embrace meaning and value….or truth!
But it is not just the mind of reason and insight – it is the entire mind mechanism and ministries which reveal the meanings and the values of causes and effects I think. Those causes require integration….the God caused, the Son caused, the Spirit caused, and the personal free will choice caused effects. The facts of reality may be unknown to us and still we can grow soul and respond to Spirit and find/experience/express Truth, Beauty, and Goodness….this is personal revelation.
But epochal Revelation brings knowledge to reduce confusion, eliminate errors, and provide the foundation for source/destiny/universe reality perspective that delivers the philosophy of living!! Are there more than one philosophy of living? Only on a dark and immature world I think. On a planet in Light and Life, I would imagine the philosophy of living has little distinction from one mortal to another – that is regarding source/destiny/universe reality perspective. Same for the celestial beings in time and space.
An effective philosophy of living depends upon knowledge of factual reality. Okay….overstated. The most effective philosophy of living depends upon knowledge of factual reality to eliminate error and confusion in mind. An ‘effective’ philosophy can be delivered by personal revelation only I presume….as we have determined on another topic discussing the primitive and young child mind which, in this case, also encompasses all minds on Urantia without the factual evidence provided by Epochal Revelation.
Enno – as to the Bread of Life and the Living Waters….pretty sure those are TRUTH as revealed only by personal relationship to the Spirit. Jesus said something about those who starve or die of thirst while surrounded by bread and water. I’ll look it up! = )
101:2.12 (1107.2) Revelation as an epochal phenomenon is periodic; as a personal human experience it is continuous. Divinity functions in mortal personality as the Adjuster gift of the Father, as the Spirit of Truth of the Son, and as the Holy Spirit of the Universe Spirit, while these three supermortal endowments are unified in human experiential evolution as the ministry of the Supreme.
101:2.13 (1107.3) True religion is an insight into reality, the faith-child of the moral consciousness, and not a mere intellectual assent to any body of dogmatic doctrines. True religion consists in the experience that “the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” Religion consists not in theologic propositions but in spiritual insight and the sublimity of the soul’s trust.
101:2.14 (1107.4) Your deepest nature — the divine Adjuster — creates within you a hunger and thirst for righteousness, a certain craving for divine perfection. Religion is the faith act of the recognition of this inner urge to divine attainment; and thus is brought about that soul trust and assurance of which you become conscious as the way of salvation, the technique of the survival of personality and all those values which you have come to look upon as being true and good.
101:5.5 (1110.8) Both science and religion start out with the assumption of certain generally accepted bases for logical deductions. So, also, must philosophy start its career upon the assumption of the reality of three things:
101:5.6 (1110.9) 1. The material body.
101:5.7 (1110.10) 2. The supermaterial phase of the human being, the soul or even the indwelling spirit.
101:5.8 (1110.11) 3. The human mind, the mechanism for intercommunication and interassociation between spirit and matter, between the material and the spiritual.Jesus said that his words have a transforming influence on the heart if they are permitted to strike down with living roots. At the time, he was referring to his spoken words, but does the same apply to the written word of divine origin?
177:5.2 These multitudes listen to the truth and believe it superficially with their minds, but few of them permit the word of truth to strike down into the heart with living roots. Those who know the gospel only in the mind, and who have not experienced it in the heart, cannot be depended upon for support when real trouble comes.
162:7.2 “If my words abide in you and you are minded to do the will of my Father, then are you truly my disciples. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Can we all agree that words have meaning? Can we all agree that meanings are part of the human quest? Can we all agree that distortion of meaning is a human problem? Then it must be that the quest for true meanings is paramount and that the true meaning of words is a worthwhile endeavor. And I think we should all agree that true meanings are relative; they are not fixed and dead.
171:8.8 And then the apostles sought to know the difference between the meaning of this parable and that of the former parable of the talents, but Jesus would only say, in answer to their many questions: “Ponder well these words in your hearts while each of you finds out their true meaning.”
Ponder . . . a great word.
Some text on the “human quest” for meaning for us to “ponder”:
102:1.6 (1119.5) The indwelling Thought Adjuster unfailingly arouses in man’s soul a true and searching hunger for perfection together with a far-reaching curiosity which can be adequately satisfied only by communion with God, the divine source of that Adjuster. The hungry soul of man refuses to be satisfied with anything less than the personal realization of the living God. Whatever more God may be than a high and perfect moral personality, he cannot, in our hungry and finite concept, be anything less.
14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.
14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.
56:10.5 (646.6) The attainment of cosmologic levels of thought includes:
56:10.6 (646.7) 1. Curiosity. Hunger for harmony and thirst for beauty. Persistent attempts to discover new levels of harmonious cosmic relationships.
56:10.7 (646.8) 2. Aesthetic appreciation. Love of the beautiful and ever-advancing appreciation of the artistic touch of all creative manifestations on all levels of reality.
56:10.8 (646.9) 3. Ethic sensitivity. Through the realization of truth the appreciation of beauty leads to the sense of the eternal fitness of those things which impinge upon the recognition of divine goodness in Deity relations with all beings; and thus even cosmology leads to the pursuit of divine reality values — to God-consciousness.
56:10.9 (646.10) The worlds settled in light and life are so fully concerned with the comprehension of truth, beauty, and goodness because these quality values embrace the revelation of Deity to the realms of time and space. The meanings of eternal truth make a combined appeal to the intellectual and spiritual natures of mortal man. Universal beauty embraces the harmonious relations and rhythms of the cosmic creation; this is more distinctly the intellectual appeal and leads towards unified and synchronous comprehension of the material universe. Divine goodness represents the revelation of infinite values to the finite mind, therein to be perceived and elevated to the very threshold of the spiritual level of human comprehension.
56:10.10 (647.1) Truth is the basis of science and philosophy, presenting the intellectual foundation of religion. Beauty sponsors art, music, and the meaningful rhythms of all human experience. Goodness embraces the sense of ethics, morality, and religion — experiential perfection-hunger.
56:10.11 (647.2) The existence of beauty implies the presence of appreciative creature mind just as certainly as the fact of progressive evolution indicates the dominance of the Supreme Mind. Beauty is the intellectual recognition of the harmonious time-space synthesis of the far-flung diversification of phenomenal reality, all of which stems from pre-existent and eternal oneness.
56:10.12 (647.3) Goodness is the mental recognition of the relative values of the diverse levels of divine perfection. The recognition of goodness implies a mind of moral status, a personal mind with ability to discriminate between good and evil. But the possession of goodness, greatness, is the measure of real divinity attainment.
56:10.13 (647.4) The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth — the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.
The most comforting quote I can offer when it comes to seeking the true meaning of words is this one:
181:2.24 “I have taught you much by word of mouth, and I have lived my life among you. I have done all that can be done to enlighten your minds and liberate your souls, and what you have not been able to get from my teachings and my life, you must now prepare to acquire at the hand of that master of all teachers – actual experience. And in all of this new experience which now awaits you, I will go before you and the Spirit of Truth shall be with you. Fear not; that which you now fail to comprehend, the new teacher, when he has come, will reveal to you throughout the remainder of your life on earth and on through your training in the eternal ages.“
When I consider the novelty of being blessed by the first epochal revelation on earth not in the form of a person, I am honestly ecstatic. It’s clear that the “new teacher” is enough for us to benefit by a revelation “in written word” rather than “in-person word”. Not everyone is aware that they have this teacher living in them, and even those who believe it, might not have any idea how to utilize such a teacher.
Jesus used words for teaching purposes. He spoke them and people listened with their ears then let the words grow roots in their hearts/souls. Today we have the written word for teaching purposes. People read it with their eyes then let the words grow roots in their hearts/souls. Reading words is really no different than listening to words. Either way, meaning must be attached to both types of words. But it’s the meaning discovered in the heart/soul that matters most.
Jesus explained how we are taught the meaning of words by the spirit of the Father. Today we have both the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of the Father (Adjuster) as teachers. How wonderful!
130:8.4 Said Jesus: “Why waste words upon one who cannot perceive the meaning of what you say? The spirit of the Father cannot teach and save one who has no capacity for sonship.” What Jesus meant was that the man was not of normal mind; that he lacked the ability to respond to spirit leading.
The risk of confusing the meaning of words is essentially not significantly different whether they are spoken or written. The advantage of course, is that the written word is more permanent so there is less chance of distortion over time, thus hopefully, a better opportunity for growth in meaning. The words we debate over today will be the same words thousands of years from now, but with any luck, the meaning of those words will have grown in value.
The Father is the source of all meanings and values. His Son, the Word, is the living expression of those meanings and values. His Creator Son is a personal revelation of living meanings and values to his creatures. But written words on a page are essentially dead words until they are given meaning. How we go about assigning meaning to words is myriad, particularly the words of everyday communication. However, the words in the Urantia Book are not everyday words of communication, they are meant to have meanings lasting for generations and generations. We know the Spirit of Truth is responsible for revealing the meaning of truth for each new generation. If epochal revelation in the form of words is a revelation of truth, then I’m convinced that the meaning of the words in TUB must be revealed by the Spirit of Truth for each soul and for each generation.
194:2.1 And now that he has personally left the world, he sends in his place his Spirit of Truth, who is designed to live in man and, for each new generation, to restate the Jesus message so that every new group of mortals to appear upon the face of the earth shall have a new and up-to-date version of the gospel, just such personal enlightenment and group guidance as will prove to be an effective solvent for man’s ever-new and varied spiritual difficulties.
79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life.
5:5.12 The experience of God-consciousness remains the same from generation to generation, but with each advancing epoch in human knowledge the philosophic concept and the theologic definitions of God must change.
The Father is the source of all meanings and values. His Son, the Word, is the living expression of those meanings and values. His Creator Son is a personal revelation of living meanings and values to his creatures. But written words on a page are essentially dead words until they are given meaning. How we go about assigning meaning to words is myriad, particularly the words of everyday communication. However, the words in the Urantia Book are not everyday words of communication, they are meant to have meanings lasting for generations and generations. We know the Spirit of Truth is responsible for revealing the meaning of truth for each new generation. If epochal revelation in the form of words is a revelation of truth, then I’m convinced that the meaning of the words in TUB must be revealed by the Spirit of Truth for each soul and for each generation.
194:2.1 And now that he has personally left the world, he sends in his place his Spirit of Truth, who is designed to live in man and, for each new generation, to restate the Jesus message so that every new group of mortals to appear upon the face of the earth shall have a new and up-to-date version of the gospel, just such personal enlightenment and group guidance as will prove to be an effective solvent for man’s ever-new and varied spiritual difficulties. 79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life. 5:5.12 The experience of God-consciousness remains the same from generation to generation, but with each advancing epoch in human knowledge the philosophic concept and the theologic definitions of God must change.
The word obviously is easily distorted. No fault of the various ministries.
these quotes get me thinking – do you think the authors would be talking like that to beings on an evolutionary world free of rebellion and in possession of divine living teachers?
we are told that we die because we do not fuse with our adjuster. Do you think the mechanism or other issues that make this the norm are analogous to how the Word gets distorted?
what is the distorting mechanism/s? Personality? environment? Mental disease? After effects of rebellion? All of the above? Our physical brain?
What distorts or corrupts the Mother Spirits mind ministry? Or the Spitit of truth?
How do we deceive ourselves to the point where we loose track of these vital ministries and begin to talk to dead people and hear their voices or firmly believe we have had many lives before this one or have our unhealthy fantasies become our living reality?
just thinking.
Fantastic questions Gene!! Like WOW!
Do you think I should try to answer or let other people have a go at it first? I definitely do too much talking here . . . too many words. I’d love to hear what other people think first, because once I get started I can’t shut up.
A
Fantastic questions Gene!! Like WOW! Do you think I should try to answer or let other people have a go at it first? I definitely do too much talking here . . . too many words. I’d love to hear what other people think first, because once I get started I can’t shut up.
dont shut up for me
id like to hear from anyone who takes an interest
Logicals thinkings bro.
1. … do you think the authors would be talking like that to beings on an evolutionary world free of rebellion and in possession of divine living teachers?
Wouldn’t think so. Those normal evolutionary world aren’t plague by those “unfortunates” circumstances. Would like Gene to point out concerning Divine teachers, Urantia is not in a helpless situation au contraire.
2. Do you think the mechanism or other issues that make this the norm are analogous to how the Word gets distorted?
Distortion IMO came from choosing repeatedly, consciously to do errors. The norm related to die instead of fusing on our planet emerge from a primitive, ignorant statute.
- How do we deceive ourselves to the point where we lose track of these vital ministries and begin to … ?
Confusion / confusion / confusion. Without answering those spiritual compulsions when opportunities to make a choice to do good and went the bad direction pressured by external and internal ignorances. TUB reminds us it take courage to stand up against wrongdoing.
Thanks Gene to propose those inquiries regarding ours beliefs.
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