What Is Goodness? Why Is Only God Good? Is It Really "All Good"?

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  • #19978
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Thanks Bonita. Righteousness, virtue, and goodness have to be inextricably interwoven. They are cousins, if not siblings. And you are right of course, they mean nothing without the personal factor. Righteousness and virtue are topics just as deep as Goodness. Books could be written!  ( ;-) ) Hope you will feel led to expound more here on these aspects of Goodness (and/or Greatness).

    Another aspect of goodness, one mentioned in the opening post, and one that humans should have recognized, examined, and instilled long ago, is its intimate association with Greatness. Greatness, like goodness, is seldom talked about or taught, even though we Anglophones use the word great to evoke anything from God to bitter disappointment (‘Oh great, another delay.’).

    The Greeks may not have understood that greatness is the result and the perfecting expression of goodness because they lacked a great God to exemplify, personify, and unify goodness and greatness. Had they known it is God the Father who is the First Person of Goodness, they might have built an enduring religion rather than a center-less philosophy with only Beauty for a rudder. Goodness and greatness are virtually meaningless without a good and great person at the center of all things and beings. God’s goodness and love actually do make the personal universe go round, with the physical, mindal, and spiritual providing the ground of being, the arena of choice, and the divine adventure to become great.

    Sustained goodness, wisely applied goodness, eventually creates greatness–even in we lowly humans! There have been many great humans in our long and painful history. Pain and trying circumstances are the fires that temper the raw iron of goodness and recast it into the strong and lasting steel of divine greatness. No great human ever achieved it by ease and aloofness.

    Greatness is not God’s alone. God desires to share it. It is available to anyone who commits to its rigors. Jesus, Ghandi, many others, male and female, have become great during their brief lives on benighted Urantia. To comprehend greatness born of goodness, shouldn’t we first realize what goodness is from the divine point of view? Then we may grow into greatness, one experience at a time like the great ones before us. According to our new revelation, we all will be and do perfect goodness, even greatness, by the time we reach Finaliteer status on Paradise. So, for the average ascender, greatness can’t be had in this short life, not to perfection. Only aspired to and achieved in a measure, and always relative to God’s inherent Greatness.

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #19979
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I’ve always thought of greatness as smallness, smallness of the self.  The less of the self in anything the more great it is.  I think this world is all mixed up and backward in regards to that.  Most people think of greatness is bigness: big money, big ego, big mouth, big hair (oops, that slipped out).  It’s really about a consciousness of smallness, true humility.  I honestly don’t think you can really serve without it. Wasn’t the whole foot-washing thing about humility and smallness?

    If humility is part of greatness, it must be part of goodness as well.  I know God is good, but I rarely think of him as humble.  Yet, if you think about what he’s done in regards to sending pieces of himself to live in us and submit to our free will, holy cow! that’s really humble.  I could give someone a piece of me, like a kidney or something, but not an actual piece of my identity, then let them have their way with it, which is what God does. We don’t have identity without him as part of us. That’s really good and great stuff!

    Another thing I was thinking of lately is the relativity of goodness on the human level. Like living truth and beauty, living goodness is relative.  The word living has to do with experience, as opposed to true or divine goodness, which has to do with perfection on Paradisal levels. Even though we strive for true goodness, we can’t really own it, not just because it belongs to God, but because we are perfecting creatures, far from Paradisal perfection.   I think we come closer and closer to true goodness as we transit through the psychic circles, as our personalities become more spiritually real, more perfected, or less imperfect.

    So what about the levels of the golden rule when it comes to goodness and greatness?  I think there’s a little roadmap there revealing increasing levels of living goodness.  The lowest level is purely self-centered, the highest level is actually living God’s will, a service of fatherly love, learned from the same Father who gave us himself in a most humble, good and great way.  I’m beginning to think that these levels are also indicative of circle mastery.  Probably first circlers are humble enough, the least self-centered, the most perfected, thus capable of serving others at the 6th level of the golden rule.  And of course, they would be the greatest, the most good, among us in this relative frame of living experience.

    Well Rick, I’m just musing here.  I haven’t polished these thoughts well enough to write anything worthwhile.  I thought I’d jot them down while they’re still in my head, since the old brain is getting a little slippery these days.  Can’t seem to hold onto thoughts like I used to.  Whoosh!  They’re gone in an instant, tucked away somewhere safe where I can never seem to find them, like my car keys.

     

    #19980
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Thought I’d add some additional text from Paper 28 to support such wonderful thinking on the relationship of goodness and greatness…..

    28:6.20 (317.1) 6 and 7. The Secret of Greatness and the Soul of Goodness. The ascending pilgrims having awakened to the import of time, the way is prepared for the realization of the solemnity of trust and for the appreciation of the sanctity of service. While these are the moral elements of greatness, there are also secrets of greatness. When the spiritual tests of greatness are applied, the moral elements are not disregarded, but the quality of unselfishness revealed in disinterested labor for the welfare of one’s earthly fellows, particularly worthy beings in need and in distress, that is the real measure of planetary greatness. And the manifestation of greatness on a world like Urantia is the exhibition of self-control. The great man is not he who “takes a city” or “overthrows a nation,” but rather “he who subdues his own tongue.”

    28:6.21 (317.2) Greatness is synonymous with divinity. God is supremely great and good. Greatness and goodness simply cannot be divorced. They are forever made one in God. This truth is literally and strikingly illustrated by the reflective interdependence of the Secret of Greatness and the Soul of Goodness, for neither can function without the other. In reflecting other qualities of divinity, the superuniverse seconaphim can and do act alone, but the reflective estimates of greatness and of goodness appear to be inseparable. Hence, on any world, in any universe, must these reflectors of greatness and of goodness work together, always showing a dual and mutually dependent report of every being upon whom they focalize. Greatness cannot be estimated without knowing the content of goodness, while goodness cannot be portrayed without exhibiting its inherent and divine greatness.

    Me here:  As to our smallness despite our own self importance, it is interesting to consider that we may only grow the spiritual side of our dual nature by reducing our own self importance, the one leads to the other……I find the study of the Apostles so illustrative and illuminating of the human condition so swayed by the material side of our nature even while seeking out and growing our spiritual nature.   The foot washing has always been one of the most inspiring and enlightening of all stories.

    158:6.3 (1758.4) “No sooner does your faith grasp the identity of the Son of Man than your selfish desire for worldly preferment creeps back upon you, and you fall to discussing among yourselves as to who should be greatest in the kingdom of heaven, a kingdom which, as you persist in conceiving it, does not exist, nor ever shall. Have not I told you that he who would be greatest in the kingdom of my Father’s spiritual brotherhood must become little in his own eyes and thus become the server of his brethren? Spiritual greatness consists in an understanding love that is Godlike and not in an enjoyment of the exercise of material power for the exaltation of self. In what you attempted, in which you so completely failed, your purpose was not pure. Your motive was not divine. Your ideal was not spiritual. Your ambition was not altruistic. Your procedure was not based on love, and your goal of attainment was not the will of the Father in heaven.

    48:4.15 (549.2) When we are tempted to magnify our self-importance, if we stop to contemplate the infinity of the greatness and grandeur of our Makers, our own self-glorification becomes sublimely ridiculous, even verging on the humorous. One of the functions of humor is to help all of us take ourselves less seriously. Humor is the divine antidote for exaltation of ego.

     

     

    :good:

    #19985
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Here are two more quotes to ponder.  There’s a law of spirit dominance (25:1.4), and a great law of conservation and dominance of goodness.  Goodness always wins in the long run.  Hooray!  All we need is faith.

    48:6.7 These seraphic evangels are dedicated to the proclamation of the gospel of eternal progression, the triumph of perfection attainment. On the mansion worlds they proclaim the great law of the conservation and dominance of goodness: No act of good is ever wholly lost; it may be long thwarted but never wholly annulled, and it is eternally potent in proportion to the divinity of its motivation.

    140:8.8 Have faith — confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.

    Bradly wrote:  . . . .it is interesting to consider that we may only grow the spiritual side of our dual nature by reducing our own self importance, the one leads to the other . . .

    It is interesting, but we can’t reduce our own self-importance by will-power alone.  Our self-importance diminishes proportionate to the importance we give to “other-than-self,” God (through prayer and worship).  The more we identify with God, the less we identify with the self.  The more we identify with God, the more service we render in the form of fruits of the spirit.  It’s a true, beautiful and good thing.

    #19986
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: “…As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment….” (1458:3) 132:2.6
      What exactly creates greater capacity “for goodness experience”?
    Not spiritual self-examination.  Not conscientious self-examination.  Not religious introspection. “But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.” (140:8:27)
    .
    140:8:26  Jesus knew men were different, and he so taught his apostles. He constantly exhorted them to refrain from trying to mold the disciples and believers according to some set pattern. He sought to allow each soul to develop in its own way, a perfecting and separate individual before God. In answer to one of Peter’s many questions, the Master said: “I want to set men free so that they can start out afresh as little children upon the new and better life.” Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.
    .
    170:3:9  The righteousness of any act must be measured by the motive; the highest forms of good are therefore unconscious. Jesus was never concerned with morals or ethics as such. He was wholly concerned with that inward and spiritual fellowship with God the Father which so certainly and directly manifests itself as outward and loving service for man. He taught that the religion of the kingdom is a genuine personal experience which no man can contain within himself; that the consciousness of being a member of the family of believers leads inevitably to the practice of the precepts of the family conduct, the service of one’s brothers and sisters in the effort to enhance and enlarge the brotherhood.
    .
    No man can contain within him/herself the personal experience of knowing God as a Father and your neighbor as a brother or sister.  You cannot stifle the urge to reach out to others with the joy and certainty you have in the goodness of God, the truth and the beauty of reality.  But this means you have to have interactions with your neighbors and others.  And therefore do you put yourself out there in real world places where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, where you enact to urge to reach out.  Always will the Spirit be telling you, “This is the way.” Over time you get better at doing – enacting – The Way the Spirit shows you.  And I am pretty sure that both you and I know immediately when we have not done right in our interpersonal enactions.   (Of course there is one other area not yet mentioned which is all the crappy mind-talk going on inside your head which you have not uttered, but it is still there running in repetitive loops by force of habit.)  Anyhow.  Perfection-hunger is the lure.  Conduct within the family is the platform for learning.
    .
    #19987
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    (Of course there is one other area not yet mentioned which is all the crappy mind-talk going on inside your head which you have not uttered, but it is still there running in repetitive loops by force of habit.)

    I have found others who mention that they have to deal with either “voices” (conscious thought), or as noted above, “crappy mind-talk going on inside your head”, and at one time I also suffered or found this to be disturbing at times, but no longer need to deal with this, having learned how to still my mind.  It was not that difficult to do but I have found that it is most beneficial especially when attempting to fall asleep.  This does not mean that I cannot communicate with self but has made me more cognoscente of mindal communications through the superconscious.   Although I have been able to do this for some time, I am surprised that so many suffer with this still.  Doesn’t meditation help with stilling the mind?

    #20003
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    I’ve always thought of greatness as smallness, smallness of the self. The less of the self in anything the more great it is. I think this world is all mixed up and backward in regards to that. Most people think of greatness is bigness: big money, big ego, big mouth, big hair (oops, that slipped out). It’s really about a consciousness of smallness, true humility. I honestly don’t think you can really serve without it. Wasn’t the whole foot-washing thing about humility and smallness? If humility is part of greatness, it must be part of goodness as well. I know God is good, but I rarely think of him as humble. Yet, if you think about what he’s done in regards to sending pieces of himself to live in us and submit to our free will, holy cow! that’s really humble. I could give someone a piece of me, like a kidney or something, but not an actual piece of my identity, then let them have their way with it, which is what God does. We don’t have identity without him as part of us. That’s really good and great stuff! Another thing I was thinking of lately is the relativity of goodness on the human level. Like living truth and beauty, living goodness is relative. The word living has to do with experience, as opposed to true or divine goodness, which has to do with perfection on Paradisal levels. Even though we strive for true goodness, we can’t really own it, not just because it belongs to God, but because we are perfecting creatures, far from Paradisal perfection. I think we come closer and closer to true goodness as we transit through the psychic circles, as our personalities become more spiritually real, more perfected, or less imperfect. So what about the levels of the golden rule when it comes to goodness and greatness? I think there’s a little roadmap there revealing increasing levels of living goodness. The lowest level is purely self-centered, the highest level is actually living God’s will, a service of fatherly love, learned from the same Father who gave us himself in a most humble, good and great way. I’m beginning to think that these levels are also indicative of circle mastery. Probably first circlers are humble enough, the least self-centered, the most perfected, thus capable of serving others at the 6th level of the golden rule. And of course, they would be the greatest, the most good, among us in this relative frame of living experience. Well Rick, I’m just musing here. I haven’t polished these thoughts well enough to write anything worthwhile. I thought I’d jot them down while they’re still in my head, since the old brain is getting a little slippery these days. Can’t seem to hold onto thoughts like I used to. Whoosh! They’re gone in an instant, tucked away somewhere safe where I can never seem to find them, like my car keys.

    Hmmm…seems like that’s some mighty fine thinking on goodness and greatness, Bonita. Gotta love your paradoxical idea of small being great. It rings so true.

    I especially liked this:
     

    …I know God is good, but I rarely think of him as humble. Yet, if you think about what he’s done in regards to sending pieces of himself to live in us and submit to our free will, holy cow! that’s really humble. I could give someone a piece of me, like a kidney or something, but not an actual piece of my identity, then let them have their way with it, which is what God does. We don’t have identity without him as part of us. That’s really good and great stuff!

    And I like the idea of a roadmap to greatness.  A Golden Road??

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20004
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Thought I’d add some additional text from Paper 28 to support such wonderful thinking on the relationship of goodness and greatness….. 28:6.20 (317.1) 6 and 7. The Secret of Greatness and the Soul of Goodness. The ascending pilgrims having awakened to the import of time, the way is prepared for the realization of the solemnity of trust and for the appreciation of the sanctity of service. While these are the moral elements of greatness, there are also secrets of greatness. When the spiritual tests of greatness are applied, the moral elements are not disregarded, but the quality of unselfishness revealed in disinterested labor for the welfare of one’s earthly fellows, particularly worthy beings in need and in distress, that is the real measure of planetary greatness. And the manifestation of greatness on a world like Urantia is the exhibition of self-control. The great man is not he who “takes a city” or “overthrows a nation,” but rather “he who subdues his own tongue.” 28:6.21 (317.2) Greatness is synonymous with divinity. God is supremely great and good. Greatness and goodness simply cannot be divorced. They are forever made one in God. This truth is literally and strikingly illustrated by the reflective interdependence of the Secret of Greatness and the Soul of Goodness, for neither can function without the other. In reflecting other qualities of divinity, the superuniverse seconaphim can and do act alone, but the reflective estimates of greatness and of goodness appear to be inseparable. Hence, on any world, in any universe, must these reflectors of greatness and of goodness work together, always showing a dual and mutually dependent report of every being upon whom they focalize. Greatness cannot be estimated without knowing the content of goodness, while goodness cannot be portrayed without exhibiting its inherent and divine greatness. Me here: As to our smallness despite our own self importance, it is interesting to consider that we may only grow the spiritual side of our dual nature by reducing our own self importance, the one leads to the other……I find the study of the Apostles so illustrative and illuminating of the human condition so swayed by the material side of our nature even while seeking out and growing our spiritual nature. The foot washing has always been one of the most inspiring and enlightening of all stories. 158:6.3 (1758.4) “No sooner does your faith grasp the identity of the Son of Man than your selfish desire for worldly preferment creeps back upon you, and you fall to discussing among yourselves as to who should be greatest in the kingdom of heaven, a kingdom which, as you persist in conceiving it, does not exist, nor ever shall. Have not I told you that he who would be greatest in the kingdom of my Father’s spiritual brotherhood must become little in his own eyes and thus become the server of his brethren? Spiritual greatness consists in an understanding love that is Godlike and not in an enjoyment of the exercise of material power for the exaltation of self. In what you attempted, in which you so completely failed, your purpose was not pure. Your motive was not divine. Your ideal was not spiritual. Your ambition was not altruistic. Your procedure was not based on love, and your goal of attainment was not the will of the Father in heaven. 48:4.15 (549.2) When we are tempted to magnify our self-importance, if we stop to contemplate the infinity of the greatness and grandeur of our Makers, our own self-glorification becomes sublimely ridiculous, even verging on the humorous. One of the functions of humor is to help all of us take ourselves less seriously. Humor is the divine antidote for exaltation of ego. :good:

    Thanks Bradly, for the perfect quotes for the topic. This phrase always sticks with me, maybe because it was italicized, and maybe because of the deft use of the word divorced:

    Greatness and goodness simply cannot be divorced. 28:6.21 (317.2)

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20005
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Here are two more quotes to ponder. There’s a law of spirit dominance (25:1.4), and a great law of conservation and dominance of goodness. Goodness always wins in the long run. Hooray! All we need is faith.

    48:6.7 These seraphic evangels are dedicated to the proclamation of the gospel of eternal progression, the triumph of perfection attainment. On the mansion worlds they proclaim the great law of the conservation and dominance of goodness: No act of good is ever wholly lost; it may be long thwarted but never wholly annulled, and it is eternally potent in proportion to the divinity of its motivation. 140:8.8 Have faith — confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.

    Bradly wrote: . . . .it is interesting to consider that we may only grow the spiritual side of our dual nature by reducing our own self importance, the one leads to the other . . .

    It is interesting, but we can’t reduce our own self-importance by will-power alone. Our self-importance diminishes proportionate to the importance we give to “other-than-self,” God (through prayer and worship). The more we identify with God, the less we identify with the self. The more we identify with God, the more service we render in the form of fruits of the spirit. It’s a true, beautiful and good thing.

    Amen, Sister!

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20006
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: “…As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment….” (1458:3) 132:2.6
    What exactly creates greater capacity “for goodness experience”?
    Not spiritual self-examination. Not conscientious self-examination. Not religious introspection. “But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.” (140:8:27)
    .
    140:8:26 Jesus knew men were different, and he so taught his apostles. He constantly exhorted them to refrain from trying to mold the disciples and believers according to some set pattern. He sought to allow each soul to develop in its own way, a perfecting and separate individual before God. In answer to one of Peter’s many questions, the Master said: “I want to set men free so that they can start out afresh as little children upon the new and better life.” Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.
    .
    170:3:9 The righteousness of any act must be measured by the motive; the highest forms of good are therefore unconscious. Jesus was never concerned with morals or ethics as such. He was wholly concerned with that inward and spiritual fellowship with God the Father which so certainly and directly manifests itself as outward and loving service for man. He taught that the religion of the kingdom is a genuine personal experience which no man can contain within himself; that the consciousness of being a member of the family of believers leads inevitably to the practice of the precepts of the family conduct, the service of one’s brothers and sisters in the effort to enhance and enlarge the brotherhood.
    .
    No man can contain within him/herself the personal experience of knowing God as a Father and your neighbor as a brother or sister. You cannot stifle the urge to reach out to others with the joy and certainty you have in the goodness of God, the truth and the beauty of reality. But this means you have to have interactions with your neighbors and others. And therefore do you put yourself out there in real world places where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, where you enact to urge to reach out. Always will the Spirit be telling you, “This is the way.” Over time you get better at doing – enacting – The Way the Spirit shows you. And I am pretty sure that both you and I know immediately when we have not done right in our interpersonal enactions. (Of course there is one other area not yet mentioned which is all the crappy mind-talk going on inside your head which you have not uttered, but it is still there running in repetitive loops by force of habit.) Anyhow. Perfection-hunger is the lure. Conduct within the family is the platform for learning.
    .

    Beautifully expressed Mara, and I am “pretty sure” too.

    You mention family. Goodness/greatness runs deeper is some families, seems like. Surely that’s a function of familial love. But Adjuster and angelic influence can’t be ruled out either.

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20007
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote:  You mention family.
    Yes, in terms of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.
    142:7:4  He next explained that the “kingdom idea” was not the best way to illustrate man’s relation to God; that he employed such figures of speech because the Jewish people were expecting the kingdom, and because John had preached in terms of the coming kingdom. Jesus said: “The people of another age will better understand the gospel of the kingdom when it is presented in terms expressive of the family relationship — when man understands religion as the teaching of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man, sonship with God.” Then the Master discoursed at some length on the earthly family as an illustration of the heavenly family, restating the two fundamental laws of living: the first commandment of love for the father, the head of the family, and the second commandment of mutual love among the children, to love your brother as yourself. And then he explained that such a quality of brotherly affection would invariably manifest itself in unselfish and loving social service.
    .
    He was a living demonstration of self-forgetfulness in all his days, as noted below.
    196:0:9  The Master’s entire life was consistently conditioned by this living faith, this sublime religious experience. This spiritual attitude wholly dominated his thinking and feeling, his believing and praying, his teaching and preaching. This personal faith of a son in the certainty and security of the guidance and protection of the heavenly Father imparted to his unique life a profound endowment of spiritual reality. And yet, despite this very deep consciousness of close relationship with divinity, this Galilean, God’s Galilean, when addressed as Good Teacher, instantly replied, “Why do you call me good?” When we stand confronted by such splendid self-forgetfulness, we begin to understand how the Universal Father found it possible so fully to manifest himself to him and reveal himself through him to the mortals of the realms.
    Surly self-forgetfulness will increase capacity for goodness, even as good overcomes evil.
    #20008
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: You mention family.
    Yes, in terms of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.
    142:7:4 He next explained that the “kingdom idea” was not the best way to illustrate man’s relation to God; that he employed such figures of speech because the Jewish people were expecting the kingdom, and because John had preached in terms of the coming kingdom. Jesus said: “The people of another age will better understand the gospel of the kingdom when it is presented in terms expressive of the family relationship — when man understands religion as the teaching of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man, sonship with God.” Then the Master discoursed at some length on the earthly family as an illustration of the heavenly family, restating the two fundamental laws of living: the first commandment of love for the father, the head of the family, and the second commandment of mutual love among the children, to love your brother as yourself. And then he explained that such a quality of brotherly affection would invariably manifest itself in unselfish and loving social service.
    .
    He was a living demonstration of self-forgetfulness in all his days, as noted below.
    196:0:9 The Master’s entire life was consistently conditioned by this living faith, this sublime religious experience. This spiritual attitude wholly dominated his thinking and feeling, his believing and praying, his teaching and preaching. This personal faith of a son in the certainty and security of the guidance and protection of the heavenly Father imparted to his unique life a profound endowment of spiritual reality. And yet, despite this very deep consciousness of close relationship with divinity, this Galilean, God’s Galilean, when addressed as Good Teacher, instantly replied, “Why do you call me good?” When we stand confronted by such splendid self-forgetfulness, we begin to understand how the Universal Father found it possible so fully to manifest himself to him and reveal himself through him to the mortals of the realms.
    Surely self-forgetfulness will increase capacity for goodness, even as good overcomes evil.

    Yeah, even greatness. But it’s amazing how many ways self remembrance seeps in!

     

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20009
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    You can’t really forget yourself by trying to forget yourself.  The act of trying to forget yourself makes you think more about yourself . . . cat chasing it’s own tail.  Can’t be done.  No capacity will be increased by trying to forget yourself. All that does is run a circular rut in your psyche.

    You forget yourself by filling your thoughts with other-than-self.  Right? Prayer and worship works for that.  Prayer reminds you that your self isn’t that important (smallness) and worship is awareness of other-than-self, also known as the presence of God.

    143:7.7 Prayer is self-reminding—sublime thinking; worship is self-forgetting—superthinking. Worship is effortless attention, true and ideal soul rest, a form of restful spiritual exertion.

     

    #20025
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    I found these interesting remarks on prayer and worship.
    5:3:3  Worship is for its own sake; prayer embodies a self– or creature-interest element; that is the great difference between worship and prayer. There is absolutely no self-request or other element of personal interest in true worship; we simply worship God for what we comprehend him to be. Worship asks nothing and expects nothing for the worshiper. We do not worship the Father because of anything we may derive from such veneration; we render such devotion and engage in such worship as a natural and spontaneous reaction to the recognition of the Father’s matchless personality and because of his lovable nature and adorable attributes.
    Infinite goodness – only God is good – is an attribute of God, a loving Father, and our loving Father, God, our heavenly parent, pours forth His love even to His erring children.  God is love.  Only a person can love and be loved in return.
    1:7:3  The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father.
    .
    “Jesus trusted God much as the child trusts a parent.” “Jesus‘ wholehearted faith in the fundamental goodness of the universe very much resembled the child’s trust in the security of its earthly surroundings. He depended on the heavenly Father as a child leans upon its earthly parent, and his fervent faith never for one moment doubted the certainty of the heavenly Father’s overcare. He was not disturbed seriously by fears, doubts, and skepticism. Unbelief did not inhibit the free and original expression of his life. He combined the stalwart and intelligent courage of a full-grown man with the sincere and trusting optimism of a believing child. His faith grew to such heights of trust that it was devoid of fear.” (196:0:11)
    2:2:5  God’s primal perfection consists not in an assumed righteousness but rather in the inherent perfection of the goodness of his divine nature. He is final, complete, and perfect. There is no thing lacking in the beauty and perfection of his righteous character. And the whole scheme of living existences on the worlds of space is centered in the divine purpose of elevating all will creatures to the high destiny of the experience of sharing the Father’s Paradise perfection. God is neither self-centered nor self-contained; he never ceases to bestow himself upon all self-conscious creatures of the vast universe of universes.
    #20026
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    …You forget yourself by filling your thoughts with other-than-self. Right?

    Right. Good thoughts. But it takes much time and focused effort to retrain the mind to do this 24/7/366.  That said, we might take heart in the self-evident fact that a mind not easily changed means that once retrained, it should be easier to maintain and expand capacity for gooder thinking :good:

    All this got me thinking about how goodness reflects on family. Seems like God-centered family is civilization’s ever growing repository of goodness (not unlike the Supreme Being, huh?!). I like what the authors say about the value of family; almost to suggest family is comparable to the cell of the human body. And when cells are good, so is health.

    There is a deep vein of goodness on one side of my family, and considerable badness on the other. I was morally and spiritually confused for a long while, until discovering revelation in midlife.  What a relief! And what an opportunity to try to make my family better. Families that live and teach goodness are such a pleasure to be around, they even attract kids from the lesser goodness-endowed families.

    …As are the families of the race or nation, so is its society. If the families are good, the society is likewise good. The great cultural stability of the Jewish and of the Chinese peoples lies in the strength of their family groups.(939.4) 84:7.1

    .

    Richard E Warren

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