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You can say that again Bradly. “Thank you UB.” What confounds me though, of all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book, poked around in it, even reading it in its entirety, very few of them actually take it for what it is. Take it serious.
Really? How do you know? Have you identified “all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book” and assessed the degree to which each of them takes it seriously? What an odd statement!
I’ve been talking with more than a few people online who know of the UB. All of them tell me the UB isn’t their cup of tea, to put it mildly. About two dozen. That’s just in one place. It’s just one sample. Then I add in all the friends and family members I’ve introduced the Urantia Book to. That’s what I think is odd. That so many dismiss it. But I know why.
Sure, but plenty of folks come across the book on their own and are very private about their serious study of a book that many would assume is a rather strange publication by mainstream society standards. Very few people know that I have read the TUB several times and that I believe wholeheartedly in what it teaches. I am very private about it. I think there are others like me.
In fact, I would venture to say that TUB appeals to folks who are disinclined to showboat or evangelize or march around with a big sign saying “URANTIA BOOK READER”.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if that’s what people feel called to do.)You can say that again Bradly. “Thank you UB.” What confounds me though, of all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book, poked around in it, even reading it in its entirety, very few of them actually take it for what it is. Take it serious.
Really? How do you know? Have you identified “all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book” and assessed the degree to which each of them takes it seriously? What an odd statement!
I’ve been talking with more than a few people online who know of the UB. All of them tell me the UB isn’t their cup of tea, to put it mildly. About two dozen. That’s just in one place. It’s just one sample. Then I add in all the friends and family members I’ve introduced the Urantia Book to. That’s what I think is odd. That so many dismiss it. But I know why.
Sure, but plenty of folks come across the book on their own and are very private about their serious study of a book that many would assume is a rather strange publication by mainstream society standards. Very few people know that I have read the TUB several times and that I believe wholeheartedly in what it teaches. I am very private about it. I think there are others like me. In fact, I would venture to say that TUB appeals to folks who are disinclined to showboat or evangelize or march around with a big sign saying “URANTIA BOOK READER”.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if that’s what people feel called to do.)The hard thing to do is to present Jesus’s teachings about true religion to someone without making references to the Urantia Book.
I don’t think we’re supposed to keep this knowledge to ourselves.
In paper 143, we read that Jesus taught that
143:7.2 (1616.4) True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator; organized religion is man’s attempt to socialize the worship of individual religionists.
Can others see an individual’s “self-conscious relations with the Creator”?
True religion is about service and it’s about loving our neighbor as ourselves. We can serve others, and love them, without ever saying the words ‘The Urantia Book’.
In paper 143, we read that Jesus taught that 143:7.2 (1616.4) True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator; organized religion is man’s attempt to socialize the worship of individual religionists. Can others see an individual’s “self-conscious relations with the Creator”? True religion is about service and it’s about loving our neighbor as ourselves. We can serve others, and love them, without ever saying the words ‘The Urantia Book’.
But how do you make someone aware that there is something like true religion, which is contradistinctive to everything traditionally thought of as “religion”?
It’s new wine, that’s not meant for old wine skins and that’s a chasm that’s hard to bridge. A chasm of spiritual suffering.
In my opinion, it is not our responsibility to show others the ‘true religion’. That’s what everyone has Thought Adjusters for. Of course, if someone is sincerely seeking and requests our guidance, help, ideas, suggestions, or asks what our own spiritual practice may be, then absolutely, sharing is Godlike.
You can say that again Bradly. “Thank you UB.” What confounds me though, of all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book, poked around in it, even reading it in its entirety, very few of them actually take it for what it is. Take it serious.
Keryn: Really? How do you know? Have you identified “all the people who’ve discovered the Urantia Book” and assessed the degree to which each of them takes it seriously? What an odd statement!
Enno: I’ve been talking with more than a few people online who know of the UB. All of them tell me the UB isn’t their cup of tea, to put it mildly. About two dozen. That’s just in one place. It’s just one sample. Then I add in all the friends and family members I’ve introduced the Urantia Book to. That’s what I think is odd. That so many dismiss it. But I know why.
Keryn: Sure, but plenty of folks come across the book on their own and are very private about their serious study of a book that many would assume is a rather strange publication by mainstream society standards. Very few people know that I have read the TUB several times and that I believe wholeheartedly in what it teaches. I am very private about it. I think there are others like me. In fact, I would venture to say that TUB appeals to folks who are disinclined to showboat or evangelize or march around with a big sign saying “URANTIA BOOK READER”.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if that’s what people feel called to do.)Enno: The hard thing to do is to present Jesus’s teachings about true religion to someone without making references to the Urantia Book. I don’t think we’re supposed to keep this knowledge to ourselves.
I would agree with Keryn in multiple ways here. I am sorry for your suffering Enno. It is unfortunate…and offers no help, guidance, or value to those you seem so concerned about. The Master taught it is the fruit of the spirit that we may offer in service to others, not our knowledge. He also taught we are not to correct or remove anything from the minds of others but to add to and do so in ways that show forth our own inner light….or so I recall.
I would suggest it is futile, and potentially damaging, to frequent debunkers and non-believers, especially in the hopes of their enlightenment, ‘facilitated’ by your own beliefs and faith. You may not save any other from their own experience and choices. And over the decades Enno, and still today, I have met many hundreds of devoted readers who embrace the teachings of the UB, many of whom have or have had a greater understanding and knowledge of its contents than I. Lazy people abandon the UB…it’s a tough and long read the first 2-3 times, or at least some parts are and they come early in the text. People gripped by prejudice and preconception abandon the UB too. The world is filled with ‘truth-butterflies’ who cannot stay with any particular study long enough except to pick up a misconception here and another there, seeking confirmations of prejudice…..NOT truth. Get used to it. Not your responsibility.
It might be more helpful to your own experience to share the inner life with others without expectations of agreement. Each mind has its own religious experience and response to the Adjutants, God Fragment, and the Spirit of Truth and this is true no matter what knowledge or beliefs or lack of knowledge and inaccurate beliefs one might have.
This is the glorious good news presented in the UB. God knows the heart…and forgives all ignorance, confusions, immaturities, uncertainties, and error…and provides the Mansion Worlds for our remedial corrections in time, enjoying full mercy and patience.
I grew up being taught it was my responsibility to ‘save’ sinners from eternal damnation and suffering. Such anxiety and falsehood is far more damaging to one’s mind than anything any other might or might not know or believe.
The fact is, and Jesus proved and exemplified it well enough, there is no religionist that you cannot present the Gospel to in their own scriptures, teachings, creeds, and doctrines. It is foolish to require the UB to minister the truth to others…and a little lazy and sanctimonious….IMO….and I don’t mean to be harsh….your beliefs here are common enough….if still counterproductive. The 4th Revelation is obvious, real, and central to Christianity….use it! I convert Christians all the time….and argue against the heresies of the OT, Paul, and the book of Revelation very effectively. I convert them into Jesusonians….not UB readers. Do you know the Jesusonian Gospel as presented in the Bible? Can you differentiate it from Paulinian doctrine? And if a true Christian finds a doctrine which contradicts Jesus Gospel…have you seen the pause of consideration and bewilderment that occurs? I have. It’s a wonderful thing to see a light bulb blink on…even if it causes some confusion in its consideration. Good enough! Simply help someone to think and consider that which they already embrace in some form. What did Jesus teach? Teach that….and forget about the UB as some miracle of knowledge that others must accept to know love and find faith and attach to the branch and bring forth the fruits of the spirit.
Mind poisons deliver suffering. Anxiety and doubts are such poisons. Have you faith? Then have it to yourself. There’s a quote for that.
I hope Enno that you take this in the spirit of care and hope in which it has been written. Find peace Enno. Share that. It’ll be okay.
(1661.5) 148:5.3 “But, my son, you should know that the Father does not purposely afflict his children. Man brings down upon himself unnecessary affliction as a result of his persistent refusal to walk in the better ways of the divine will. Affliction is potential in evil, but much of it has been produced by sin and iniquity. Many unusual events have transpired on this world, and it is not strange that all thinking men should be perplexed by the scenes of suffering and affliction which they witness. But of one thing you may be sure: The Father does not send affliction as an arbitrary punishment for wrongdoing. The imperfections and handicaps of evil are inherent; the penalties of sin are inevitable; the destroying consequences of iniquity are inexorable. Man should not blame God for those afflictions which are the natural result of the life which he chooses to live; neither should man complain of those experiences which are a part of life as it is lived on this world. It is the Father’s will that mortal man should work persistently and consistently toward the betterment of his estate on earth. Intelligent application would enable man to overcome much of his earthly misery.
In my opinion, it is not our responsibility to show others the ‘true religion’. That’s what everyone has Thought Adjusters for. Of course, if someone is sincerely seeking and requests our guidance, help, ideas, suggestions, or asks what our own spiritual practice may be, then absolutely, sharing is Godlike.
I think that true religion is being in touch with spirit. It is personal because it is a personal choice. If we organize it reverts back to a political or institutional religion that don’t have much real value. So how we manifest the spirit in our lives will draw more attention than preaching and it would do well for Urantians to get involved with the political or economic systems that require an upgrade. Integrity, honesty, loyalty, dedication, love, joy in serving etc – all much in short supply out there and setting an example is really needed
Bradly, I’m not suffering. Why does it seem that you always look for fault?
Personal fault?
People I converse with regarding spiritual matters tell me THEY suffer spiritually. That they’re unable to have faith in God because everything they know about what traditional religions teach, is dismally hard to believe and have faith in.
They are crying out for relief from the situation.
And they plainly ask me for help. But, it seems it’s all a bridge too far right now. But I won’t let the suggestion that it isn’t my responsibility to be of assistance stop me from doing so.
I’m merely confiding with you, the followers of Jesus, what is happening with my endeavors to follow Jesus too.
Bradly, I’m not suffering. Why does it seem that you always look for fault? Personal fault? People I converse with regarding spiritual matters tell me THEY suffer spiritually. That they’re unable to have faith in God because everything they know about what traditional religions teach, is dismally hard to believe and have faith in. They are crying out for relief from the situation. And they plainly ask me for help. But, it seems it’s all a bridge too far right now. But I won’t let the suggestion that it isn’t my responsibility to be of assistance stop me from doing so. I’m merely confiding with you, the followers of Jesus, what is happening with my endeavors to follow Jesus too.
I see I have failed in my hope and quest. I did not mean to find fault…but to recommend strategies I’ve found effective. You say its hard to present truth without the UB…I disagree.
You also seem to fault the entire student body in your recent quotes based on your very limited experience with a “few” so-called readers, about “two dozen” which led you to a rather encompassing declaration about the entirety of the readership. So I guess it’s alright for you to find fault in others….but not me?
A curious rebuke. And I never said it’s not your or mine or all’s “responsibility to be of assistance”….who are you assisting? And I thought you were bemoaning your lack of traction and success? And perhaps even seeking the ‘assistance’ and guidance of others based on their experience?
My mistake. The UB says many starve and thirst while sitting at the banquet table. I wonder how we might make them eat and drink when the spirit within still waits for the response to their endless whisper?
I wonder how we might make them eat and drink when the spirit within still waits for the response to their endless whisper?They will need to respond on their own and take a drink and eat what’s in front of them. If they won’t, which is where our responsibility ends, maybe that’s what’ll make them unsalvable.Would it be too much to ask the two of you to stop the incessant bickering at each other and get back to the topic?
Here’s the best quote which clearly explains the reason for anyone’s failure to deliver the Jesus message:
P.1726 – §2 “Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousness, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired. The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness. The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life .”
Hahahaha….great advice Bonita!! Don’t know how we got out into this patch of weeds. Reminds me of the wheat and tares….the determination of who is which is not ours to determine in any regard. Speaking of suffering…and sympathy, the teaching about false sympathy comes to mind. We are to be cautious and judicious in our sympathies and not be overly concerned with that suffering is self inflicted and self selected:
159:3.11 (1766.7) Teach all believers to avoid leaning upon the insecure props of false sympathy. You cannot develop strong characters out of the indulgence of self-pity; honestly endeavor to avoid the deceptive influence of mere fellowship in misery. Extend sympathy to the brave and courageous while you withhold overmuch pity from those cowardly souls who only halfheartedly stand up before the trials of living. Offer not consolation to those who lie down before their troubles without a struggle. Sympathize not with your fellows merely that they may sympathize with you in return.
159:3.12 (1766.8) When my children once become self-conscious of the assurance of the divine presence, such a faith will expand the mind, ennoble the soul, reinforce the personality, augment the happiness, deepen the spirit perception, and enhance the power to love and be loved.
159:3.13 (1767.1) Teach all believers that those who enter the kingdom are not thereby rendered immune to the accidents of time or to the ordinary catastrophes of nature. Believing the gospel will not prevent getting into trouble, but it will insure that you shall be unafraid when trouble does overtake you. If you dare to believe in me and wholeheartedly proceed to follow after me, you shall most certainly by so doing enter upon the sure pathway to trouble. I do not promise to deliver you from the waters of adversity, but I do promise to go with you through all of them.
We’re not to offer consolation to pusillanimous souls, but I think it’s okay to offer them a way to SEE themselves and how they contribute to their own misery.
We’re not supposed to fix things for people, but help them fix things themselves. And there are so many ways to do that, the best of course, is just being a beacon of light, as best as able. Helping others should come from mercy, not pity. Don’t forget that quote which informs us that there are several steps between pity and true mercy. Sometimes I think folks confuse pity with mercy.
Most of the trouble our current society is in has been caused by overzealous “help” given out of pity, which promotes victimhood mentality. Today, any effort to correct victimhood mentality is met with fierce opposition. It has become deeply etched into the collective psyche. I have no idea how to go about reversing this damage, but sooner or later, it has to happen. Sooner or later people have to learn how to reach deep down inside themselves for help in alleviating their suffering. Right now it’s the opposite for so many, and unfortunately, our government rewards it because it buys votes. It’s a terrible and vicious downward cycle.
Jesus said always respect the personality of man. . .159:3.2 Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man’s mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.Remember what he said:“Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”Jesus said this to Simon:When Simon Zelotes and Jesus were alone, Simon asked the Master: “Why is it that I could not persuade him? Why did he so resist me and so readily lend an ear to you?” Jesus answered: “Simon, Simon, how many times have I instructed you to refrain from all efforts to take something out of the hearts of those who seek salvation? How often have I told you to labor only to put something into these hungry souls? Lead men into the kingdom, and the great and living truths of the kingdom will presently drive out all serious error. When you have presented to mortal man the good news that God is his Father, you can the easier persuade him that he is in reality a son of God. And having done that, you have brought the light of salvation to the one who sits in darkness. Simon, when the Son of Man came first to you, did he come denouncing Moses and the prophets and proclaiming a new and better way of life? No. I came not to take away that which you had from your forefathers but to show you the perfected vision of that which your fathers saw only in part. Go then, Simon, teaching and preaching the kingdom, and when you have a man safely and securely within the kingdom, then is the time, when such a one shall come to you with inquiries, to impart instruction having to do with the progressive advancement of the soul within the divine kingdom.”
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