-
Posts
-
Quote 103:9.5 states the ideal of religious philosophy takes salvation for granted. Kinda takes the punch out of the original sin argument doesn’t it? It also means that those who claim only a few survive don’t espouse an ideal of religious philosophy, just a plain old ordinary, concrete idea of religious philosophy.
So then . . . what is this “philosophic objectification of idealistic desire” all about?
Quote 103:9.5 states the ideal of religious philosophy takes salvation for granted. Kinda takes the punch out of the original sin argument doesn’t it? It also means that those who claim only a few survive don’t espouse an ideal of religious philosophy, just a plain old ordinary, concrete idea of religious philosophy.
So then . . . what is this “philosophic objectification of idealistic desire” all about?
103:9.5 (1141.3) Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes. Such a genuine religious experience far transcends the philosophic objectification of idealistic desire; it actually takes salvation for granted and concerns itself only with learning and doing the will of the Father in Paradise. The earmarks of such a religion are: faith in a supreme Deity, hope of eternal survival, and love, especially of one’s fellows.
Isn’t philosophy a perspective of reality or the subjective lens through which we view it? There is a metaphysical component that is or may be delivered by subjective idealisms that is not experiential or genuine or certain as is faith and truth. What is “philosophic objectification”? and what is “idealistic desire”? compared to “the highest realms of universe objective reality”?
How much do we truly “depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father” in our daily life? What is our certainty of that love and how does it affect us in our daily life? For such certainty of such love changes us and delivers the earmarks noted and the fruits of the Spirit.
G’day everyone,
Very interesting reading yours posts.
Race is a protected characteristic that refers to an individual’s cultural, color, nationality and ethnic or geographic origins.
Genetic diversity has characterized human survival.
Humans are humans, we are all one species. Racials’s differences wouldn’t be harmonize solely by humans will. Remember unity, not uniformity. If society created the problem, society has to take it on itself to fix it.
A person’s race must be related to intellectual, spiritual, and moral qualities that they inherited.
84:8.3 (942.4) The violet race introduced a new and only imperfectly realized characteristic into the experience of humankind—the play instinct coupled with the sense of humor.
The social classification will attribute and recognize a particularity a sense of humour to Britishs.
The scientific classification of human racial types is based on certain combinations of fixed, inherited, as far as possible measurable and visually identifiable traits.
Originally, we were used to delineate biological races.
Races are an intended factor to eventually blended in on single race.
Traits of characters if not unified, harmonized are definitely corrected, enhanced in mansions worlds.
DNA’s clusters aren’t invariant, constant, fix, stable aggregates.
As an example; Cain as a 50% base heredity had came to asked for spiritual help and guidance, and when he honestly sought divine assistance, an Adjuster indwelt him. 76:2.8
Our eldery brother show us the way in 156:5.5.
In 91:6.2 through spirituals influences, spiritual’s search, character infaillibly change.
. . . what is “idealistic desire”? . . .
I thought that had to do with hunger for perfection aroused by the Thought Adjuster within the soul (102:1.6). I think the word idealistic has to do with perfection and the word desire has to do with the inborn drive to become perfected.
(737.2) 65:6.2 There is original endowment of adaptation in living things and beings. In every living plant or animal cell, in every living organism — material or spiritual — there is an insatiable craving for the attainment of ever-increasing perfection of environmental adjustment, organismal adaptation, and augmented life realization. These interminable efforts of all living things evidence the existence within them of an innate striving for perfection.
Wouldn’t such an inborn desire or striving be an entirely subjective experience, an experience totally dependent upon the individual’s inner perspective and feelings which can be too deep for words? The thing that makes such an inner experience objectively real is the intimate personality-to-personality contact of creature and Creator through the Father’s personality circuit in the soul. Otherwise, all attempts to objectify that experience are left to the philosophic realm, the intervening domain where the human intellect strives to make sense of it.
What is “philosophic objectification”?
Here’s my spin on it: This is what happens when the human mind takes a transcendent religious experience, which “. . . is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon,” and attempts to objectify it, or make sense of it in concrete, materially comprehensible philosophical terms. I think this is where metaphysics creeps in. Yet despite all the errors of philosophical objectification, quote 103:9.5 tells us that the soul continues to desire and strive perfection through faith-trust in its perceptible ideal – the living God within it. This eternal relationship, personality-to-personality, is what the soul depends upon, ” . . . the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes.” [Note the reference to Father, a person, and the source of the personality circuit.]
And the soul will do this in and of itself. It will embark on its eternal journey of idealistic desire in the sole company of TRUTH (103:9.7), leaving behind the objectifying, philosophical material mind which continuously wrestles with this level of reality because it is lacking in mota, or morontia sensitivity. Truth is a morontia reality only perceived in the soul. (130:4.10) And the Spirit of Truth, who just happens to be a person, is also the spirit of idealistic beauty.
155:6.11 The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.
103:9.6 (1141.4) When theology masters religion, religion dies; it becomes a doctrine instead of a life. The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. Theology constitutes the religious effort to define, clarify, expound, and justify the experiential claims of religion, which, in the last analysis, can be validated only by living faith. In the higher philosophy of the universe, wisdom, like reason, becomes allied to faith. Reason, wisdom, and faith are man’s highest human attainments. Reason introduces man to the world of facts, to things; wisdom introduces him to a world of truth, to relationships; faith initiates him into a world of divinity, spiritual experience.
103:9.7 (1141.5) Faith most willingly carries reason along as far as reason can go and then goes on with wisdom to the full philosophic limit; and then it dares to launch out upon the limitless and never-ending universe journey in the sole company of TRUTH.
Me here: I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom. To do or say exactly the same thing over and over in exactly the same circumstances (theology) does not rely upon reason or thinking and is not progressive and cannot deliver wisdom or actual religious experience…the very purpose and goal of time and life in time….the perfecting of imperfection requires adjustments and responsiveness to outcomes by experience which theologies do not provide for or encourage. Jesus was so spontaneous and reflexive in his religious responses to circumstance and situation. It is our motives and intentions which deliver such a personalized response, not rigid theologies and predetermined actions or reactions.
196:0.4 In the Master’s life on Urantia, this and all other worlds of the local creation discover a new and higher type of religion, religion based on personal spiritual relations with the Universal Father and wholly validated by the supreme authority of genuine personal experience. This living faith of Jesus was more than an intellectual reflection, and it was not a mystic meditation.
196:0.5 Theology may fix, formulate, define, and dogmatize faith, but in the human life of Jesus faith was personal, living, original, spontaneous, and purely spiritual. This faith was not reverence for tradition nor a mere intellectual belief which he held as a sacred creed, but rather a sublime experience and a profound conviction which securely held him. His faith was so real and all-encompassing that it absolutely swept away any spiritual doubts and effectively destroyed every conflicting desire. Nothing was able to tear him away from the spiritual anchorage of this fervent, sublime, and undaunted faith. Even in the face of apparent defeat or in the throes of disappointment and threatening despair, he calmly stood in the divine presence free from fear and fully conscious of spiritual invincibility. Jesus enjoyed the invigorating assurance of the possession of unflinching faith, and in each of life’s trying situations he unfailingly exhibited an unquestioning loyalty to the Father’s will. And this superb faith was undaunted even by the cruel and crushing threat of an ignominious death.
Bradly wrote
“I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom.”
From 103:9.6,
“The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. […]“
Maybe we can distinguish between “initial mission“, and “actual potential” of theology? Historically, theology has stumbled along as “dogma to be defended”. In the future, a more agile version of theology might serve truly to facilitate and foster not only that “intellectual reflection” upon, but also the sharing of, our personal spiritual experience?
Nigel
Doesn’t TUB define theology as the psychology of religion?
(69.1) 5:5.6 Religious experience, being essentially spiritual, can never be fully understood by the material mind; hence the function of theology, the psychology of religion.
It also tells us that theology is the study of your own religion whereas the study of other people’s religion is called psychology.
(1135.3) 103:6.1 Theology is the study of the actions and reactions of the human spirit; it can never become a science since it must always be combined more or less with psychology in its personal expression and with philosophy in its systematic portrayal. Theology is always the study of your religion; the study of another’s religion is psychology.
I think it’s a bit confusing. TUB also tells us that the science of psychology has weakened religions dependent upon psychological poisons.
(1090.4) 99:4.8 Man’s greatest spiritual jeopardy consists in partial progress, the predicament of unfinished growth: forsaking the evolutionary religions of fear without immediately grasping the revelatory religion of love. Modern science, particularly psychology, has weakened only those religions which are so largely dependent upon fear, superstition, and emotion.
I agree that theology (the study of my own religion) is an evolutionary process. It grows and progresses, and I suppose the same thing happens with everyone, but some fixate at a certain phase. TUB describes four phases in the evolution of a religious philosophy of living, which I think is the same as the mission of theology: ” . . . to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience.”
101:7.4 . . . There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.
Bradly wrote
“I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom.”
From 103:9.6,
“The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. […]“
Maybe we can distinguish between “initial mission“, and “actual potential” of theology? Historically, theology has stumbled along as “dogma to be defended”. In the future, a more agile version of theology might serve truly to facilitate and foster not only that “intellectual reflection” upon, but also the sharing of, our personal spiritual experience? Nigel
Thanks Nigel…yes, I now notice the text says theology “may” fix and dogmatize, not that it inherently or ideally does so. A “more agile version” certainly offers greater potential!
Thanks Bonita for the quotes which also enlarge the concept and functions of theology! My theology is the study of my religion, not its definition or limits.
In that case, these study groups on Personal Religion – Papers 100-103 – have indeed prompted such study of my own and consideration on how to improve personal practices to provide the soil and opportunity for more growth and a stronger attachment of my branch to the vine to ever grow in faith!
The objective is to not let theology become a simple belief or creed that becomes an unyielding prejudice and obstacle to growth. Theology should be as alive and formative as the religious experience and our spiritization itself!
Theology should be as alive and formative as the religious experience and our spiritization itself!
I would say that’s correct since theology is defined as an attempt to define God. (90:5.7) If theology concerns your own personal religion, then your personal definition of God will change as you get to know him and become more like him.
Socialized theology tends to get mired in strict definitions of God, which is where creeds and dogma come from. That’s why I’m so adamantly against churchification of the Revelation. Socializing one’s own theology should be about discovering the psychology, or psychic environment, of other religionists – which is the same as getting to know other humans and how they think. “Human things must be known in order to be loved”, a fact we’re told is literally true. Another fact we’re told is literally true is that “no man lives by himself”. Socializing the personality is the highest form of personality unification. (56:10.14)
So there is the challenge – how to socialize your own private theology without dogmatizing it. Folks that go about proselytizing their own theology because they feel certain that it’s true often forget the simple fact that what is true for them may not be true for others. An honest person would go about asking about others’ theologies, their psychologies, rather than trying to sell their own. I say if you’re trying to sell your own theology to others, then you’re probably not very secure about it. Chances are you’re looking for verification instead – “Look at me, I’ve found the answer . . . you agree right?” Or, “I know I’ve found the answer and you should be ashamed of yourself if you don’t agree.” Seen it both ways depending upon the ego involved.
That’s not to say if someone asks you to explain your own personal theology that you shouldn’t wax poetic about it. After all, if it’s something of utmost importance and value to you, then you’ll be enthusiastic about sharing it. But then it would have that attractive fragrance TUB talks about.
99:4.1 Genuine religion renders the religionist socially fragrant and creates insights into human fellowship.
Racials’s differences wouldn’t be harmonize solely by humans will.
I agree. The Revelation tells us that racial harmony, or social brotherhood, is not natural among humans. It’s something that must evolve from experience, which is one reason why we have different races in the first place. In fact, racial harmony is only possible with celestial help, which is why we have the ministry of The Spirits of Brotherhood. (39:5.4)
(1573.5) 140:5.3 Jesus did not expect his followers to achieve an impossible manifestation of brotherly love, but he did expect them to so strive to be like God — to be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect — that they could begin to look upon man as God looks upon his creatures and therefore could begin to love men as God loves them — to show forth the beginnings of a fatherly affection.
A person’s race must be related to intellectual, spiritual, and moral qualities that they inherited.
Yes, I agree. A person’s character is inherited, which includes psychic and moral qualities as well as the rational and spiritual inclinations of the human intellect.
As an example; Cain as a 50% base heredity had came to asked for spiritual help and guidance, and when he honestly sought divine assistance, an Adjuster indwelt him. 76:2.8
I think it was the better half of Cain’s heredity that led him to sincerely seek for divine assistance. His 50% base inheritance always disdained his father’s religion. His better half won, and that’s how it always works in the universe. Spirit triumphs when given a chance and that’s because it’s more real. Unreal things don’t work no matter how hard you try, which is why life in Realville is so rewarding – where the yoke is easy and the burdens light.
103:9.8 (1141.6) Science (knowledge) is founded on the inherent (adjutant spirit) assumption that reason is valid, that the universe can be comprehended. Philosophy (co-ordinate comprehension) is founded on the inherent (spirit of wisdom) assumption that wisdom is valid, that the material universe can be co-ordinated with the spiritual. Religion (the truth of personal spiritual experience) is founded on the inherent (Thought Adjuster) assumption that faith is valid, that God can be known and attained.
103:9.9 (1141.7) The full realization of the reality of mortal life consists in a progressive willingness to believe these assumptions of reason, wisdom, and faith. Such a life is one motivated by truth and dominated by love; and these are the ideals of objective cosmic reality whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.
Would someone please clarify, again, the definition of metaphysics and its relationship to “co-ordinate comprehension” (philosophy)? Is metaphysics one of “these assumptions of reason….”?
Again, 9.9 above indicates that experiential wisdom results in greater and greater objectivity and less and less subjectivity regarding our perspective and knowledge of universe reality…”the ideals of objective cosmic reality”.
Does “full realization of the reality of mortal life” mean conquest/progress of the 7 Psychic Circles?
When it says “…whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.”…I presume that means to mortals living still upon their material worlds of origin? I mean, mota and our morontial education and journey to Paradise and fusion with our Adjuster should provide a material or factual demonstration of objective reality, right?
Thanks everyone for such illuminating commentary and discussion.
In a nutshell, human metaphysics is what happens when philosophy takes a train ride out of Realville.
There are only three levels of reality available to finite beings: science, philosophy and religion (causation, duty, worship). Metaphysics is what happens when the reality reflex response doesn’t ping because the philosopher has gone off the rails in search of figment (as Nigel likes to call it).
Is metaphysics one of “these assumptions of reason….”?
No.
The assumptions of reason have to do with material facts, science or causation. It’s a level of fact-consciousness provided by the lower adjutants. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.
The assumptions of faith have to do with spirit, value or worship. It’s a level of spirit-consciousness provided by the Adjuster, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.
The assumptions of wisdom have to do with meanings, philosophy or duty. It’s a level of coordinate-consciousness provided by the two higher adjutants. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.
These are the three levels of reality we finite beings are capable of recognizing. The crucial information is that philosophy is the level of reality which coordinates both the assumptions of reason and the assumptions of faith. If both the assumptions of reason and the assumptions of faith are recognized as real, then philosophy has the moral duty to coordinate them both into something that is also real, that can be acted out in real life.
Metaphysics either fails to do that entirely, or it may only partially coordinate the two realities. Partial coordination is incomplete, imperfect and therefore evil, but it is not necessarily sin. Being confused is an expected byproduct of evolution. Working diligently and sincerely to become unconfused is the accepted response. Revelation is God’s answer to the dilemma, both epochal revelation and self-revelation (or auto-revelation).
Does “full realization of the reality of mortal life” mean conquest/progress of the 7 Psychic Circles?
The quote is referring to the entire mortal life and its progression. We never fully realize all the reality there is to realize. I don’t think the quote uses the word full to mean final and total realization of reality. Instead, I think of it more as the fullness of one’s capacity, where capacity is ever growing.
I think the second sentence of the quote is more revealing. “Such a life is one motivated by truth and dominated by love; and these are the ideals of objective cosmic reality whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.” This tells us that truth and love are just as objectively real as material reality which we can touch, feel and interact with in a physical manner. The objective validity of these ideals becomes more apparent to us as our personalities become more real, and that is the purpose of the psychic circles. Self-revelation and personality realization is the product of our labor with our psychic conundrums provided there is willingness to believe (and perceive) the three assumptions of reality.
I think it’s curious they use the word assumption, but I think they are trying to say that the proof we crave is not always tangible. Mathematical formulas don’t provide the answers for everything. We have to be willing to trust the reality reflexes of the cosmic mind and accept with confidence the feeling of reality even if it can’t be proven. The only proof we have is that it works, it’s stable, there are no loose parts dangling due to an improper fit. Dangling parts are metaphysical parts. Meta- has to do with position and metaphysics is physics misplaced. It’s what happens when philosophy attempts to apply the rules of the physical world in its duty to coordinate material and spiritual reality. And that comes from a lack of perception of morontia reality, which is why we need revelation in the morontia soul.
Hope this makes sense.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.