The UB on Genuine and Personal Religious Experience

[Angela]

This is an old topic — made new again.

This topic was started by Rick in September 2009 at the old, old site of this Forum. There is great discussion (4 pages) on that old site — Here is the link: http://urantia.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/703-the-ub-on-genuine-and-personal-religious-experiences/

I will start things off anew. It is my view that our personal religious experiences have spiritual value, which is preserved, becoming part of the eternal spiritual reality. These experiences are the ‘character consequences’ of thought adjuster and free-will mind working in unison to condition personality. I would really like to know the relationship of the soul to personal religious experience.

117:5.13 (1287.4) What man himself takes with him as a personality possession are the character consequences of the experience of having used the mind and spirit circuits of the grand universe in his Paradise ascent. When man decides, and when he consummates this decision in action, man experiences, and the meanings and the values of this experience are forever a part of his eternal character on all levels, from the finite to the final. Cosmically moral and divinely spiritual character represents the creature’s capital accumulation of personal decisions which have been illuminated by sincere worship, glorified by intelligent love, and consummated in brotherly service.

Are worship, love and service all inseparable elements to personal religious experience?

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Bonita]

Angela wrote: Are worship, love and service all inseparable elements to personal religious experience?

Sounds about right to me.

2:6.9 Facing the world of personality, God is discovered to be a loving person; facing the spiritual world, he is a personal love; in religious experience he is both. Love identifies the volitional will of God. The goodness of God rests at the bottom of the divine free-willness–the universal tendency to love, show mercy, manifest patience, and minister forgiveness.

[Richard E Warren]

Angela wrote:

This is an old topic — made new again. This topic was started by Rick in September 2009 at the old, old site of this Forum. There is great discussion (4 pages) on that old site — Here is the link: http://urantia.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/703-the-ub-on-genuine-and-personal-religious-experiences/

I will start things off anew. It is my view that our personal religious experiences have spiritual value, which is preserved, becoming part of the eternal spiritual reality….

It’s a noteworthy point, Angela. The Midwayers, in the last paragraph of the UB, cite the durability of spirit values:

 …Only the spirit content of any value is imperishable…. ^{(2097.3) 196:3.35}

Two more, from UB Parts 2 & 3:

…On the mansion worlds they proclaim the great law of the conservation and dominance of goodness: No act of good is ever wholly lost; it may be long thwarted but never wholly annulled, and it is eternally potent in proportion to the divinity of its motivation…. (552:5) 48:6.7

 

…No worth-while experience ever happens in vain; no true meaning or real value ever perishes…. (1200:1) 109:6.1

 

.

Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

While the reality of genuine religious experience has sticking power into the next life and beyond, it also has benefits in this life.

p69:2 5:5.7-10  Mortal man secures three great satisfactions from religious experience, even in the days of his temporal sojourn on earth:

	1.	Intellectually he acquires the satisfactions of a more unified human consciousness.
	2.	Philosophically he enjoys the substantiation of his ideals of moral values.
	3.	Spiritually he thrives in the experience of divine companionship, in the spiritual satisfactions of true worship.

[Angela]

Thanks, Rick and Bonita. The Supreme Being is beyond me at the moment, I can only grasp bits and pieces. We all live very much in the present moment because of our time-bound linear experience. It is what keeps me sane. If I was to think too far past that my head would explode.

“Harmonious functioning of the entire personality” — intellectual, philosophical and spiritual — is an essential part of conditioning personality and soul progress. Genuine religious experience achieves unification of all elements in each action. “The parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self”.

So, if we really want to understand personal religious experience we need to understand this interaction between truth, beauty, and goodness. The three must be harmoniously united in action. Maybe we could consider discussing more than merely the stand alone elements. Has this been attempted on the forum?

Or, it may be enough that we seek by our will, to do the will of God. In that way religious experience may be synonymous with personal revelation, when the Adjuster and material mind synchronise through worship.

^{110:6.3 (1209.3)} The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self — the whole self — material, intellectual, and spiritual.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Richard E Warren]

Angela wrote:

Thanks, Rick and Bonita. The Supreme Being is beyond me at the moment, I can only grasp bits and pieces. We all live very much in the present moment because of our time-bound linear experience. It is what keeps me sane. If I was to think too far past that my head would explode. “Harmonious functioning of the entire personality” — intellectual, philosophical and spiritual — is an essential part of conditioning personality and soul progress. Genuine religious experience achieves unification of all elements in each action. “The parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self”. So, if we really want to understand personal religious experience we need to understand this interaction between truth, beauty, and goodness. The three must be harmoniously united in action. Maybe we could consider discussing more than merely the stand alone elements. Has this been attempted on the forum? Or, it may be enough that we seek by our will, to do the will of God. In that way religious experience may be synonymous with personal revelation, when the Adjuster and material mind synchronise through worship.

^{110:6.3 (1209.3)} The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self — the whole self — material, intellectual, and spiritual.

Excellent observations, Angela (beware those head explosions). About your question:

Angela wrote:

…So, if we really want to understand personal religious experience we need to understand this interaction between truth, beauty, and goodness. The three must be harmoniously united in action. Maybe we could consider discussing more than merely the stand alone elements. Has this been attempted on the forum?

If it hasn’t, it’s time, and this is the right place!

More than once TB&G are equated with love. I think of love, divine love, as truth, beauty, and goodness in motion.

…The Hebrews based their religion on goodness; the Greeks on beauty; both religions sought truth. Jesus revealed a God of love, and love is all-embracing of truth, beauty, and goodness…. (67.4) 5:4.6

 

…love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception…. (2096.5) 196:3.29

 

…To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe — and they know that God is love…. (648.3) 56:10.20

Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

I think it’s important to remember that personal religious experience is only one type of experience we humans have.  The goal is to integrate all levels of personal experience: physical, intellectual, spiritual and personal.  I alluded to this in my last post.  In terms of truth, beauty and goodness: beauty is discovered on the material level, truth on the spiritual level but understood on the intellectual level, and goodness on the level of personal religious experience.  The latter is more than spiritual, it is both spiritual and personal, two persons in a relationship.

2:6.1 In the physical universe we may see the divine beauty, in the intellectual world we may discern eternal truth, but the goodness of God is found only in the spiritual world of personal religious experience.

I think all of this can be had by the practice of the presence of God.  Although they say that beauty and truth can be appreciated without personality presence, I don’t think it actually becomes part of personality experience without it.  Goodness, on the other hand, absolutely must be personal, yet true goodness is always unconscious because it is on the soul level of existence.

So, practicing the presence of God brings all of this together in living experience. The goal of life is progressive divinity attainment, and I don’t think it’s possible unless you live with Deity at all times (born of the spirit). I’m pretty sure that’s how Jesus climbed the seven psychic circles to divinity attainment.  Also, personal religious experience may be an inner experience of a relationship with God the Father, but its validity requires expanding that same inner relationship to others, one’s siblings (brotherhood) out in the world of physical, intellectual and personal reality.

195:10.1 Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.

100:0.1 The experience of dynamic religious living transforms the mediocre individual into a personality of idealistic power. Religion ministers to the progress of all through fostering the progress of each individual, and the progress of each is augmented through the achievement of all.

[Angela]

This is a major step in clarity for me. After I read your replies I re-read Paper 56 in a new light. Divine love is the “sum total” or if you like the unifying force.  It confirms what Rick says: “I think of love, divine love, as truth, beauty, and goodness in motion.” Also what Bonita says: “So, practicing the presence of God brings all of this together in living experience.”

^{56:10.17 (647.8)} Universal beauty is the recognition of the reflection of the Isle of Paradise in the material creation, while eternal truth is the special ministry of the Paradise Sons who not only bestow themselves upon the mortal races but even pour out their Spirit of Truth upon all peoples. Divine goodness is more fully shown forth in the loving ministry of the manifold personalities of the Infinite Spirit. But love, the sum total of these three qualities, is man’s perception of God as his spirit Father.

So as Bonita says: “The goal is to integrate all levels of personal experience: physical, intellectual, spiritual and personal.” By living “with Deity at all times (born of the spirit).”

What would we do without revelation to guide and inspire “harmonious functioning of the entire personality”. Understanding personal religious experience is made much easier when it is distinguished from the other three levels of human experience in Deity.

So, if goodness is experienced “on the soul level” then perhaps we could discuss how the soul relates to personal religious experience?

^{112:0.15 (1226.3)} The Adjuster and the personality are changeless; the relationship between them (in the soul) is nothing but change, continuing evolution; and if this change (growth) ceased, the soul would cease.

^{111:3.5 (1219.4)} The mortal career, the soul’s evolution, is not so much a probation as an education. Faith in the survival of supreme values is the core of religion; genuine religious experience consists in the union of supreme values and cosmic meanings as a realization of universal reality.

^{111:3.6 (1219.5)} Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality — values — is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Bonita]

Angela wrote: So, if goodness is experienced “on the soul level” then perhaps we could discuss how the soul relates to personal religious experience?

Well for one thing, souls aren’t born perfect.  Souls are our perfecting selves and this is accomplished, in part, through the marriage of two types of personality experience: genuine material experience and genuine spiritual experience.  There are two ingredients and two beings sharing the experience: God and man.  By genuine I mean sincere and real, aligned with all levels of reality, and that’s a beautiful thing.  [Incidentally, this alignment with reality concept is provided by the cosmic mind reality-alignment gravity-impulse, aka reality response reflex or intuition, if anyone is interested.]

130:4.10 Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed mind that is conscious of knowing God; truth is an experience of the soul.  The eye of the spiritualized mind sees a world of true values, this combined with the material mind synchronized and harmonized is the world of reality of personal experience.  

The soul is the spiritualized mind.  It is the mind provided by the Holy Spirit where the Adjuster does the spiritizing of thought and presents those thoughts to the Spirit of Truth who reveals them to the material mind in a way that can be chosen by the personality to act upon, thus feeding the material mind with the material it needs to make decisions worthy of soul growth.  It’s a beautiful thing, and except for the decision part, the process itself is mostly unconscious.  All we can do is discover, recognize interpret and choose, or make decisions, decisions and more decisions. By decision I mean both the decision to organize and reflect on discovered worthwhile thoughts (from the spirits of worship and wisdom) as well as the decision to act upon the spiritized thoughts from the soul once they are recognized and interpreted.

101:6.7 Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth—universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds.

Note that it is stated in the last quote that the prerequisite for admission to the morontia worlds is a righteous character.  The soul is man’s righteous character and the whole quote explains how it’s developed.  We are born with natural character traits but we decide to grow our divine character, and that’s the soul. Spiritualized thoughts chosen by personality to become part of its identity, its reality, by living them in natural life.  It’s a beautiful thing.  It’s what Jesus did when he walked the earth and now he does it again by illuminating the way to live the truth we experience in our souls.

[Angela]

I need to transfer the process in your post to a flow chart, Bonita, so as to better commit the process to memory. I must be making progress — I totally understood what you meant by “cosmic mind reality-alignment gravity-impulse”.

When I viewed Rick’s video link to the BBC documentary ‘Why Beauty Matters’, (great post by the way) I was struck by the possibilities for personal religious experience. I think artists who produce portraits that depict and affirm fraternal love are in the zone. As are architects who design beautiful structures that inspire wonder. When you can’t help but feel good in the space. There was a portrait depicted of a winkled elderly woman with a serene expression. The painter must have had her ‘value’ in mind when he gave her that beautiful expression, a value unconsciously felt in his soul. The soul-conscious painter depicting the soul-conscious woman — to be given cosmic (mind) meaning and to be appreciated by the soul-conscious art enthusiasts throughout the years to come.

We can consciously condition our “spiritual reflex”.

^{100:1.8 (1095.3)} Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

I would appreciate some guidance in my understanding of the passage below — on the difference between the subconscious level and superconsciousness.

^{100:1.9 (1095.4)} The unconscious nature of religious growth does not, however, signify that it is an activity functioning in the supposed subconscious realms of human intellect; rather does it signify creative activities in the superconscious levels of mortal mind. The experience of the realization of the reality of unconscious religious growth is the one positive proof of the functional existence of the superconsciousness.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Bonita]

Angela wrote: I must be making progress — I totally understood what you meant by “cosmic mind reality-alignment gravity-impulse”.

Whoa! I’m stoked.  You’re the only person on this forum who admits to understanding what I’m talking about when it comes to the cosmic mind and those pesky reflexes.  That’s really cool.

Angela wrote: I would appreciate some guidance in my understanding of the passage below — on the difference between the subconscious level and superconsciousness. 100:1.9 (1095.4) The unconscious nature of religious growth does not, however, signify that it is an activity functioning in the supposed subconscious realms of human intellect; rather does it signify creative activities in the superconscious levels of mortal mind. The experience of the realization of the reality of unconscious religious growth is the one positive proof of the functional existence of the superconsciousness.

Are you sure you want me to get started on this?  Do you have your spread sheet ready?  Actually, it’s really very basic.  Our minds have two parts: conscious and unconscious.  The unconscious part of our minds also has two parts: subconscious and superconscious.  The subconscious is where we store material information for future use; the superconscious is where we store spiritual information for future use.  Access to either the sub- or super- conscious levels is possible, but beyond conscious levels there lies mystery (actually sometimes dragons too, in the subconscious) That’s it in a nutshell.

91:7.4  The human mind may perform in response to so-called inspiration when it is sensitive either to the uprisings of the subconscious or to the stimulus of the superconscious. In either case it appears to the individual that such augmentations of the content of consciousness are more or less foreign.

Religious growth is spiritual growth, therefore connected to the unconscious superconscious.  Religious growth cannot come from the subconscious because it is material, not spiritual.  However, the unconscious subconscious level does have information useful to the material life, material growth.  All growth is unconscious.  And that’s the abridged version.  If you want me to elaborate, I can write volumes, but you probably already have access to sleeping pills.

100:3.7  Man cannot cause growth, but he can supply favorable conditions. Growth is always unconscious, be it physical, intellectual, or spiritual.

 

 

[Richard E Warren]

Not to interrupt the beautiful flow here, Angela mentioned flow charts. Try googling ‘urantia book flow chart’. Readers have been busy!

Richard E Warren

[Anonymous]

Angela wrote:

I would appreciate some guidance in my understanding of the passage below — on the difference between the subconscious level and superconsciousness.

100:1.9 (1095.4) The unconscious nature of religious growth does not, however, signify that it is an activity functioning in the supposed subconscious realms of human intellect; rather does it signify creative activities in the superconscious levels of mortal mind. The experience of the realization of the reality of unconscious religious growth is the one positive proof of the functional existence of the superconsciousness.

First of all it states that the “unconscious” is in reference to “growth” whereby this growth is or should be understood in the conscious mind when one has been shown proof of, that the “superconscious” mind has been accessed.  At this time, having realized the access to the superconscious mind, is no longer unconscious because the Thought Adjusters domain (superconscious) has been verified or joined by the conscious mind.

Superconsciousness is not located in the unconscious mind, it is merely that one is unconscious of its “functional existence” until recognized by the conscious mind.  Once recognized, it is no longer an “unconscious” reality but can be shifted to the subconscious union with the conscious.  The superconscious mind can appear to be a separate voice, so to speak, especially when the conscious mind is or has been infiltrated via an interactive cosmic force, attempting to supersede conscious activity, in order to instill dominating influence on the conscious mind.  This sometimes occurs at a weak point where the conscious becomes unbalanced with illogical subconscious reality expressions.  When this type of conflict occurs, and there is an unresolvable struggle, the superconscious mind can intervene as a separate voice, attempting to clarify the path where which the conscious should bend too, presenting a rational reasoning as to what is occurring at that time.  Regardless of the overall outcome, the conscious mind has made contact, realizing that superconscious exists and is no longer unconscious.  This is the growth which is mentioned above, where it has become a part of one’s religious experience, presenting proof of the spiritual existence of the morontial soul.   Thereby installing the path for the union of a new spiritualized mind.

(1191.5) 108:5.4 Your Adjuster is the potential of your new and next order of existence, the advance bestowal of your eternal sonship with God. By and with the consent of your will, the Adjuster has the power to subject the creature trends of the material mind to the transforming actions of the motivations and purposes of the emerging morontial soul.

(1191.6) 108:5.5 The Mystery Monitors are not thought helpers; they are thought adjusters. They labor with the material mind for the purpose of constructing, by adjustment and spiritualization, a new mind for the new worlds and the new name of your future career. Their mission chiefly concerns the future life, not this life. They are called heavenly helpers, not earthly helpers. They are not interested in making the mortal career easy; rather are they concerned in making your life reasonably difficult and rugged, so that decisions will be stimulated and multiplied. The presence of a great Thought Adjuster does not bestow ease of living and freedom from strenuous thinking, but such a divine gift should confer a sublime peace of mind and a superb tranquillity of spirit.

 

(1192.3) 108:5.8 The Thought Adjusters would like to change your feelings of fear to convictions of love and confidence; but they cannot mechanically and arbitrarily do such things; that is your task. In executing those decisions which deliver you from the fetters of fear, you literally supply the psychic fulcrum on which the Adjuster may subsequently apply a spiritual lever of uplifting and advancing illumination.

(1192.4) 108:5.9 When it comes to the sharp and well-defined conflicts between the higher and lower tendencies of the races, between what really is right or wrong (not merely what you may call right and wrong), you can depend upon it that the Adjuster will always participate in some definite and active manner in such experiences. The fact that such Adjuster activity may be unconscious to the human partner does not in the least detract from its value and reality.

(1192.5) 108:5.10 If you have a personal guardian of destiny and should fail of survival, that guardian angel must be adjudicated in order to receive vindication as to the faithful execution of her trust. But Thought Adjusters are not thus subjected to examination when their subjects fail to survive. We all know that, while an angel might possibly fall short of the perfection of ministry, Thought Adjusters work in the manner of Paradise perfection; their ministry is characterized by a flawless technique which is beyond the possibility of criticism by any being outside of Divinington. You have perfect guides; therefore is the goal of perfection certainly attainable.

[Angela]

 

Bonita wrote:

Religious growth cannot come from the subconscious because it is material, not spiritual.

Alright so religious growth takes place in the superconscious. Is this the same as being “conscious of the meaning of meanings” and being “self-conscious of insight”? And does superconsciousness give us “enhancement of insights, elevation of ideals, and settledness of goals”?

^{160:1.5 (1773.2)} Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings — he is self-conscious of insight.

^{160:1.15 (1775.1)} My philosophy gave me the urge to search for the realities of true attainment, the goal of maturity. But my urge was impotent; my search lacked driving power; my quest suffered from the absence of certainty of directionization. And these deficiencies have been abundantly supplied by this new gospel of Jesus, with its enhancement of insights, elevation of ideals, and settledness of goals. Without doubts and misgivings I can now wholeheartedly enter upon the eternal venture.

MidiChlorian wrote:

Regardless of the overall outcome, the conscious mind has made contact, realizing that superconscious exists and is no longer unconscious.  This is the growth which is mentioned above, where it has become a part of one’s religious experience, presenting proof of the spiritual existence of the morontial soul.

Just to clarify, soul-consciousness leads to mind-conscious realisation of the meaning of meanings or that superior comprehension of values. The result is genuine religious experience of supernal ideals?

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Angela]

Rick Warren wrote:

Not to interrupt the beautiful flow here, Angela mentioned flow charts. Try googling ‘urantia book flow chart’. Readers have been busy!

Is this a reliable site for TUB flow charts, Rick?

http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/studyaids.htm

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

[Author]

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