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Posts
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Rick and all,
The comments received at the Post regarding the article seems to prove for me the values found in TUB. The meanness is rampant on newspaper and many other chat forums and this fact convinces me people have not developed a valuing philosophy that would transcend personal selfishness, psychological imbalance or neuroses. I do agree there is need to redefine philosophy so that there is satisfying adventure in truth seeking and for recognizing goodness. Its all been said here on this topic.
Your posts were courageous given the hostility found there. Very admirable of you; keep up the faith for whats right.
The UB authors surely see the depth of our problems and they included discussion to help us to think about what is good about philosophy for divine idealist living.
Rick and all, The comments received at the Post regarding the article seems to prove for me the values found in TUB. The meanness is rampant on newspaper and many other chat forums and this fact convinces me people have not developed a valuing philosophy that would transcend personal selfishness, psychological imbalance or neuroses. I do agree there is need to redefine philosophy so that there is satisfying adventure in truth seeking and for recognizing goodness. Its all been said here on this topic. Your posts were courageous given the hostility found there. Very admirable of you; keep up the faith for whats right. The UB authors surely see the depth of our problems and they included discussion to help us to think about what is good about philosophy for divine idealist living.
Thanks so much for the comments and encouragement Mark,
It’s a whole different thing mixing it up with disbelief out in the secular world, isn’t it?! But it is an exhilarating challenge. I liked what you wrote too. Maybe she read one or both of our replies.
Yes, good point, the authors gave us a great deal to think about philosophically, idealistically, spiritually speaking. Even SUPERPHILOSOPHY, which Melchizedek mentioned twice:
…Thus it may be seen that religious longings and spiritual urges are not of such a nature as would merely lead men to want to believe in God, but rather are they of such nature and power that men are profoundly impressed with the conviction that they ought to believe in God. The sense of evolutionary duty and the obligations consequent upon the illumination of revelation make such a profound impression upon man’s moral nature that he finally reaches that position of mind and that attitude of soul where he concludes that he has no right not to believe in God. The higher and superphilosophic wisdom of such enlightened and disciplined individuals ultimately instructs them that to doubt God or distrust his goodness would be to prove untrue to the realest and deepest thing within the human mind and soul — the divine Adjuster…. 101:1:7
Religious speculation is inevitable but always detrimental; speculation invariably falsifies its object. Speculation tends to translate religion into something material or humanistic, and thus, while directly interfering with the clarity of logical thought, it indirectly causes religion to appear as a function of the temporal world, the very world with which it should everlastingly stand in contrast. Therefore will religion always be characterized by paradoxes, the paradoxes resulting from the absence of the experiential connection between the material and the spiritual levels of the universe — morontia mota, the superphilosophic sensitivity for truth discernment and unity perception…. 102:3:2
How might we introduce Super Philosophy to skeptical world? Don a cape? Mota on?!
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Richard E Warren
I like to think that this is the more important part of quote 101:1.7: ” . . . make such a profound impression upon man’s moral nature that he finally reaches that position of mind and that attitude of soul where he concludes that he has no right not to believe in God.”
Getting a person to that position of mind and attitude of soul is the goal. You can’t tell people what to think or how to think, you can only show them, and to show them you have to have arrived there yourself and be willing to share yourself with them, socialize your personality.
How many people even realize that their soul has an attitude? Heck, how many even know they have a soul? How many people realize that they can reposition their mind? How many people accept the fact that they have access to the mind that was in Jesus?
I think that first you have to show them that your own soul is empowered by the four faith attitudes and that your own mind is repositioned to accept the mind that was in Jesus. People imitate what they like. It will eventually rub off onto others. but only if it’s gracious and fragrant, which it can’t help but be.
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I like to think that this is the more important part of quote 101:1.7: ” . . . make such a profound impression upon man’s moral nature that he finally reaches that position of mind and that attitude of soul where he concludes that he has no right not to believe in God.” Getting a person to that position of mind and attitude of soul is the goal. You can’t tell people what to think or how to think, you can only show them, and to show them you have to have arrived there yourself and be willing to share yourself with them, socialize your personality. How many people even realize that their soul has an attitude? Heck, how many even know they have a soul? How many people realize that they can reposition their mind? How many people accept the fact that they have access to the mind that was in Jesus? I think that first you have to show them that your own soul is empowered by the four faith attitudes and that your own mind is repositioned to accept the mind that was in Jesus. People imitate what they like. It will eventually rub off onto others. but only if it’s gracious and fragrant, which it can’t help but be.
Sounds right, Bonita,
The soul’s attitude is well worth considering here, especially since the soul’s substance is divine values; truth, beauty, goodness, the cornerstones of cosmic philosophy and the maximum expression of perfected spiritual values.
At one time, on the old Forum, we discussed how much influence the soul actually has, if any. I was surprised to find several more quotes suggesting the soul has influence, even will!
67:7:4 [#3]…Sin is fraught with fatal consequences to personality survival only when it is the attitude of the whole being, when it stands for the choosing of the mind and the willing of the soul..100:1:6 [#3]…But these temporal conditions do not inhibit inner spiritual progress by a soul dedicated to the doing of the will of the Father in heaven. There are present in all normal mortals certain innate drives toward growth and self-realization which function if they are not specifically inhibited. The certain technique of fostering this constitutive endowment of the potential of spiritual growth is to maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values.
140:5:16 [#4]…Moses was a superb leader, but he was also a man of meekness. Being sensitive and responsive to human need creates genuine and lasting happiness, while such kindly attitudes safeguard the soul from the destructive influences of anger, hate, and suspicion..144:2:2 [#4]“Prayer is entirely a personal and spontaneous expression of the attitude of the soul toward the spirit; prayer should be the communion of sonship and the expression of fellowship..155:5:14 [#4]…”Go now apart by yourselves, each man alone with the Father, and there find the unemotional answer to my question, and having found such a true and sincere attitude of soul, speak that answer freely and boldly to my Father and your Father, whose infinite life of love is the very spirit of the religion we proclaim.”179:3:2 [#4]…Since Peter so revered and honored Jesus in his heart, it was not strange that his soul resented the thought of Jesus’ kneeling there before him in the attitude of a menial servant and proposing to wash his feet as would a slave..196:0:10 [#4]…To him prayer was a sincere expression of spiritual attitude, a declaration of soul loyalty, a recital of personal devotion, an expression of thanksgiving, an avoidance of emotional tension, a prevention of conflict, an exaltation of intellection, an ennoblement of desire, a vindication of moral decision, an enrichment of thought, an invigoration of higher inclinations, a consecration of impulse, a clarification of viewpoint, a declaration of faith, a transcendental surrender of will, a sublime assertion of confidence, a revelation of courage, the proclamation of discovery, a confession of supreme devotion, the validation of consecration, a technique for the adjustment of difficulties, and the mighty mobilization of the combined soul powers to withstand all human tendencies toward selfishness, evil, and sin. He lived just such a life of prayerful consecration to the doing of his Father’s will and ended his life triumphantly with just such a prayer. The secret of his unparalleled religious life was this consciousness of the presence of God; and he attained it by intelligent prayer and sincere worship — unbroken communion with God — and not by leadings, voices, visions, or extraordinary religious practices..Richard E Warren
Righto Rick! You know my favorite topic is the soul, which is why I wrote that book on the Holy Spirit, the supermind of the soul. I could talk for days and days about the soul. I spent years pulling every quote with the word “soul” in it, thinking, organizing, correlating, asking questions and praying on the meaning of it all. I have a whole notebook full of ideas to share on the subject.
Yes, the soul has powers. It has a life of its own. It grows in and of itself, which makes it really hard to kill it off, yet some folks manage to do it somehow. The soul can think; it is minded by the Holy Spirit. The soul has its own attitudes. But souls are not born perfect, they must grow towards perfection by constantly striving for it.
And in terms of TBG, those values are multidimensional, meaning they exist on multiple levels of reality and must be rediscovered and reinterpreted on every level of soul growth (the function of the Spirit of Truth). TBG are not static. Values are relative in that they only have the meaning they gain through the soul’s experience with them. Opening up the mind to get to the soul is my life’s work. But I rarely make much progress being understood by other UB’ers on that topic. It’s distressing that so few have interest in their own souls. Anyway, I’ll shut up now.
…Anyway, I’ll shut up now.
No, please, say on!! Especially as soul relates to living philosophy.
Richard E Warren
No, please, say on!! Especially as soul relates to living philosophy.
Have you ever taken the time to ponder just what they mean when they say: living truth, living God, living faith, living spiritual connection, living love, new and living way, living spiritual experience, living presence, living philosophy?
The key word is “living”, obviously. And who gives life? The Creative Spirit, our Mother Spirit, the Holy Spirit of our souls. The body lives but the soul is living. All that is truly living happens at the soul level.
This is why I had a cow when Nigel called the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Fact. Facts are dead things. But that’s another beast altogether. I don’t want to go down that road again. I’m too old to have cows.
Well I can honestly say that I feel that I have come to the realization that I have no right not to believe in God.
but how I got there was a process, can’t say one person or clever or profound set of words made it happen.
If fact if asked I probably could not give but only memorable highlights of a continuing process
revealed religion has a way of creeping into us with or without the Urantia book. Some of us are religious but won’t admit it or recognize it.
Gene wrote: If fact if asked I probably could not give but only memorable highlights of a continuing processThat’s the way it works Gene. Growth is unconscious. What you are describing is a living process. Life doesn’t happen in little factual fragments that can be analyzed, one experiences life as a whole, and the “highlights” are the little glimpses of reality that come when we are properly attuned to reality. All we can hope for is an occasional glimpse at the true, beautiful and good nature of God and his universe (reality). And it is paramount that we not allow ourselves to become blinded by them and go off half-cocked and crazy. Some do.
103:0.1 The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.
The memories of those glimpses are priceless. These are the memories with staying power, the ones shared by the Adjuster and carried through eternity as part of your soul’s dowry, the good, true and beautiful friendship between God and man.
160:4.12 Train your memory to hold in sacred trust the strength-giving and worth-while episodes of life, which you can recall at will for your pleasure and edification. Thus build up for yourself and in yourself reserve galleries of beauty, goodness, and artistic grandeur. But the noblest of all memories are the treasured recollections of the great moments of a superb friendship. And all of these memory treasures radiate their most precious and exalting influences under the releasing touch of spiritual worship.
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…build up for yourself and in yourself reserve galleries of beauty, goodness, and artistic grandeur…. 160:4.12
Pure Philosophic Poetry! As was your post.
Been thinking about evolved philosophy, it has a long history on Urantia, Rene Descartes was one of its luminaries. Compare this about a man of 1600 AD and the Urantia Book:
…Descartes also saw very clearly that all truths were linked with one another, so that finding a fundamental truth and proceeding with logic would open the way to all science. This basic truth, Descartes found quite soon: his famous “I think therefore I am“.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes
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Some modern wisdom: Gene wrote: “…revealed religion has a way of creeping into us with or without the Urantia book. Some of us are religious but won’t admit it or recognize it.”
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Richard E Warren
Rene needs a haircut
taking a small slice from paper 100 – probably not too far out of context and rings a bell with his “I think therefore I am” insight:
“growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism – conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of ones’ own value-habits, personal ideals.”
isnt self criticism akin to doubting ones-self? A mental exercise of healthy growth?
Rene needs a haircut…taking a small slice from paper 100 – probably not too far out of context and rings a bell with his “I think therefore I am” insight: “growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism – conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of ones’ own value-habits, personal ideals.” isnt self criticism akin to doubting ones-self? A mental exercise of healthy growth?
Agree Gene, surely honest self assessment has a place in spiritual growth. But Rene’s pithy saying, “I think therefore I am”, never rang quite true to me. ‘I know God, therefore I am’, might be closer to the truth of it, eh?
In spite of errors in his thinking, Descartes was a famous teacher of philosophy. He has been given the moniker: “father of Western philosophy”. Philosophy has come a long way, and now it has been given a great boost from the UB authors. A UB/philosophy student on another forum gave permission to repost this bit of insight on educating young ones, she wrote:
“Would that more states in the U.S. require the study of philosophy in grammar school and high school in order to train students to THINK and to use their minds more effectively, with discipline, in solving the problems of daily life, not to mention broad social, political, economic, and environmental issues! Part of philosophy training involves learning how to communicate skillfully – an ability which goes a long way in successfully getting along with other people and getting work accomplished well.”
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Richard E Warren
But Rene’s pithy saying, “I think therefore I am”, never rang quite true to me.
It rings true to me. I tried to point this out before. Both my life and my mind are gifts from the same person, the Creative Spirit. You can’t have human life without mind. In fact, it is the mind that produces the body.
42:12.2 Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity.
I hear ya Bonita,
But I was thinking (!) that a more accurate axiom to drive Western philosophy for centuries might have been: God is, therefore I am. Or how about this?: I AM is, therefore am I.
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Richard E Warren
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