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Thanks Mara. Yes a “day” is a different frequency on every world, no matter which System. So the Jerusem “period” (which is not determined by any orbit or star relationship) must be the standard.
So…3 Jerusem periods allows for over 400 billion straight line miles of seraphic transport. Perhaps further if there is a shorter distance between two points than a straight line? Are there space curvature or time warps or distance portals or some other forms of physics shortcuts for such distance traversal?
This 1998 NASA page, local star counts states there are 2,127 stars within 65 light years (20 parsecs) from Earth. So if Satania contains about two thousand stars, then the distance from here to Jerusem might be 10 to 20 light years?
One light-year is about 6 trillion miles (9 trillion km). That is a 6 with 12 zeros behind it! I assume that in time-space universes the speed of light does not vary among universes/systems. I imagine the variety of sizes of peopled planets within our system, each one designating their time units according to their understanding of how their orb moves through space (rotational axis and orbital rotation around a sun/s) over time.
But on our world using our time designations, a guardian seraphim can travel up to three times the distance light travels (3 X 6 trillion miles) in one year of our time, thus reducing down the travel time it takes to go somewhere to one third of the time it takes light to get to the same place. That’s pretty amazing!
But on our world a day is twenty-four hours. The question about what is a “day” and what is a “period” might not be helpful. Others can reason it out. But the UB designates a light year in terms familiar to earthlings. How far is Earth from Jerusem? Ten to twenty light years away maybe. Does this mean it will take seraphic transports one third of that time (3.3 light years up to 6.7 light years) to get from here to there?
Bradly wrote: So…3 Jerusem periods allows for over 400 billion straight line miles of seraphic transport.
I don’t see how you arrived at 400 billion miles of seraphic transport.. Can you explain? Thanks.
Correction: Speed of light times 9 local days.
186,000 miles per second x 60 sec. x 60 min. x 24 hrs. x 9 Urantia days = 144,633,600,000 miles in 3 Satania periods.
33:6.9 (372.4) The day in Satania, as reckoned on Jerusem, is a little less (1 hour, 4 minutes, 15 seconds) than three days of Urantia time. These times are generally known as Salvington or universe time, and Satania or system time. Standard time is universe time.
186,000 miles per second x 60 sec. x 60 min. x 24 hrs. x 9 Urantia days = 144,633,600,000 miles in 3 Satania periods.
Oh okay. I got a similar number of miles (144,851,328,000 miles = 259,200 earth seconds in 3 earth days x 558,840 maximum miles per second velocity of seraphic transport), but both yours and mine are well under the distance light travels in one year (6,000,000,000,000 miles). If Nigel’s info is helpful in estimating the distance from earth to Jerusem, then our numbers are far off the mark. In other words it takes a very, very long time for transport seraphim to go to Mansonia.
But what’s the hurry? I want to go to Mansonia number one, because I do not want to miss out on a single bit of training!
Here is a supplemental reference:
23:3.2 The universe is well supplied with spirits who utilize gravity for purposes of transit; they can go anywhere any time — instanter — but they are not persons. Certain other gravity traversers are personal beings, such as Gravity Messengers and Transcendental Recorders, but they are not available to the super- and the local universe administrators. The worlds teem with angels and men and other highly personal beings, but they are handicapped by time and space: The limit of velocity for most nonenseraphimed beings is 186,280 miles of your world per second of your time; the midway creatures and certain others can, often do, attain double velocity — 372,560 miles per second — while the seraphim and others can traverse space at triple velocity, about 558,840 miles per second. There are, however, no transit or messenger personalities who function between the instantaneous velocities of the gravity traversers and the comparatively slow speeds of the seraphim, except the Solitary Messengers.
I am not convinced that the architectural worlds of Satania are 50,000 (more or less) light-years away. Can you or someone else help us with this? I have other questions too.
From Paper 41:3.1:
“There are upward of two thousand brilliant suns pouring forth light and energy in Satania, …” (458.1, 41:3.1)
This 1998 NASA page, local star counts states there are 2,127 stars within 65 light years (20 parsecs) from Earth. So if Satania contains about two thousand stars, then the distance from here to Jerusem might be 10 to 20 light years? Nigel
Hi Jean, Mara, Nigel, all,
Another reader (Chris Halvorson) speculated that Satania headquarters is about 15 light years from here. He based this on the fact that it was seven years after the outbreak of rebellion that the Melchizedek receivers showed up on Urantia. It took two Urantia years for things to settle on Jerusem, and five years travel time at 3X light speed. This compares favorably with Nigel’s supposition/question.
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Richard E Warren
Salut à tous
D’accord avec vous pour cette supposition, mais il doit y avoir quelque chose qui nous échappe, car je reste convaincu que 10 ou 15 années lumière (même divisé par 3x) il reste 3 ou 4 années lumières et cela me semble trop long!!
Je cherche encore
A+
Jean
Hello all,
This is an interesting subject that reaches me. Here are some thoughts:
The UB mentions that Seraphim can move at 3rd velocity…fine. That’s a bit like saying a typical human can run at, let’s say, 30 miles an hour for the example. But if I want to go from point A to point B and if I use an animal or some mechanical device, I can reach my destination in much lesser time.
There are likely many and many tasks that Seraphim accomplish in their traveling that do not require instant reception. As I understand it, time is not a worrisome factor for these beings. They do things in a manner required.
So what if, for practical purposes, transferring a soul from Urantia or a neighboring planet to the Mansion worlds is not a secondary issue and requires using the energy focalisation of the physical controllers that can, at will, set up a power line for quick transport? The revelators in the quote below do make a distinction between transport and communication.
29:4.14 (325.7) The physical controllers are chiefly occupied in the adjustment of basic energies undiscovered on Urantia. These unknown energies are very essential to the interplanetary system of transport and to certain techniques of communication. When we lay lines of energy for the purpose of conveying sound equivalents or of extending vision, these undiscovered forms of energy are utilized by the living physical controllers and their associates. These same energies are also, on occasion, used by the midway creatures in their routine work.
29:4.19 (326.1) Of all the Master Physical Controllers assigned to the inhabited worlds, the mechanical controllers are by far the most powerful. Possessing the living endowment of antigravity in excess of all other beings, each controller has a gravity resistance equaled only by enormous spheres revolving at tremendous velocity. Ten of these controllers are now stationed on Urantia, and one of their most important planetary activities is to facilitate the departure of seraphic transports. In so functioning, all ten of the mechanical controllers act in unison while a battery of one thousand energy transmitters provides the initial momentum for the seraphic departure.
29:4.20 (326.2) The mechanical controllers are competent to directionize the flow of energy and to facilitate its concentration into the specialized currents or circuits. These mighty beings have much to do with the segregation, directionization, and intensification of the physical energies and with the equalization of the pressures of the interplanetary circuits. They are expert in the manipulation of twenty-one of the thirty physical energies of space, constituting the power charge of a superuniverse. They are also able to accomplish much towards the management and control of six of the nine more subtle forms of physical energy. By placing these controllers in proper technical relationship to each other and to certain of the power centers, the associate power directors are enabled to effect unbelievable changes in power adjustment and energy control.
Thanks and very interesting indeed. There is usually a definitive relationship between time and space (distance). But we should remember that the abrogation of time is a reality function presented multiple times in Part IV related to certain episodes from the wedding wine to the empty tomb.
As I pointed out such a possibility above:
“… if there is a shorter distance between two points than a straight line? Are there space curvature or time warps or distance portals or some other forms of physics shortcuts for such distance traversal?”
Perhaps the quickening of time somehow disregards distance or speed (or both)?
137:4.13 (1530.5) But this was in no sense a miracle. No law of nature was modified, abrogated, or even transcended. Nothing happened but the abrogation of time in association with the celestial assembly of the chemical elements requisite for the elaboration of the wine. At Cana on this occasion the agents of the Creator made wine just as they do by the ordinary natural processes except that they did it independently of time and with the intervention of superhuman agencies in the matter of the space assembly of the necessary chemical ingredients.
Bradly, perhaps something similar to planetary great circle? Pilots use great circle extensively
That’s what I was thinking. Lots of sci-fi time portals too.
But what is time? And what is distance without time?
189:2.8 (2024.1) The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.
But what is time? And what is distance without time?
Does this help?
115:3.18 From a circumscribed view there are, indeed, many ends, many terminations of activities, but from a larger viewpoint on a higher universe level, there are no endings, merely transitions from one phase of development to another. The major chronicity of the master universe is concerned with the several universe ages, the Havona, the superuniverse, and the outer universe ages. But even these basic divisions of sequence relationships cannot be more than relative landmarks on the unending highway of eternity.
The topic is interesting, but I think the discussion of distances in space and speed of angels is mostly irrelevant in this context. First, the resurrection on the “third day” is no way exclusive to people in Urantia, but the same applies on all planets, on all locations. Second, they never say the three day -delay is due to travel or distance in space. Third, the “third day” -statement seem to apply also when there is no transition between places, like when Jesus arose from the tomb.
I cannot say how the resurrection on the “third day” happens, but the explanation must be somewhere else, than in traveling. E.g. are the Guardian Angels on Urantia, or do they “work remotely”. If they are on Urantia, so where do they stay if they look after a thousand people simultaneously?
The statement “third day” or “third period” is found dozens of times in The Urantia Book. Amazingly many things happen just on the third day, when somebody goes somewhere. Below I picked some of these.
* * *
20:6.6 (229.5) When the bestowal Sons, Creator or Magisterial, enter the portals of death, they reappear on the third day.
35:2.8 (386.6) The Melchizedeks – – and then, following the correctional rest, reinstatement to service ensues on the third day.
62:7.1 (709.8) – – On the third day after the elopement of the twins – – there arrived the Nebadon archangel of initial planetary circuit establishment.
75:6.3 (844.5) The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem.
93:10.1 (1024.3) – – And on the third day after his disappearance from Salem he [Melchizedek] appeared among his eleven fellows of the Urantia assignment
119:1.3 (1309.4) Not until the third day after Michael’s departure was any message of possible significance received. On this day a communication was registered on Salvington from the Melchizedek sphere, the headquarters of that order in Nebadon, which simply recorded this extraordinary and never-before-heard-of transaction: “At noon today there appeared on the receiving field of this world a strange Melchizedek Son – – [Ref. first bestowal of Michael]
119:2.7 (1312.1) And then did this transient ruler of a rebellious system take leave of the planet of his short administrative sojourn, while on the third day thereafter Michael appeared on Salvington and resumed the direction of the universe of Nebadon. – – [Ref. second bestowal of Michael]
119:3.4 (1312.5) – – the transitory or emergency Planetary Prince took formal leave, disappearing at noon one day. On the third day thereafter, Michael appeared in his accustomed place on Salvington – – [Ref. third bestowal of Michael]
119:4.2 (1313.5) On the third day after this bestowal disappearance we observed, in the universe broadcasts to Uversa – – [Ref. fourth bestowal of Michael]
. . . I cannot say how the resurrection on the “third day” happens, but the explanation must be somewhere else. . . .
Welcome Tapio. (I forgot to welcome Nigel, Bradly, Richard, Mark and Alain. This is an interesting topic.)
Could it be that the number three as used by the revelators to refer to the third day or the third period, is meant to suggest the reality of our origins – the three original persons of Deity, three existential Absolutes, three Sources and Centers, three Paradise Deities functioning as the Trinity whose children we are (10:6.16)?
104:1.13 Not since the times of Jesus has the factual identity of the Paradise Trinity been known on Urantia (except by a few individuals to whom it was especially revealed) until its presentation in these revelatory disclosures.E.g. are the Guardian Angels on Urantia, or do they “work remotely”. If they are on Urantia, so where do they stay if they look after a thousand people simultaneously?
Here they tell us all the survivors since the days of Adam appeared in the resurrection halls before the guardian seraphim ever left. They say *ordinarily* the guardians would have been present in the resurrection halls the moment of their awakening.
3. The Dispensational Resurrection
(2024.3) 189:3.1 A little after half past four o’clock this Sunday morning, Gabriel summoned the archangels to his side and made ready to inaugurate the general resurrection of the termination of the Adamic dispensation on Urantia. When the vast host of the seraphim and the cherubim concerned in this great event had been marshaled in proper formation, the morontia Michael appeared before Gabriel, saying: “As my Father has life in himself, so has he given it to the Son to have life in himself. Although I have not yet fully resumed the exercise of universe jurisdiction, this self-imposed limitation does not in any manner restrict the bestowal of life upon my sleeping sons; let the roll call of the planetary resurrection begin.”
(2024.4) 189:3.2 The circuit of the archangels then operated for the first time from Urantia. Gabriel and the archangel hosts moved to the place of the spiritual polarity of the planet; and when Gabriel gave the signal, there flashed to the first of the system mansion worlds the voice of Gabriel, saying: “By the mandate of Michael, let the dead of a Urantia dispensation rise!” Then all the survivors of the human races of Urantia who had fallen asleep since the days of Adam, and who had not already gone on to judgment, appeared in the resurrection halls of mansonia in readiness for morontia investiture. And in an instant of time the seraphim and their associates made ready to depart for the mansion worlds. Ordinarily these seraphic guardians, onetime assigned to the group custody of these surviving mortals, would have been present at the moment of their awaking in the resurrection halls of mansonia, but they were on this world itself at this time because of the necessity of Gabriel’s presence here in connection with the morontia resurrection of Jesus.
They would have been present, but they were not present at the moment of awaking, because they were needed here. Seraphic records are made:
(1243.6) 113:2.9 When a seraphic pair accept guardian assignment, they serve for the remainder of the life of that human being. The complement of being (one of the two angels) becomes the recorder of the undertaking. These complemental seraphim are the recording angels of the mortals of the evolutionary worlds. The records are kept by the pair of cherubim (a cherubim and a sanobim) who are always associated with the seraphic guardians, but these records are always sponsored by one of the seraphim.
And others are record keepers too:
112:4.2 [Part III]In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster’s duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster’s version of the deceased human’s survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.
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