-
Posts
-
Dear Forum Members,
A reader friend (who will join the Forum soon) wants to hear whether others find a contradiction between these two quotes:
110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. …
107:0.7 On the evolutionary worlds, will creatures traverse three general developmental stages of being: From the arrival of the Adjuster to comparative full growth, about twenty years of age on Urantia, the Monitors are sometimes designated Thought Changers. From this time to the attainment of the age of discretion, about forty years, the Mystery Monitors are called Thought Adjusters. From the attainment of discretion to deliverance from the flesh, they are often referred to as Thought Controllers. These three phases of mortal life have no connection with the three stages of Adjuster progress in mind duplication and soul evolution.What do you think?Richard E Warren
My 2 cents:
My first thought is another question:
when designation is made as to either changer, adjuster or controller, who is doing the designating and why? Why throw unfamiliar terms like that at us?Until I read TUB the terms were meaningless but I was not immune to their urges toward altruism.
Next question is can we sense the difference between changer and adjuster? Or adjuster and controller?
next is more observation: I have never felt required to think anything but the more I try to respond to the urges the monitor throws at me the more compelled I tend to be with responding cooperatively.
next is the designation controller: if we were to be 100% compliant with the monitors urges, what term could be used to describe this relationship if controller makes you feel uncomfortable? I mean that it’s really the wholehearted effort to find God and do his will. I’m ok with controller, it’s not only effort but surrender too.
make any sense?
your friends question brings to mind a Jesus quote where he says something about loosing your life if you try to save it but finding life if you loose it – or something like that, can’t quote exactly
Hi Rick,
I personally don’t see it as a contradiction and think a change in the underlined emphasis illustrates the resolution for this, going from:
“110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. …”
…to this:
“110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. …”
The TA isn’t trying to control thinking — go against free will — but through life experience and inner spiritual growth, as a person volunteers to choose the divine will, then the divine will is becoming more in control. The “control” of the “Thought Controller” is only from the personal choices of the recipient.
tas
Rick Warren wrote: 110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. …Perhaps this reference can enlighten us.110:1:2 [#3]I wish it were possible for me to help evolving mortals to achieve a better understanding and attain a fuller appreciation of the unselfish and superb work of the Adjusters living within them, who are so devoutly faithful to the task of fostering man’s spiritual welfare. These Monitors are efficient ministers to the higher phases of men’s minds; they are wise and experienced manipulators of the spiritual potential of the human intellect. These heavenly helpers are dedicated to the stupendous task of guiding you safely inward and upward to the celestial haven of happiness. These tireless toilers are consecrated to the future personification of the triumph of divine truth in your life everlasting. They are the watchful workers who pilot the God-conscious human mind away from the shoals of evil while expertly guiding the evolving soul of man toward the divine harbors of perfection on far-distant and eternal shores. The Adjusters are loving leaders, your safe and sure guides through the dark and uncertain mazes of your short earthly career; they are the patient teachers who so constantly urge their subjects forward in the paths of progressive perfection. They are the careful custodians of the sublime values of creature character. I wish you could love them more, co-operate with them more fully, and cherish them more affectionately.In youth we grapple with all manner of human emotions and emotional reactions to things, situations and people, and, to what we are experiencing in the inner life – mentally and spiritually. People who think outside the box want to know more and are not satisfied with the status quo. But still, human reactions abound. I think the 3 general developmental stages of being human pertain to ascending toward mature living to, as Rodan put it, the “vantage points of high living, [where] man is able to transcend the material irritations of the lower levels of thinking — worry, jealousy, envy, revenge, and the pride of immature personality.
160:3:5 [#4]This new gospel of the kingdom renders a great service to the art of living in that it supplies a new and richer incentive for higher living. It presents a new and exalted goal of destiny, a supreme life purpose. And these new concepts of the eternal and divine goal of existence are in themselves transcendent stimuli, calling forth the reaction of the very best that is resident in man’s higher nature. On every mountaintop of intellectual thought are to be found relaxation for the mind, strength for the soul, and communion for the spirit. From such vantage points of high living, man is able to transcend the material irritations of the lower levels of thinking — worry, jealousy, envy, revenge, and the pride of immature personality. These high-climbing souls deliver themselves from a multitude of the crosscurrent conflicts of the trifles of living, thus becoming free to attain consciousness of the higher currents of spirit concept and celestial communication. But the life purpose must be jealously guarded from the temptation to seek for easy and transient attainment; likewise must it be so fostered as to become immune to the disastrous threats of fanaticism.Time is required to achieve the deliverance from “conflicts of the trifles of living.” I recall reading the meaning of life is its adaptability.130:4:7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability — even to the heights of God-consciousness.
In order to understand the opening posts question would not the first thing to determine, in order to acquire an answer, as to the purpose or mission of the Thought Adjuster and/or Monitor, and/or Controller, based on each individual’s soul and desire?
(66.4) 5:3.8 The worship experience consists in the sublime attempt of the betrothed Adjuster to communicate to the divine Father the inexpressible longings and the unutterable aspirations of the human soul — the conjoint creation of the God-seeking mortal mind and the God-revealing immortal Adjuster. Worship is, therefore, the act of the material mind’s assenting to the attempt of its spiritualizing self, under the guidance of the associated spirit, to communicate with God as a faith son of the Universal Father. The mortal mind consents to worship; the immortal soul craves and initiates worship; the divine Adjuster presence conducts such worship in behalf of the mortal mind and the evolving immortal soul. True worship, in the last analysis, becomes an experience realized on four cosmic levels: the intellectual, the morontial, the spiritual, and the personal — the consciousness of mind, soul, and spirit, and their unification in personality.
(66.3) 5:3.7 Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster. The mind of material limitations can never become highly conscious of the real significance of true worship. Man’s realization of the reality of the worship experience is chiefly determined by the developmental status of his evolving immortal soul. The spiritual growth of the soul takes place wholly independently of the intellectual self-consciousness.
Assuming that “worship” can be associated to a “communion” or being able to learn a common language, where the Through Adjuster is the translator, who can adjust a persons understanding using their entire being as a receptor? How does one know whether what they do is or is not Our Fathers Will? Like a child, learns that fire, is hot and will burn, and cause pain, so to does Our Father share these type of experiences through the Through Adjuster but, what or who, controls one’s own curiosity to know and thereby learn? In remembering that what one experiences, so does the Thought Adjuster experience. This conjoint experience may be governed by either the Self or the Thought Adjuster, where both share the responsibility for what action is experienced.
MidiChlorian wrote: . . . but, what or who, controls one’s own curiosity to know and thereby learn?Curiosity is part of our divine endowment. (14:5:11) The fourth adjutant mind-spirit, the spirit of knowledge, is the “curiosity-mother” of adventure and discovery.36:5:9 4. The spirit of knowledge — the curiosity-mother of adventure and discovery, the scientific spirit; the guide and faithful associate of the spirits of courage and counsel; the urge to direct the endowments of courage into useful and progressive paths of growth.The work of the Adjuster is to spiritize the person.107:6:2 The Adjuster is man’s eternity possibility; man is the Adjuster’s personality possibility. Your individual Adjusters work to spiritize you in the hope of eternalizing your temporal identity. The Adjusters are saturated with the beautiful and self-bestowing love of the Father of spirits. They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men. They long for the divinity attainment of your mortal minds that their loneliness may end, that they may be delivered with you from the limitations of material investiture and the habiliments of time.Here is what takes place.101:6:7 Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth — universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds.And this takes time. If for some reason an individual life is cut short, the Adjuster takes his experience of working to spiritize the individual with him, and becomes a part of the Adjuster’s experiential treasure-trove forever and forever. If the individual chooses survival, the Adjuster takes the duplicate record of that individual to the resurrection halls to continue with the individual in his evolving morontia career. (108:6:5)
If for some reason an individual life is cut short, the Adjuster takes his experience of working to spiritize the individual with him, and becomes a part of the Adjuster’s experiential treasure-trove forever and forever.
Everything has a time and season, but Our Father’s work, has a reason, which is personalized from every soul.
As you mention above if an “individuals life is cut short,” what the adjuster does is explained in the UB based on the reason for why an “individuals life” was “cut short,” but what occurs if an “individuals life” when it is not “cut short”? Do, they proceed to the mansion worlds starting off as they left off, when their life’s period was over, or fulfilled? If a person died of old age here, do they proceed to the mansion world, as they left off in this world? I don’t know about you, but if and when or if I die of old age, I’m not sure I’d like to appear on the mansion world as an old fart, with any physical problems that I may have had here?
Does the Urantia Book, differentiate between these two scenarios?
MidiChlorian wrote: If a person died of old age here, do they proceed to the mansion world, as they left off in this world?
MidiChlorian wrote: If a person died of old age here, do they proceed to the mansion world, as they left off in this world?
Excluding the material body, yes. See: (47:3.1) (112:4.3) (30:4.15) (49:6.7) , among many other references. We get a highly individualized morontia form made-to-order in the hall of resurrection on Mansonia when we get there. (42:12.11)
Mara, as per the links, to UB text, that you provided above, they would confirm the release of the “material body”, but that withstanding, it is the personal realization, conscious memories, of the preexistence, as related to the ability of that person to remember, relative to their mental ability, assuming long-lived age, or ageing, where I believe that the UB indicates this as “natural death”, although that would be assuming that everyone is to live life to a natural old age, where if this person were to retain that form of conscious realization in as noted, “(47:3.1) On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. [. . .]”, where it does not mention “natural death”, only “overtaken by death.” In that “overtaken” might refer to something different that “natural” – death.
Then there is your notation pointing to (49:6.7):
(49:6.7) Thus are the sleeping survivors of a planetary age repersonalized in the dispensational roll calls. But with regard to the nonsalvable personalities of a realm, no immortal spirit is present to function with the group guardians of destiny, and this constitutes cessation of creature existence. While some of your records have pictured these events as taking place on the planets of mortal death, they all really occur on the mansion worlds.
Really would not apply but, (49:6.9) would have more barring on the question.
(49:6.9)Throughout the earlier ages of an evolutionary world, few mortals go to judgment on the third day. But as the ages pass, more and more the personal guardians of destiny are assigned to the advancing mortals, and thus increasing numbers of these evolving creatures are repersonalized on the first mansion world on the third day after natural death. On such occasions the return of the Adjuster signalizes the awakening of the human soul, and this is the repersonalization of the dead just as literally as when the en masse roll is called at the end of a dispensation on the evolutionary worlds.
However, in the UB quote in between these two previous quotes, (49:6.8), it implied that only those mortals, who have a “personal guardian” assigned, would proceed to a mansion world. But, in many of these quotes, presented, the interim position of “Sleeping Survivors”, is between the death of “Planetary Mortals”, which would indicate a period of time, between the next stage of “Mansion World Students.” As per the following:
(340.3) 30:4.1 While the mortal survivors of time and space are denominated ascending pilgrims when accredited for the progressive ascent to Paradise, these evolutionary creatures occupy such an important place in these narratives that we here desire to present a synopsis of the following seven stages of the ascending universe career:
(340.4) 30:4.2 1. Planetary Mortals.
(340.5) 30:4.3 2. Sleeping Survivors.
(340.6) 30:4.4 3. Mansion World Students.
(340.7) 30:4.5 4. Morontia Progressors.
(340.8) 30:4.6 5. Superuniverse Wards.
(340.9) 30:4.7 6. Havona Pilgrims.
(340.10) 30:4.8 7. Paradise Arrivals.
Where if there is any length of time, while in the “sleeping survivor” phase, of the progression, how would a persons consciousness relate to being able to “resume their lives”, especially if they were old and feeble, regardless of any assignment to another physically presumed form, which would be a seraphic host?
There are many references to mortals but, non that I am aware of, which combines the death from being a mortal in the flesh, without there being some other transformation. Therefore, it is assumed that when we die as mortals of the flesh, that there are several possibilities as to what may transition?
MidiChlorian wrote:. . . non that I am aware of, which combines the death from being a mortal in the flesh, without there being some other transformation.They tell us, “Natural, physical death is not a mortal inevitability.” (55:2:1) But some sort of death occurs, whether or not the individual life was long or short, and you can read more by following the link.MidiChlorian wrote: Where if there is any length of time, while in the “sleeping survivor” phase, of the progression, how would a persons consciousness relate to being able to “resume their lives”. . . .Resurrection is a gift. From the book and drawing on my understanding, the person’s consciousness is sleeping so to speak – the person is unconscious – and one does not experience the passage of time during the interim waiting period, whether it is a long waiting period or a short one. Upon resurrection, the person’s consciousness and personality resume in a new made-to-order form, and then the constituent factors are assembled, such as personality in the Adjuster’s custody and the immortal morontia soul in the custody of the guardian seraphim (112:3:5)P.1234 – §6 1. The fabrication of a suitable form, a morontia energy pattern, in which the new survivor can make contact with nonspiritual reality, and within which the morontia variant of the cosmic mind can be encircuited.112:5:18 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.112:5:19 3. When these prerequisites of repersonalization have been assembled, the seraphic custodian of the potentialities of the slumbering immortal soul, with the assistance of numerous cosmic personalities, bestows this morontia entity upon and in the awaiting morontia mind-body form while committing this evolutionary child of the Supreme to eternal association with the waiting Adjuster. And this completes the repersonalization, reassembly of memory, insight, and consciousness — identity.112:5:20 The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self. The phenomenon of personality is dependent on the persistence of the identity of selfhood reaction to universe environment; and this can only be effected through the medium of mind. Selfhood persists in spite of a continuous change in all the factor components of self; in the physical life the change is gradual; at death and upon repersonalization the change is sudden. The true reality of all selfhood (personality) is able to function responsively to universe conditions by virtue of the unceasing changing of its constituent parts; stagnation terminates in inevitable death. Human life is an endless change of the factors of life unified by the stability of the unchanging personality.You are not conscious, until a repersonalization takes place. You pick up over there where you left off down here. The transformations of which you ask occur within the whole and functioning individual when all your constituent and unique parts click together in a living system. (1:3:7) (48:1:6) What a gift!
Resurrection is a gift. From the book and drawing on my understanding, the person’s consciousness is sleeping so to speak – the person is unconscious – and one does not experience the passage of time during the interim waiting period, whether it is a long waiting period or a short one. Upon resurrection, the person’s consciousness and personality resume in a new made-to-order form, and then the constituent factors are assembled, such as personality in the Adjuster’s custody and the immortal morontia soul in the custody of the guardian seraphim (112:3:5)
Mara, I understand what you have presented, but there is a small detail which I have not mentioned and placed into my questions.
Primarily, regardless of “one does not experience the passage of time during the interim waiting period,” and if this is a long period, rather than short, if one awakes, so to speck, and one is able to pickup where they left off, the mansion world, where one awakes, would need to be the duplicate time and civilization from when one died. So, the main question is, how does time and space stand still, for that person awaking, if they either have not been changed in such a way as to not notice that they were in a different place? There would need to be some change, other than body, or the change in perception of the physical self, which would apply, therefore, realistically, one cannot pick up where they left off if their environment has changed and if the environment has not changed, and nothing from memory changed either, there would be some form of deception implied, or one would not know that they had died but, for those who have had a full life, with memories of being on their death bed, what future would they expect to have if something was not altered? Would these persons go back in time and perceive that they are young again, whereby they would not be able to proceed where they left off, something would need to be removed or changed?
This is why some of the wording and concepts used in the UB, seem to make sense but when one takes the application of the words to heart, something must change, therefore assuming that the Thought Adjuster retains this information, the adjuster must control any change perceived, so realistically we can not be the same, and the only element where this controlling is assigned to is the thought adjuster, where now logically is a thought controller, having direct influence, and not just a guiding influence.
Hi Midi, it’s good to see you here sharing your thoughts with us again.
Yes, as I understand it, the Though Adjuster enables us to, “start over there exactly where we left off here,” with full self awareness of the life experiences we have lived and knowledge of the people we love. The continuity of bona fide experience is something all faith sons and daughters can look forward to.
This is distinct from mortals of the Spirit Fusion series who do require assistance to re-acquaint them with the experiences of the life just lived.
Dear Forum Members, A reader friend (who will join the Forum soon) wants to hear whether others find a contradiction between these two quotes:
110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. …
107:0.7 On the evolutionary worlds, will creatures traverse three general developmental stages of being: From the arrival of the Adjuster to comparative full growth, about twenty years of age on Urantia, the Monitors are sometimes designated Thought Changers. From this time to the attainment of the age of discretion, about forty years, the Mystery Monitors are called Thought Adjusters. From the attainment of discretion to deliverance from the flesh, they are often referred to as Thought Controllers. These three phases of mortal life have no connection with the three stages of Adjuster progress in mind duplication and soul evolution.What do you think?Hi Rick. Have you given any thought to the very last sentence of the above quote where it says that the three developmental stages of being in relation to one’s Adjuster have nothing at all to do with Adjuster progress in mind duplication and soul evolution? They are telling us that the second quote is not related to the first quote at all. They are talking about two separate things all together and make a point of stating it in that last sentence. The second quote is about the personality’s relationship to the Adjuster, while the first quote is about the Adjuster’s relationship to the personality.Greetings friends! A savory topic and great posts. Like tas, I am comforted in my confusion by the universal mandate regarding all free will, including mortal free will. So, regardless of the descriptors chosen for the differentiating role of the Adjuster in mind, we can be assured that all such “changing, adjusting, and controlling” is dependent upon the free will of the mortal involved.
I agree that this changing role is an evolutionary “response” by the Adjuster to actual maturation, identity by mind with spirit, soul content and unification, and progress through the circles; and I think the ages listed are norms or means only and the transition of role is totally dependent upon the individual. Some progress sooner and some slower on all worlds….but, perhaps, especially on Urantia?
Midi – your questions bring forth many thoughts of prior and current speculation for me and, I assume, all others who wonder about life after death and what it will be like, initially and thereafter. I do think each of us will experience some immediate recognition of change and transformation in our body, mind, and environment. I don’t think the text indicates all will be exactly as before for any surviving ascender. But it is wonderful to contemplate.
Thanks to all.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.